8 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

TBF we've been saying for years that we need to have a number one target and go for them, not just settle for number two or three. That's why we ended up with so many Zappacosta's and Drinkwater's over the years. As a player that'll last us a decade i'd rather us just cough up the money then never deal with Brighton again.

Liverpool had a similar situation with Southampton for VVD for what everyone said was far too much money but going all out paid dividends in the end. 

What we've also been saying for years is that we need to stop wasting huge money on expensive players who usually don't work out, and instead find the bargains that other clubs have been signing ... getting the likes of Caicedo for the £4m Brighton paid, a "Mitoma" for £3m, Cucurella for £18m not £56m ... etc etc.

On here, we are all mostly living off what we read about transfers on Newsnow Chelsea and those journos/sites are completely wrong most of the time, and have no better sources than we do. Most of our recent signings have been well under the radar. Who had any idea we were signing Jackson before it happened ?

I think a bit of trust in Winstanley and Stewart is in order. 

59 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I personally don't think Caicedo is worth close to 100m, if we are willing to go up to 100, I rather get somebody like rice. 

People said VVD wasn't worth £75m tbf.

55 minutes ago, Remodez said:

With all due respect, that midfield 5 looks awful.

I don't believe we will sign Caicedo and we shouldn't for the price being quoted. Even if we did, we would still need to have Conor in the team because one of Santos or Casadei should be sent out on loan. Most likely Santos. 

All those players are competing for a spot in the pivot with Enzo/Caicedo playing 95% of the games, Gallagher isn't really suited to that role. Nkunku is going to play as the 10 most games with Chukwuemeka as backup. 

51 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

What we've also been saying for years is that we need to stop wasting huge money on expensive players who usually don't work out, and instead find the bargains that other clubs have been signing ... getting the likes of Caicedo for the £4m Brighton paid, a "Mitoma" for £3m, Cucurella for £18m not £56m ... etc etc.

On here, we are all mostly living off what we read about transfers on Newsnow Chelsea and those journos/sites are completely wrong most of the time, and have no better sources than we do. Most of our recent signings have been well under the radar. Who had any idea we were signing Jackson before it happened ?

I think a bit of trust in Winstanley and Stewart is in order. 

We've signed Santos/Casadei/Chukwuemeka and we all agree we don't want to go into the season with those starting though, they're backup with potential to grow into £50m+ players. We've got the bargains and the club have identified Caicedo as the world class player. He's coming with more experience than Enzo did and he worked perfectly. 

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

We are going to approach 2017 territory fast as far as i'm concerned. 

Not quite, as unlike then we have a manager who will atleast respect the club enough to carry on doing his job to the best of his ability instead of chucking it in and acting like a 10 year old.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not quite, as unlike then we have a manager who will atleast respect the club enough to carry on doing his job to the best of his ability instead of chucking it in and acting like a 10 year old.

Give it some time and you never know.

He's already complaining publically basically over the fact that we've signed none of his targets. Also threw Levy under the bus in public while managing Tottenham so he's got it in him.

The pressure isn't on yet but I am not so sure he wouldn't crack if Enzo gets injured lets say and Liverpool & West Ham hammer us when we have to play Santos & Casadei in the pivot in the Premier League.

 

Edited July 25, 20232 yr by OriginalS

4 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Give it some time and you never know.

He's already complaining publically basically over the fact that we've signed none of his targets. Also threw Levy under the bus in public while managing Tottenham so he's got it in him.

The pressure isn't on yet but I am not so sure he wouldn't crack if Enzo gets injured lets say and Liverpool & West Ham hammer us when we have to play Santos & Casadei in the pivot in the Premier League.

 

He did, but he also kept Spurs highly competitive for quite some time despite Levy's 'ways'.

Infact as late as 18/19 he had them challenging THOSE City and Liverpool sides at the half way point until the lack of funding finally caught up with them, and even after that he squeezed a UCL final out of them.

58 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

People said VVD wasn't worth £75m tbf.

All those players are competing for a spot in the pivot with Enzo/Caicedo playing 95% of the games, Gallagher isn't really suited to that role. Nkunku is going to play as the 10 most games with Chukwuemeka as backup. 

At least VVD had more than 1 year of top flight experience.

One injury to either Enzo and Caicedo and we have to rely on inexperienced youth instead of Conor. He may not be suited to the role but I trust him to perform it to a better standard than Santos or Caicedo. Also Pochettino also runs a 433, it's not hard to make a slight change to the 4231 to fit Conor in if required to do so. 

34 minutes ago, Remodez said:

At least VVD had more than 1 year of top flight experience.

One injury to either Enzo and Caicedo and we have to rely on inexperienced youth instead of Conor. He may not be suited to the role but I trust him to perform it to a better standard than Santos or Caicedo. Also Pochettino also runs a 433, it's not hard to make a slight change to the 4231 to fit Conor in if required to do so. 

VVD had two and a half years of top flight football, Caicedo currently has one and a half. 27 games to be precise, hardly a massive difference between the two. 

I actually think Chukwuemeka and Casadei have looked better than Gallagher so far in pre-season. Andrey obviously playing a lot deeper which Conor can't do.

13 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

VVD had two and a half years of top flight football, Caicedo currently has one and a half. 27 games to be precise, hardly a massive difference between the two. 

I actually think Chukwuemeka and Casadei have looked better than Gallagher so far in pre-season. Andrey obviously playing a lot deeper which Conor can't do.

Even if you don't rate the Scottish league or don't think it's better than Belgium, he still had 2 years of European football to his name v top teams like Barcelona prior to his move to Southampton. So that's 4 years compared to 1. I would class that as a massive difference. 

It's great they are performing well but doesn't change the fact that they lack critical experience. Santos should be loaned out, we should not keep all 3 of them. I would gladly have Chuk and Casadei on the bench as rotation options in cup games or to bring on when we are already winning but it is no substitute for experience and we would be taking an unnecessary risk, especially when we need to be pushing for top 4 ideally. 

17 minutes ago, Remodez said:

Even if you don't rate the Scottish league or don't think it's better than Belgium, he still had 2 years of European football to his name v top teams like Barcelona prior to his move to Southampton. So that's 4 years compared to 1. I would class that as a massive difference. 

It's great they are performing well but doesn't change the fact that they lack critical experience. Santos should be loaned out, we should not keep all 3 of them. I would gladly have Chuk and Casadei on the bench as rotation options in cup games or to bring on when we are already winning but it is no substitute for experience and we would be taking an unnecessary risk, especially when we need to be pushing for top 4 ideally. 

So if you're using CL games at Celtic i'm assuming we can use Copa Libertardes games that Caicedo played against Brazilian teams etc? Its also not 4 years for VVD as the vast majority of those games are in the Scottish division which is ranked lower than the Belgium league in UEFA's coefficient. So no, not a massive difference. 

But Gallagher isn't good enough to play in the pivot, he'd be rotation further up field. Santos and Chuk are both good profiles for how Pochettino wants to play. Gallagher, sadly lacks the ability to take a ball cleanly on a half turn and progress it. Good gritty player to run about and get on the end of moves, but he's not helping with the team structure or patterns of play. Gallagher is as much of a risk next season as the youngsters. 

Think it would be a huge mistake to let Gallagher go. I understand why he isn't everyone's cup of tea but he has come through the ranks and has PL experience and we need to balance the squad and although he lacks in some areas, he does have his strengths and doesn't hide like some players.

Last season or two I moaned that we had too many squad players - players like RLC, Jorginho, Kovacic Mount etc, who weren't superstars but were handy squad players but we were overloaded with them. We now have more quality but we need players like Gallagher to balance things up and I would expect him to get plenty of minutes as long as he does well and he's more of a goal threat than any of the ones we let go (with the possible exception of Mount).

I'd rather we have kept RLC than Gallagher as a squad player tbh

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

So if you're using CL games at Celtic i'm assuming we can use Copa Libertardes games that Caicedo played against Brazilian teams etc? Its also not 4 years for VVD as the vast majority of those games are in the Scottish division which is ranked lower than the Belgium league in UEFA's coefficient. So no, not a massive difference. 

But Gallagher isn't good enough to play in the pivot, he'd be rotation further up field. Santos and Chuk are both good profiles for how Pochettino wants to play. Gallagher, sadly lacks the ability to take a ball cleanly on a half turn and progress it. Good gritty player to run about and get on the end of moves, but he's not helping with the team structure or patterns of play. Gallagher is as much of a risk next season as the youngsters. 

I mean, we can if you want but it was one year and like 2 or 3 games from what I can find online so it's not really worth considering. I also think we can both agree there's a massive difference in terms of quality going up against Barcelona versus Fluminese? Regarding the rankings, I'm pretty sure Scotland was higher ranked than Belguim at the time or at the very least even and only tanked in rankings during to the Rangers situation. 

I agree Conor doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for that role (I don't recall him playing too many games there under Potter to say for certain to be honest, could have just been his tactics) and he is also a risk, he's just significantly less of a risk than Santos and Chuk. It's not too hard to make a slight tweak to a 4231 to make it a 433 which allows Conor to get forward, I expect Pochettino to make changes as and when required. I highly doubt he is going to run a rigid 4231 all season, he's not that type of manager from what I've seen. 

When 18 year olds Santos and Casadei are playing one-two intricate passes to beat a press, or when Carney has the perfect first touch and body faint to lose his marker from deep, it raises justifiable concerns on what the hell Gallagher can offer on a technical level compared to these three. Experience means nothing if the right profile isn't there. As @RIP Mourinho alluded to, Gallagher at this point in time is a square peg in a round hole, and looks lost in midfield when more technical players are around him. His only benefit I see, and what I've only seen since he's been here, is being a body in the box for a late run delivery. 

Again, Havertz, Mount, Gallagher, Kovacic, etc are all good players individually. But collectively, we were an imbalance mess. I am not surprised we are selling them and hitting the restart button. 

 

16 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I mean, we can if you want but it was one year and like 2 or 3 games from what I can find online so it's not really worth considering. I also think we can both agree there's a massive difference in terms of quality going up against Barcelona versus Fluminese? Regarding the rankings, I'm pretty sure Scotland was higher ranked than Belguim at the time or at the very least even and only tanked in rankings during to the Rangers situation. 

I agree Conor doesn't seem to be a perfect fit for that role (I don't recall him playing too many games there under Potter to say for certain to be honest, could have just been his tactics) and he is also a risk, he's just significantly less of a risk than Santos and Chuk. It's not too hard to make a slight tweak to a 4231 to make it a 433 which allows Conor to get forward, I expect Pochettino to make changes as and when required. I highly doubt he is going to run a rigid 4231 all season, he's not that type of manager from what I've seen. 

Why on earth would you change a working formation just to accommodate an average midfielder like Conor Gallagher ? That makes no sense whatsoever !

9 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Why on earth would you change a working formation just to accommodate an average midfielder like Conor Gallagher ? That makes no sense whatsoever !

The 4231's not been tested yet either.

Scoring goals is fun but some are getting a bit overenthusiastic about pre-season here. I truly believe this squad will be completely found out in the Premier League unless we bring in quality players.

And yes, "be positive, have some faith, trust Winstanley" is all well and good but whoever is saying that also said the same thing for bloody Graham Potter and we were always on a hiding to nothing with him.

 

Edited July 25, 20232 yr by OriginalS

18 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

The 4231's not been tested yet either.

Scoring goals is fun but some are getting a bit overenthusiastic about pre-season here. I truly believe this squad will be completely found out in the Premier League unless we bring in quality players.

And yes, "be positive, have some faith, trust Winstanley" is all well and good but whoever is saying that also said the same thing for bloody Graham Potter and we were always on a hiding to nothing with him.

 

Who are these quality players?

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Why on earth would you change a working formation just to accommodate an average midfielder like Conor Gallagher ? That makes no sense whatsoever !

Season hasn't started yet, we don't know if it will work. That's why you need players that can offer something else.

Besides, I was theorising. If you think he's going to stick with the 4231 all season then I think you are going to be in for a surprise. 

18 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

The 4231's not been tested yet either.

Scoring goals is fun but some are getting a bit overenthusiastic about pre-season here. I truly believe this squad will be completely found out in the Premier League unless we bring in quality players.

And yes, "be positive, have some faith, trust Winstanley" is all well and good but whoever is saying that also said the same thing for bloody Graham Potter and we were always on a hiding to nothing with him.

 

I meant more that 4231 is Pochettino's preferred formation - so it "works" for how he wants to set up and how he wants to play. 

Plus when you look at our signings, and the positions they play, it seems to me that 4-2-3-1 is clearly what is in mind. 

I think we can already see the difference a proper manager is making. Potter was total amateur hour compared to what we are seeing now !

6 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Who are these quality players?

Caicedo + a goalkeeper would be a good start.

I think we need two new midfielders, a GK, right winger and quite possibly a striker even though Jackson have delivered in pre-season.

Have we even strictly played the 4231? I've seen us alternate from a 4231, 433, 3,4,3, 2,4,4, etc. Pochettino has been very flexible these 2 matches. 

Think people are simply waiting for the apocalypse vs actually watching and analyzing preseason. 

7 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Have we even strictly played the 4231? I've seen us alternate from a 4231, 433, 3,4,3, 2,4,4, etc. Pochettino has been very flexible these 2 matches. 

Think people are simply waiting for the apocalypse vs actually watching and analyzing preseason. 

I mean obviously it's fluid within a game, but the way we have set up for both games so far is 4-2-3-1.

This taken from club web site when the Brighton team news came out : 

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I mean obviously it's fluid within a game, but the way we have set up for both games so far is 4-2-3-1.

Exactly. No one plays a fixed formation nowadays so believing the 4231 will be found out in the Premier League is weird. 

43 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Caicedo + a goalkeeper would be a good start.

I think we need two new midfielders, a GK, right winger and quite possibly a striker even though Jackson have delivered in pre-season.

Caicedo £100m

Maignan £70m (not worth spending on another average maybe keeper)

Another new CM - £50m

Right winger - £40m (why?)

Striker - £80m (why? likely to fail anyway and Jackson looks class)

We aren't spending another £340m. 

I'd be happy starting the season with just Caicedo and maybe Olise added to the squad.

Being pushed out assume to raise funds to pay Brighton their asking price.

Rejected 37.5 mill from Pikeys holding out for 40 +, lets assume they get 45.

Mason Mount  55 mill quid, RLC 15 + 45 = 115 mill pounds pure profit.

They'd flog Trev & Colwill if it weren't for Fofana ACL and the manager putting his foot down.

Reckon with this threadbare inexperienced midfield he may be useful to keep around, if he's not contributed sell him in January, he will hold his value.