20 minutes ago, loz said:

Let's hope Nkunku himself isn't in the race. He'll come last.

Race to get away from.

Bayern wanted him, but are all out for Diaz instead.

United wanted him but focused on Cunha and Mbuemo

Newcastle have been turned down by almost every target but even they turned down the chance to sign him.

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Race to get away from.

Bayern wanted him, but are all out for Diaz instead.

United wanted him but focused on Cunha and Mbuemo

Newcastle have been turned down by almost every target but even they turned down the chance to sign him.

Just another example where fans and content creators have already decided who's leaving even though there is no evidence that they are going anywhere.

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Just another example where fans and content creators have already decided who's leaving even though there is no evidence that they are going anywhere.

His wages are too big, along with the fee would want. Wages make it very hard to shift Sterling and Chilwell. Nkunku would still get some minutes with us, they won't.

So imo they each have a choice either keep earning big money to not play, or accept going to Saudi to play and get big money.

Nkunku remains a world class 2nd striker when playing in a system and style that suits him. Is he good up front in a slow build up team? No. But as a 2nd striker in a fast progressive team, he is great.

Now- I accept he has never shown that at Chelsea - but when has he played for us in a position and style that suits him?

36 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Nkunku remains a world class 2nd striker when playing in a system and style that suits him. Is he good up front in a slow build up team? No. But as a 2nd striker in a fast progressive team, he is great.

Now- I accept he has never shown that at Chelsea - but when has he played for us in a position and style that suits him?

He had one good season in the Bundesliga.

57 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

He had one good season in the Bundesliga.

2020/21: 18 goals/assists in 40 games.

2021/22: 55 goals/assists in 53 games

2022/23: 32 goals/assists in 36 games

Across 3 seasons he had 105 goals/assists, in 129 games. Bundesliga player of the season on 2021/22. Bundesliga top scorer in 2022/23. Team of the season in both 2021/22 and 2022/23.

I get that you might not like him. I get that he has not done it at Chelsea - but lets not make up nonsense and say he had 1 good season. Its simply not true. When playing in a system, and in a position, and in a style that suits him, he is elite.

I actually thought Nkunku would be one of the easier players to shift. The problem is outside of Bayern and the big 3 in Spain nobody can deal with prem clubs cos they’re skint. Accept Saudi and then that’s the players dilemma.

If Bayern are no longer interested in him because of Diaz then they never intended to use him correctly anyway. They may still have interest. They lost a few attackers.

Otherwise he stays in the prem, heard forest were interested. Newcastle are going to have to do something even if they get Wissa.

Are we pricing him out? It’s hard to tell with reports from £30-£60m being quoted.

11 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

2020/21: 18 goals/assists in 40 games.

2021/22: 55 goals/assists in 53 games

2022/23: 32 goals/assists in 36 games

Across 3 seasons he had 105 goals/assists, in 129 games. Bundesliga player of the season on 2021/22. Bundesliga top scorer in 2022/23. Team of the season in both 2021/22 and 2022/23.

I get that you might not like him. I get that he has not done it at Chelsea - but lets not make up nonsense and say he had 1 good season. Its simply not true. When playing in a system, and in a position, and in a style that suits him, he is elite.

Couple of good seasons then. In the Bundesliga! Same place Timo Werner tore it up.

You said he "remains world class". He never was world class, and certainly isn't these days.

20 minutes ago, C3blue said:

I actually thought Nkunku would be one of the easier players to shift. The problem is outside of Bayern and the big 3 in Spain nobody can deal with prem clubs cos they’re skint. Accept Saudi and then that’s the players dilemma.

If Bayern are no longer interested in him because of Diaz then they never intended to use him correctly anyway. They may still have interest. They lost a few attackers.

Otherwise he stays in the prem, heard forest were interested. Newcastle are going to have to do something even if they get Wissa.

Are we pricing him out? It’s hard to tell with reports from £30-£60m being quoted.

If you want to move player, play him,Nkunku played less than 1000min last season in pl

26 minutes ago, C3blue said:

I actually thought Nkunku would be one of the easier players to shift. The problem is outside of Bayern and the big 3 in Spain nobody can deal with prem clubs cos they’re skint. Accept Saudi and then that’s the players dilemma.

If Bayern are no longer interested in him because of Diaz then they never intended to use him correctly anyway. They may still have interest. They lost a few attackers.

Otherwise he stays in the prem, heard forest were interested. Newcastle are going to have to do something even if they get Wissa.

Are we pricing him out? It’s hard to tell with reports from £30-£60m being quoted.

Bayern placed a bid of €50m last Jan but we demanded €60m. Utd were also interested. We have dropped our demand to £35m but a whole season of been average means he is no longer priority for any interested party. He isn’t pushing for a move which is strange considering it’s a World Cup year, but he is on big wages. He might move at the end of the window for under our £35m asking price.

50 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Couple of good seasons then. In the Bundesliga! Same place Timo Werner tore it up.

You said he "remains world class". He never was world class, and certainly isn't these days.

German player of the season, top scorer in the league, plays for French national team, continued to attract interest from World class teams like Bayern despite having a shocking season. Fairly sure this qualifies as world class.

14 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

German player of the season, top scorer in the league, plays for French national team, continued to attract interest from World class teams like Bayern despite having a shocking season. Fairly sure this qualifies as world class.

So, anything in the last two years other than a single German club deciding not to sign him?

1 hour ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

So, anything in the last two years other than a single German club deciding not to sign him?

Nope - he has been trash for us. Injured, then a manager who is tactically unprogressive and slow, and who generally played him out of position. Worse than that was what appeared to be a lack of desire and interest. That is unforgivable.

This wasn't my point though. I maintain that an Nkunku who is played in his best position (2nd striker) and in a team that plays a quick and progressive game - remains a brilliant player, potentially one of the very best in the game.

He remains an elite finisher, technically great on the ball, and intelligent in his positioning.

6 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Nope - he has been trash for us. Injured, then a manager who is tactically unprogressive and slow, and who generally played him out of position. Worse than that was what appeared to be a lack of desire and interest. That is unforgivable.

This wasn't my point though. I maintain that an Nkunku who is played in his best position (2nd striker) and in a team that plays a quick and progressive game - remains a brilliant player, potentially one of the very best in the game.

He remains an elite finisher, technically great on the ball, and intelligent in his positioning.

If you need an entire system and team to be built in a specific way for you to resemble a footballer, you certainly aren't world class or elite.

51 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

If you need an entire system and team to be built in a specific way for you to resemble a footballer, you certainly aren't world class or elite.

Don't agree with that. Hazard was world class - but regularly went missing and was often anonymous when we played him out of position as a false 9.

The game is littered with a players who have thrived only when playing in a specific system. Henry at arsenal - but poor at Juve and later barca. Pirlo who played alongside defensive cover at milan and juve - but struggled when exposed. Zidane was similar - flourishing in systems with midfield runners - but less effective when asked to play wide or do more defensive work.

Being world class doesn't mean being plug and play - it means being devastating when used correctly in a system and style to enhance your quality and mask your weaknesses.

Top class managers also flex. Ancelotti once said he messed up at Parma with Baggio because he didn't take into account the characteristics of the players to build the system. Uncle carlo also said "a clever coach is one who adapts" and he took the example of Vini - saying he would be an idiot if he didn't adapt his tactics and look to play on the counter with a player like him.

Jose also said similar - that a coach needs to adapt their game to suit the qualities of his players.

We even saw our special Cole Palmer struggle for large parts of last season due to a mix of being played out of position, and in a style that doesn't suit him.

17 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Don't agree with that. Hazard was world class - but regularly went missing and was often anonymous when we played him out of position as a false 9.

The game is littered with a players who have thrived only when playing in a specific system. Henry at arsenal - but poor at Juve and later barca. Pirlo who played alongside defensive cover at milan and juve - but struggled when exposed. Zidane was similar - flourishing in systems with midfield runners - but less effective when asked to play wide or do more defensive work.

Being world class doesn't mean being plug and play - it means being devastating when used correctly in a system and style to enhance your quality and mask your weaknesses.

Top class managers also flex. Ancelotti once said he messed up at Parma with Baggio because he didn't take into account the characteristics of the players to build the system. Uncle carlo also said "a clever coach is one who adapts" and he took the example of Vini - saying he would be an idiot if he didn't adapt his tactics and look to play on the counter with a player like him.

Jose also said similar - that a coach needs to adapt their game to suit the qualities of his players.

We even saw our special Cole Palmer struggle for large parts of last season due to a mix of being played out of position, and in a style that doesn't suit him.

I think we have different memories on this one.

Hazard at false 9 was great when he actually got the ball or when we dominated games, the issue was for the most part we would sit back and not hold possession long enough to get him involved.

34 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I think we have different memories on this one.

Hazard at false 9 was great when he actually got the ball or when we dominated games, the issue was for the most part we would sit back and not hold possession long enough to get him involved.

Exactly. What you are saying is that Hazard did not perform when we played out of position and in a style that did not suit him. Which is exactly my point re. Nkunku.

Disgusting comparison.

Hazard has 16 goal contributions playing as a CF for Chelsea in 26 games. Despite playing in a position that did not suit him, he was clearly talented enough to make it work.

Nkunku is sh*t in virtually every position if it isn't against Conference League part time farmers.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/eden-hazard/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/50202/saison//verein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb//trainer_id/0/pos/14

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Disgusting comparison.

Hazard has 16 goal contributions playing as a CF for Chelsea in 26 games. Despite playing in a position that did not suit him, he was clearly talented enough to make it work.

Nkunku is sh*t in virtually every position if it isn't against Conference League part time farmers.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/eden-hazard/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/50202/saison//verein/0/liga/0/wettbewerb//trainer_id/0/pos/14

Not a comparison on what they have done for Chelsea. There is no need for the selective reading - I have already said that Nkunku has been trash for us. He was injured, then once back, managed by a manager who is tactically unprogressive and slow, and who generally played him out of position. Worse than that was what appeared to be a lack of desire and interest. That is unforgivable.

The point about Hazard was simple, that even the best players need to be played in a position and with a style of play that suits them. The same can be said for the vast majority of footballers. Hazard was amazing for us. A legend. Who thankfully most of the time, was played in his preferred position, and given free reign to play in a way that suited him. Nkunku has never had that afforded.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Don't agree with that. Hazard was world class - but regularly went missing and was often anonymous when we played him out of position as a false 9.

The game is littered with a players who have thrived only when playing in a specific system. Henry at arsenal - but poor at Juve and later barca. Pirlo who played alongside defensive cover at milan and juve - but struggled when exposed. Zidane was similar - flourishing in systems with midfield runners - but less effective when asked to play wide or do more defensive work.

Being world class doesn't mean being plug and play - it means being devastating when used correctly in a system and style to enhance your quality and mask your weaknesses.

Top class managers also flex. Ancelotti once said he messed up at Parma with Baggio because he didn't take into account the characteristics of the players to build the system. Uncle carlo also said "a clever coach is one who adapts" and he took the example of Vini - saying he would be an idiot if he didn't adapt his tactics and look to play on the counter with a player like him.

Jose also said similar - that a coach needs to adapt their game to suit the qualities of his players.

We even saw our special Cole Palmer struggle for large parts of last season due to a mix of being played out of position, and in a style that doesn't suit him.

Hazard played under various coaches and various styles and thrived in every single one. Sarri, Conte, Mourinho. All completely different and Hazard was the best player every time, shameful to mention him in the same sentence as Nkunku.

He’s the French Timo Werner. Looked alright in a dog sh*t league, had to play wing back at PSG because he wasn’t good enough and has never shown up for the national team. ‘World class’.

7 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Not a comparison on what they have done for Chelsea. There is no need for the selective reading - I have already said that Nkunku has been trash for us. He was injured, then once back, managed by a manager who is tactically unprogressive and slow, and who generally played him out of position. Worse than that was what appeared to be a lack of desire and interest. That is unforgivable.

The point about Hazard was simple, that even the best players need to be played in a position and with a style of play that suits them. The same can be said for the vast majority of footballers. Hazard was amazing for us. A legend. Who thankfully most of the time, was played in his preferred position, and given free reign to play in a way that suited him. Nkunku has never had that afforded.

It's not selective reading I can assure you. You're creating a false equivalency.

Hazard made it work when out of position. Nkunku never has. Lack of desire and interest is a cop out. Even in the Club World Cup, Maresca had him play at LF, CAM, RF, positions he'd actually do well in, yet was bypassed by South American players. His injury ruined him.

I'm surprised the sporting directors haven't hired you on. Your sunk cost fallacy on Nkunku is on par with theirs for Sanchez. Least the latter actually won us a trophy.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Not a comparison on what they have done for Chelsea. There is no need for the selective reading - I have already said that Nkunku has been trash for us. He was injured, then once back, managed by a manager who is tactically unprogressive and slow, and who generally played him out of position. Worse than that was what appeared to be a lack of desire and interest. That is unforgivable.

The point about Hazard was simple, that even the best players need to be played in a position and with a style of play that suits them. The same can be said for the vast majority of footballers. Hazard was amazing for us. A legend. Who thankfully most of the time, was played in his preferred position, and given free reign to play in a way that suited him. Nkunku has never had that afforded.

Jim, the same excuses about the manager you are giving Nkunku can be given to Jackson. You can’t trash Jackson and not Nkunku. He has been a terrible signing and has adding nothing close to what Jackson has.

End of story, they both have to leave and both have not been successful signings.

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's not selective reading I can assure you. You're creating a false equivalency.

Hazard made it work when out of position. Nkunku never has. Lack of desire and interest is a cop out. Even in the Club World Cup, Maresca had him play at LF, CAM, RF, positions he'd actually do well in, yet was bypassed by South American players. His injury ruined him.

I'm surprised the sporting directors haven't hired you on. Your sunk cost fallacy on Nkunku is on par with theirs for Sanchez. Least the latter actually won us a trophy.

I'm fairly sure it's all just face-saving. He jumped on the "Nkunku is great" bandwagon and then doubled down when the more reasonable among us kept calling him out. Even now, despite prolonged evidence, there's still Jim determined to push this nonsense that nkunku is world class.

The reality is, anyone who's watched Nkunku without Jim-tinted glasses can see he's dire. Anyone is a far, far more refined and skilled footballer. Even setting goals aside, Anyone is comfortably the better player.

4 hours ago, Clown Lake said:

Jim, the same excuses about the manager you are giving Nkunku can be given to Jackson. You can’t trash Jackson and not Nkunku. He has been a terrible signing and has adding nothing close to what Jackson has.

End of story, they both have to leave and both have not been successful signings.

False. The entire system we played last season only really suited 2 players. 1 was Cucu. The Other was jackson - running around like a headless chicken. Jackson has never shown at any level elite finishing or play - unlike Nkunku who was one of, if not the, best 2nd striker in world football for close to 3 seasons.

6 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Hazard played under various coaches and various styles and thrived in every single one. Sarri, Conte, Mourinho. All completely different and Hazard was the best player every time, shameful to mention him in the same sentence as Nkunku.

He’s the French Timo Werner. Looked alright in a dog sh*t league, had to play wing back at PSG because he wasn’t good enough and has never shown up for the national team. ‘World class’.

I also mentioned Zidane, Henry and Pirlo. And I stick by it. The point was not to compare Nkunku to Hazard or any of the other players I mentioned - but to provide context to my argument that you are wrong when you say that "world class players shouldnt need a system built around them". Hazard, and all the other players referenced would struggle when played a) out of position and b)in a style that didnt suit their game. Messi, the best player of all time would struggle up front playing for a team hoofing it long into the box and expecting him to fight aerial battles.