3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

1 step forward.....2 steps back.

The glory-hunting instant success whores on here should be careful what they wish for.

Last game with Potter you saw a team that dominated play, had 29 shots, should have scored at least 3 or 4, and won comfortably, but didn't because our players can't finish their dinner.

Today you saw a team outplayed and outfought, had hardly any real chances, didn't deserve to score, and couldn't create the chances for our players to miss.

 

 

 

 

 

FFS Jim give it a rest this is about he tenth post staying the same. Believe it or not , the ShedEnd forum even though we like to think we’re important and know more than those in charge, have absolutely zero effect on Potter or any other coach getting sacked. As for wishes do you seriously believe in fairies?

8 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

The glory-hunting instant success whores on here should be careful what they wish for.

Yeah, if only you remembered when Tuchel had us in the Top 3 and fighting for the Champions League trophy every season. Careful what you wish for indeed.

10 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

1 step forward.....2 steps back.

The glory-hunting instant success whores on here should be careful what they wish for.

Last game with Potter you saw a team that dominated play, had 29 shots, should have scored at least 3 or 4, and won comfortably, but didn't because our players can't finish their dinner.

Today you saw a team outplayed and outfought, had hardly any real chances, didn't deserve to score, and couldn't create the chances for our players to miss.

 

Why the constant need to insult your fellow Chelsea fans ?  In recent memory you have called people morons, idiots, cretins ... and now whores, Other forums have rules against this sort of poor behaviour.

95% voted Potter out in the 3rd poll, so you're baiting the vast majority of people on here for some reason ... 

On 04/04/2023 at 19:06, just said:

I know you didn't want Potter from the outset OS, but you were personally so crestfallen, so absolutely devastated that Tuchel was sacked, that I don't believe you would have accepted anyone else BUT Tuchel at that time. I recall one long time poster on here basically saying you were acting like a jilted Julie who couldn't get over losing her ex. Harsh maybe, but that was how you were coming across in your posts.

That's probably fair. I was not at all happy Boehly sacked Tuchel in favour of Potter and had a very good idea of what direction we were heading in. Maybe I saw that earlier than others or maybe not but that was the one decision that kickstarted our decline for me. No need to go into the reasons again but we were lucky to have him and he always overachieved for the club considering the circumstances and squad he had to work with. If anything he set the bar too high to begin with (by winning the Champions League and by being top of the league in December) so people judged him on that when the going got really tough with Covid, hard sanctions, terrible injuries, club sale, a terribly planned pre-season because of said sanctions/sale that had to be focused on etc.

Unfortunately it's all history though and we are suffering the consequences. And not just a littlebit.

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Why the constant need to insult your fellow Chelsea fans ?  In recent memory you have called people morons, idiots, cretins ... and now whores, Other forums have rules against this sort of poor behaviour.

95% voted Potter out in the 3rd poll, so you're baiting the vast majority of people on here for some reason ... 

What's even weirder is he claims he doesn't think Potter was the right man for the job. But he has a go at everyone else for saying the same thing? 

Genuinely baffled by how that works. So what if he didn't get "enough time", not many managers would with the win % and goal difference he had. He was lucky to even survive after that Southampton game. Not even midtable and dare I say relegation teams tolerate that type of form. You can blame the players and the board as much as you want, his spell here was absolutely piss poor, and he has take a lot of blame for that. 

Potter single-handedly ruined the club, but I get it, some will blame the owners that hired him in the first place.

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Potter single-handedly ruined the club, but I get it, some will blame the owners that hired him in the first place.

I think Potter definitely set us backwards but he can't be completely blamed. The owners were the ones who decided to sack Tuchel and experiment with Potter. It's on them. I think we can all say Potter was far worse than expected, even I didn't expect him to be this bad and I've been one of his biggest critics besides TimesUpPotter. 

The owners absolutely have to take the blame for this one, I think Potter did his best, but it was never enough. The owners, however, found out the hard way that making decisions like that has serious consequences. They took a big gamble that didn't pay off. Hopefully now, they take a big step back and let other people who know more about the game decide. 

They didn't even sack Potter at the correct time, he should've gone ages ago, especially after the Southampton game, we could've probably got a decent interim around that time. Now we've got Lampard because he's probably the only one we can get for the time being. 

6 hours ago, Victor90 said:

What's even weirder is he claims he doesn't think Potter was the right man for the job. But he has a go at everyone else for saying the same thing? 

Genuinely baffled by how that works. So what if he didn't get "enough time", not many managers would with the win % and goal difference he had. He was lucky to even survive after that Southampton game. Not even midtable and dare I say relegation teams tolerate that type of form. You can blame the players and the board as much as you want, his spell here was absolutely piss poor, and he has take a lot of blame for that. 

You are baffled by that works, because again you are looking in binary i.e good/bad, right/wrong, win/lose. But life also has shades of grey.

I continually said I had doubts over potter. I stick by that.

But bigger picture....

I also said the club was a mess, rotten from top to bottom, and that more important than immediately results was the need to sort out the direction of the club. I would take the short term pain for the long term gain.

That would have/will take time to fix. Not the few months potter was give, the single transfer window potter was given, the zero pre season potter was given. 

I saw enough positives in our displays, to feel that we should have stuck with the bigger picture goal of resetting the club, rather than revert to type and ditch a manager who  has, whilst definitely underperformed, worked in a very difficult set of circumstances. 

We are now back to square 1. An overly expensive squad of players, purchased for multiple managers that are no longer here. Directionless both on and off the field. 

So again - if you can't see the nuance in my position, that is a you problem - not a me problem.

9 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Why the constant need to insult your fellow Chelsea fans ?  In recent memory you have called people morons, idiots, cretins ... and now whores, Other forums have rules against this sort of poor behaviour.

95% voted Potter out in the 3rd poll, so you're baiting the vast majority of people on here for some reason ... 

Ok - you choose the adjectives you would like to use for our modern money "fans" who have no patience, demand the impossible/improbable and scream and stamp their feet if they don't get the instant success that they feel that they are entitled to.

If you don't think my descriptions are accurate  - choose your own and I will use them instead. 

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

You are baffled by that works, because again you are looking in binary i.e good/bad, right/wrong, win/lose. But life also has shades of grey.

I continually said I had doubts over potter. I stick by that.

But bigger picture....

I also said the club was a mess, rotten from top to bottom, and that more important than immediately results was the need to sort out the direction of the club. I would take the short term pain for the long term gain.

That would have/will take time to fix. Not the few months potter was give, the single transfer window potter was given, the zero pre season potter was given. 

I saw enough positives in our displays, to feel that we should have stuck with the bigger picture goal of resetting the club, rather than revert to type and ditch a manager who  has, whilst definitely underperformed, worked in a very difficult set of circumstances. 

We are now back to square 1. An overly expensive squad of players, purchased for multiple managers that are no longer here. Directionless both on and off the field. 

So again - if you can't see the nuance in my position, that is a you problem - not a me problem.

I agree with you about the need to overhaul, and accept short term pain for long term gain. However I think the owners picked the wrong manager to handle the transition period, and should never have made that decision before they had established their board of football experts (Vivell etc.). So now they find themselves having to start the whole process again and I suspect plenty more pain before we see improvement. I can only hope that the next manager is selected/approved by Vivell, since I assume that the players signed the end of last year were also selected by Vivell and team.

10 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

1 step forward.....2 steps back.

The glory-hunting instant success whores on here should be careful what they wish for.

Last game with Potter you saw a team that dominated play, had 29 shots, should have scored at least 3 or 4, and won comfortably, but didn't because our players can't finish their dinner.

Today you saw a team outplayed and outfought, had hardly any real chances, didn't deserve to score, and couldn't create the chances for our players to miss.

 

 

 

 

 

Where was this defence for Tuchel? He brought more to the club than Potter ever did and yet for some reason you insult the people that rightfully assessed Potter's performance on merit.

Potter sucked and his appointment set us back years. If it wasn't for the 10pts Tuchel got us back in September, we would have been in relegation. Yet somehow the blame is with the people who want Potter out? Jeez

4 minutes ago, Deino said:

Where was this defence for Tuchel? He brought more to the club than Potter ever did and yet for some reason you insult the people that rightfully assessed Potter's performance on merit.

Potter sucked and his appointment set us back years. If it wasn't for the 10pts Tuchel got us back in September, we would have been in relegation. Yet somehow the blame is with the people who want Potter out? Jeez

By the end, Tuchel had us regressing. Playing very negative, unprogressive football. Getting hammered at Leeds without hardly creating anything. Playing against palace without having a single shot on target. More important than the results, was the fact that we were playing the most passive, backward football for months and months, AND he was becoming a liability in his off-the-field demeanor.

In any case, this isnt a binary Tuchel or Potter argument. Prime Tuchel would be a clear upgrade. But by the end of TTs reign, we were not getting Prime Tuchel.

 

 

26 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I agree with you about the need to overhaul, and accept short term pain for long term gain. However I think the owners picked the wrong manager to handle the transition period, and should never have made that decision before they had established their board of football experts (Vivell etc.). So now they find themselves having to start the whole process again and I suspect plenty more pain before we see improvement. I can only hope that the next manager is selected/approved by Vivell, since I assume that the players signed the end of last year were also selected by Vivell and team.

I dont disagree. The board have rushed into too many decisions (Sacking TT, Appointing potter, buying K2+Auba+Cucu+Mudryk, sacking Potter, appointing Frank).

Loads of errors......

...which makes it even more ludicrous for lots of "fans" to put the blame at Potters door, when he was clearly working under extenuating circs.

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

You are baffled by that works, because again you are looking in binary i.e good/bad, right/wrong, win/lose. But life also has shades of grey.

I continually said I had doubts over potter. I stick by that.

But bigger picture....

I also said the club was a mess, rotten from top to bottom, and that more important than immediately results was the need to sort out the direction of the club. I would take the short term pain for the long term gain.

That would have/will take time to fix. Not the few months potter was give, the single transfer window potter was given, the zero pre season potter was given. 

I saw enough positives in our displays, to feel that we should have stuck with the bigger picture goal of resetting the club, rather than revert to type and ditch a manager who  has, whilst definitely underperformed, worked in a very difficult set of circumstances. 

We are now back to square 1. An overly expensive squad of players, purchased for multiple managers that are no longer here. Directionless both on and off the field. 

So again - if you can't see the nuance in my position, that is a you problem - not a me problem.

This is just endlessly going around in circles and it's getting boring Jim.

But like others have said, you were one of Tuchels biggest critics. You talk about time, but you didn't give Tuchel much time, as soon as we started to have a blip you wanted him gone, it was barely even a couple of months and you were on his back. If you were a Liverpool supporter I bet you would've wanted Klopp gone ages ago, he's had two poor seasons but he's always come back and Liverpool will likely be back in the mix again next season. We never gave Tuchel that chance even though he's been our only manager since Conte who looks like he can actually win us the big trophies. 

So surely you can see it's very difficult from our perspective to watch you continuously slander people who didn't give Potter time when you yourself wanted Tuchel gone after he hit some bad form. Then suddenly you start blaming the players, so if the players aren't good enough now after we've spunked 600 million with new talent, how the f**k were they any better under Tuchel? That must mean you now recognise that Tuchel had far less quality and he still won us trophies and got us into the top 4 every season. 

Like I've said before, I can completely understand some posters who wanted to give Potter time. But I can't understand posters who wanted Tuchel sacked but wanted to give Potter time. 

14 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

This is just endlessly going around in circles and it's getting boring Jim.

But like others have said, you were one of Tuchels biggest critics. You talk about time, but you didn't give Tuchel much time, as soon as we started to have a blip you wanted him gone, it was barely even a couple of months and you were on his back. If you were a Liverpool supporter I bet you would've wanted Klopp gone ages ago, he's had two poor seasons but he's always come back and Liverpool will likely be back in the mix again next season. We never gave Tuchel that chance even though he's been our only manager since Conte who looks like he can actually win us the big trophies. 

So surely you can see it's very difficult from our perspective to watch you continuously slander people who didn't give Potter time when you yourself wanted Tuchel gone after he hit some bad form. Then suddenly you start blaming the players, so if the players aren't good enough now after we've spunked 600 million with new talent, how the f**k were they any better under Tuchel? That must mean you now recognise that Tuchel had far less quality and he still won us trophies and got us into the top 4 every season. 

Like I've said before, I can completely understand some posters who wanted to give Potter time. But I can't understand posters who wanted Tuchel sacked but wanted to give Potter time. 

Tuchel was here how long? How many transfer windows did he have? He started well, peaked with the UCL, and then had us sliding fast.

I would have been firmly behind Tuchel had I seen signs of evolution (for the better)- but I didn't see it. We had got progressively worse, to the extent that by the end we were going through games without even having a single shot on target. 

 

Just now, nonotnowjim said:

Tuchel was here how long? How many transfer windows did he have? He started well, peaked with the UCL, and then had us sliding fast.

I would have been firmly behind Tuchel had I seen signs of evolution (for the better)- but I didn't see it. We had got progressively worse, to the extent that by the end we were going through games without even having a single shot on target. 

 

Has it ever occurred to you that back then the board were reluctant to sign players? The sanctions of Russia were mounting, Roman was barely allowed back in the country for numerous years before the Ukraine war. 

He didn't peak at a CL win, the CL is the biggest trophy in club football to win, so if you don't win it again you can easily say anyone has peaked. We were mounting a title challenge until Chilwell and James got injured and numerous other players. You loved giving Potter the excuse of injuries but Tuchel wasn't allowed it. 

And despite all that, he still got us into two cup finals and won two trophies while finishing top 4 when the club was getting sanctioned. You completely underestimate the challenge that was. As I said with Klopp, it took him years to win a trophy, and even when he did win the two big trophies, he had poor seasons after it but still came back. So he "peaked" and "regressed" yet Liverpool gave him time and he bounced back. We should've given Tuchel the same time.

Tuchel even said he didn't want to take on too much responsibility outside of being a manager, which pretty much hints he didn't have a lot of involvement in transfers. I doubt Potter had a lot of say in our January transfers, otherwise, he can't really moan about the size of the team. 

You don't just sack a manager and call it regression after a few bad months. What sort of logic is that? At least with Tuchel we actually had some good form, we didn't get any of it in 7 months under Potter. You make 0 sense. 

7 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Has it ever occurred to you that back then the board were reluctant to sign players? The sanctions of Russia were mounting, Roman was barely allowed back in the country for numerous years before the Ukraine war. 

He didn't peak at a CL win, the CL is the biggest trophy in club football to win, so if you don't win it again you can easily say anyone has peaked. We were mounting a title challenge until Chilwell and James got injured and numerous other players. You loved giving Potter the excuse of injuries but Tuchel wasn't allowed it. 

And despite all that, he still got us into two cup finals and won two trophies while finishing top 4 when the club was getting sanctioned. You completely underestimate the challenge that was. As I said with Klopp, it took him years to win a trophy, and even when he did win the two big trophies, he had poor seasons after it but still came back. So he "peaked" and "regressed" yet Liverpool gave him time and he bounced back. We should've given Tuchel the same time.

Tuchel even said he didn't want to take on too much responsibility outside of being a manager, which pretty much hints he didn't have a lot of involvement in transfers. I doubt Potter had a lot of say in our January transfers, otherwise, he can't really moan about the size of the team. 

You don't just sack a manager and call it regression after a few bad months. What sort of logic is that? At least with Tuchel we actually had some good form, we didn't get any of it in 7 months under Potter. You make 0 sense. 

I guess we see the game differently. Under tuchel we played, for a prolonged period, some of the worst football I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching. I saw zero signs he knew  how, or wanted to change the way we played (negative, unprogressive, risk averse).

Under Potter we didn't get results. But knowing the mammoth task ahead, I saw small signs of progress that for me, warranted time.

You can say it makes zero sense to you.....but that is a you problem,  not me. I have explained more than sufficiently, on more than 1 occasion.  You can disagree - that's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that by the end of Tuchels reign we were playing turgid dross football. Under Potter at the end we created bucketloads of chances (29 shots) but couldn't score. Neither is ideal or optimal - but i prefer the latter. 

7 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I guess we see the game differently. Under tuchel we played, for a prolonged period, some of the worst football I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching. I saw zero signs he knew  how, or wanted to change the way we played (negative, unprogressive, risk averse).

Under Potter we didn't get results. But knowing the mammoth task ahead, I saw small signs of progress that for me, warranted time.

You can say it makes zero sense to you.....but that is a you problem,  not me. I have explained more than sufficiently, on more than 1 occasion.  You can disagree - that's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that by the end of Tuchels reign we were playing turgid dross football. Under Potter at the end we created bucketloads of chances (29 shots) but couldn't score. Neither is ideal or optimal - but i prefer the latter. 

Why were the results way better under Tuchel then? We didn`t "improve" under Potter. In fact, we pretty much fell off a cliff. Did you bother to look at the table at all in recent weeks? I am confused as to how someone can look at the Potter-era and think we somehow improved. 2022/23 we managed top4 and 2 cup finals .... 23/24 we are in the bottom half of the table and nothing else that would indicate any improvement.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by reparto corse

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I guess we see the game differently. Under tuchel we played, for a prolonged period, some of the worst football I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching. I saw zero signs he knew  how, or wanted to change the way we played (negative, unprogressive, risk averse).

Under Potter we didn't get results. But knowing the mammoth task ahead, I saw small signs of progress that for me, warranted time.

You can say it makes zero sense to you.....but that is a you problem,  not me. I have explained more than sufficiently, on more than 1 occasion.  You can disagree - that's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that by the end of Tuchels reign we were playing turgid dross football. Under Potter at the end we created bucketloads of chances (29 shots) but couldn't score. Neither is ideal or optimal - but i prefer the latter. 

Laughable revisionism, if it wasn't for Tuchels 10 points we would actually be in relegation. 

I love how you only count Potters final game, most games under Potter we barely created any chances and lost the game, got severely outplayed. And that's with the likes of Enzo, Felix, and Mudryk into the fold. 

Even looking passed the results Potters football was atrocious. Should've beaten Villa fair enough, that's one of the few games under Potter where we played well but lost, most times we deserved to lose. We had a pitiful performance against Spurs, under Tuchel we battered them, if you want to play that game by my guest.

But anyway, I'm leaving it at that, you're never going to admit you're wrong on it. So it's pointless. 

Just now, reparto corse said:

Why were the results way better under Tuchel then? We didn`t "improve" under Potter. In fact, we pretty much fell off a cliff. Did you bother to look at the table at all in recent weeks? I am confused as to how someone can look at the Potter-era and think we somehow improved. 2022/23 we managed top4 and 2 cup finals .... 23/24 we are in the bottom half of the table and nothing else that would improve any improvement.

Because in my opinion Tuchel focused on short term results rather than long term reset.

No - I didn't look at the league. It is irrelevant to me. We are not getting relegated and we won't finish top 4 - so the league is immaterial to me.

I don't agree that we didn't improve under Potter. For me, performances and style (more chances, more progressive) improved under Potter. I accept that results clearly did not improve - but again, I prefer looking long term (mentality + culture) rather than short term (results) 

1 minute ago, Victor90 said:

Laughable revisionism, if it wasn't for Tuchels 10 points we would actually be in relegation. 

I love how you only count Potters final game, most games under Potter we barely created any chances and lost the game, got severely outplayed. And that's with the likes of Enzo, Felix, and Mudryk into the fold. 

Even looking passed the results Potters football was atrocious. Should've beaten Villa fair enough, that's one of the few games under Potter where we played well but lost, most times we deserved to lose. We had a pitiful performance against Spurs, under Tuchel we battered them, if you want to play that game by my guest.

But anyway, I'm leaving it at that, you're never going to admit you're wrong on it. So it's pointless. 

Good - put me on mute. My opinion is no more right, or wrong, than yours. They are all opinions based on what we see, care about and perceive. Neither is gospel. 

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Because in my opinion Tuchel focused on short term results rather than long term reset.

No - I didn't look at the league. It is irrelevant to me. We are not getting relegated and we won't finish top 4 - so the league is immaterial to me.

I don't agree that we didn't improve under Potter. For me, performances and style (more chances, more progressive) improved under Potter. I accept that results clearly did not improve - but again, I prefer looking long term (mentality + culture) rather than short term (results) 

That`s borderline insane reasoning. Potter was clueless. He didn`t build anything. He tinkered with the line-up every week without finding a decent system that works. Not sure how that is "long term resest" and "looking long term mentally and culturally". I honestly have no idea what Potter even tried to do tactically. With Tuchel there was an immediate impact from game 1 after taking over from Lamps.

But OK, you admit not even looking at the league table. Not sure why I even argue with you. That`s a very weird point of view. It matters if you are 5th or 15th in my world.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by reparto corse

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

By the end, Tuchel had us regressing

Ever occured to you that Tuchel dealt with more than any Chelsea manager in history in his last 7-8 months?

Everyone would have regressed. Especially when the bar was initially set at COE and league leaders.

Still delivered results your guy Potter can only dream off and you only supported one of them. And if you believe our opinions matter YOU are the guy who's hurt the club - Not the guys who wanted the worst manager in our history out.

33 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Ever occured to you that Tuchel dealt with more than any Chelsea manager in history in his last 7-8 months?

Everyone would have regressed. Especially when the bar was initially set at COE and league leaders.

Still delivered results your guy Potter can only dream off and you only supported one of them. And if you believe our opinions matter YOU are the guy who's hurt the club - Not the guys who wanted the worst manager in our history out.

Yeah - its never the toxic, fickle fans that hurt clubs is it?

45 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

That`s borderline insane reasoning. Potter was clueless. He didn`t build anything. He tinkered with the line-up every week without finding a decent system that works. Not sure how that is "long term resest" and "looking long term mentally and culturally". I honestly have no idea what Potter even tried to do tactically. With Tuchel there was an immediate impact from game 1 after taking over from Lamps.

But OK, you admit not even looking at the league table. Not sure why I even argue with you. That`s a very weird point of view. It matters if you are 5th or 15th in my world.

I agree that he didn't build anything.  But as I said 5454 times, it was always going to take time given the circs he took over. That bit (Time) is the part that most of the demanding 'new money' brigade on here don't understand or grant.

If you expect someone to build a team when a)  not having a pre-season; b) having had a single winter transfer window; c) given the mountainous task of integrating X number of new young players that had before never set foot in the EPL; and d) had the season disrupted by a World cup which left him 6 first team players - then your expectations are irrational and unrealistic.