54 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

It's not consistent at the level available to the public. The private datasets used by actual clubs have consistent definitions for their variables, but your average Whoscored/FBRef etc are just fansites.

Opta have different definitions. Enzo's pass would be considered a "second assist", and Rudiger's 40-yarder would not be considered a 'big chance'.

 

In the end of the day it is just another data point. 

Honestly this discussion about Felix creativity is not interesting. He is probably similar to mount in this area. 

I am more interested in his finishing. Is he unlucky? Or is he this good at hitting the post? 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

In the end of the day it is just another data point. 

Honestly this discussion about Felix creativity is not interesting. He is probably similar to mount in this area. 

I am more interested in his finishing. Is he unlucky? Or is he this good at hitting the post? 

 

 

 

 

Looking at his goal scoring numbers the past few seasons i think he's just an average finisher tbh

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

What is the evidence, though? 

Lots of people are alluding to this. I watched him here and at Atletico and I just don't see it. What am I missing?

Yeah I dont get it either, he looked good in the first game before he got red carded but has done almost nothing since. I think a lot of the FIFA generation of fans see all the flicks, tricks, the up + triangle moves and get all moist, when none of those things actually accomplish anything of substance. Like I said in another thread, just another "all fart and no pooh" player...

31 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yeah I dont get it either, he looked good in the first game before he got red carded but has done almost nothing since. I think a lot of the FIFA generation of fans see all the flicks, tricks, the up + triangle moves and get all moist, when none of those things actually accomplish anything of substance. Like I said in another thread, just another "all fart and no pooh" player...

I've found my new favourite saying

3 hours ago, dkw said:

Yeah I dont get it either, he looked good in the first game before he got red carded but has done almost nothing since. I think a lot of the FIFA generation of fans see all the flicks, tricks, the up + triangle moves and get all moist, when none of those things actually accomplish anything of substance. Like I said in another thread, just another "all fart and no pooh" player...

what an archaic dinosaur view on football😂😂😂

"flicks and tricks, fifa generation" - these sort of fans imo bring a much higher level of thinking, better than the old school dino's who think only showing passion on the pitch and running around a lot doing nothing is whats rated. 

You sort of fans would probably say Hazard didnt do much either because his G/A stats were never that impressive

5 minutes ago, Big Nigel said:

what an archaic dinosaur view on football😂😂😂

"flicks and tricks, fifa generation" - these sort of fans imo bring a much higher level of thinking, better than the old school dino's who think only showing passion on the pitch and running around a lot doing nothing is whats rated. 

You sort of fans would probably say Hazard didnt do much either because his G/A stats were never that impressive

Hazard's goals and assists were impressive though? Felix is Hazard with half his ability and none of his ability to single-handedly affect a game. 

5 minutes ago, Big Nigel said:

what an archaic dinosaur view on football😂😂😂

"flicks and tricks, fifa generation" - these sort of fans imo bring a much higher level of thinking, better than the old school dino's who think only showing passion on the pitch and running around a lot doing nothing is whats rated. 

You sort of fans would probably say Hazard didnt do much either because his G/A stats were never that impressive

No I wouldnt, I dont see stats as too meaningful at all, they only show part of a picture at best.

What I do is use my eyes to watch what a player does, I know, its a very odd concept for someone as hard as thinking as you to grasp, see what impact they have on a game, and Felix has very little, he does very little meaningful work in the ball that ever leads to anything of substance.

You sort of "Fans" will struggle with that, what with only seeing 30 second clips on youtube or tik-tok.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

No I wouldnt, I dont see stats as too meaningful at all, they only show part of a picture at best.

What I do is use my eyes to watch what a player does, I know, its a very odd concept for someone as hard as thinking as you to grasp, see what impact they have on a game, and Felix has very little, he does very little meaningful work in the ball that ever leads to anything of substance.

You sort of "Fans" will struggle with that, what with only seeing 30 second clips on youtube or tik-tok.

Cleary we view the game differently then - I rate technical ability and the intelligence of player e.g. someone who can pick out a pass nobody see's or a perfectly weighted ball so for me someone like a Felix stands out. 

whereas its quite apparent that you like to see the passion and running side of the sport.

I go to plenty of games and watch plenty of matches at home as well and various different clubs - doubt you could say the same. Outside of your 3pm pub sesh on a saturday I doubt you watch much other football outside of it

6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Hazard's goals and assists were impressive though? Felix is Hazard with half his ability and none of his ability to single-handedly affect a game. 

They very much are, but I just meant from a numbers perspective they were never that great apart from the last season he had - and even without getting G/A he was still very much our best player most the time because of what else he brings - Similar to Felix at the moment, albeit at a lower level

5 minutes ago, Big Nigel said:

 

whereas its quite apparent that you like to see the passion and running side of the sport.

 

I would love to know where you got this utter bollocks from.

2 minutes ago, Big Nigel said:

They very much are, but I just meant from a numbers perspective they were never that great apart from the last season he had - and even without getting G/A he was still very much our best player most the time because of what else he brings - Similar to Felix at the moment, albeit at a lower level

Hazard consistently scored around 15 league goals every season except for the Mourinho breakdown season, the very most Felix scored is 8 since coming to a top league and that's while playing more advanced than Hazard did. I'd love some examples of Felix being our best player currently, he hasn't even lasted the full 90 minutes in his last 5 games for us. What kind of indispensable footballing genius consistently gets subbed off and doesn't contribute with goals and assists?

1 minute ago, dkw said:

I would love to know where you got this utter bollocks from.

passion, desire, fight, heart, effort and running a lot are usually terms synonymous with some of these old school fans. These metrics may have been of note back in the 70's or 80's when football in general wasn't anywhere near as technical in England, but in the modern day those attributes are not worth anywhere near as much. 

Being a technically very good footballer far outweighs those things, and thats what matters in todays game

1 minute ago, Big Nigel said:

passion, desire, fight, heart, effort and running a lot are usually terms synonymous with some of these old school fans. These metrics may have been of note back in the 70's or 80's when football in general wasn't anywhere near as technical in England, but in the modern day those attributes are not worth anywhere near as much. 

Being a technically very good footballer far outweighs those things, and thats what matters in todays game

Yeah, great....now, where did you get the utter bollocks that all I care about is Passion and running.

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Hazard consistently scored around 15 league goals every season except for the Mourinho breakdown season, the very most Felix scored is 8 since coming to a top league and that's while playing more advanced than Hazard did. I'd love some examples of Felix being our best player currently, he hasn't even lasted the full 90 minutes in his last 5 games for us. What kind of indispensable footballing genius consistently gets subbed off and doesn't contribute with goals and assists?

Hazard in his first season scored 9 league goals in 34 games, yet he was undoubtedly one of our best players that year. Felix only came here in January and has barely played, but you can still see the impact he is making.. Whether its a dribble to get out of a sticky situation or a great pass or through ball or whatever it is he is making things happen on the pitch and linking up well with others.

Its clear we are never gonna agree on this though so lets just agree to disagree

4 minutes ago, Big Nigel said:

Hazard in his first season scored 9 league goals in 34 games, yet he was undoubtedly one of our best players that year. Felix only came here in January and has barely played, but you can still see the impact he is making.. Whether its a dribble to get out of a sticky situation or a great pass or through ball or whatever it is he is making things happen on the pitch and linking up well with others.

Its clear we are never gonna agree on this though so lets just agree to disagree

9 goals at age 21 playing on the wing. Then went on to score 14 league goals for the 2 seasons after that on the wing, that's called progression. Compare that to Felix's 6, 7 ,8 and currently on 6 goals as a CF for Atletico. He's showed the tiniest amount of improvement in the nearly 4 years since leaving Benfica. His dribbling out of sticky situations on the edge of our own box which gifted Leicester a goal when we're only 1-0 up. What great pass or through ball because he's not got any assists yet? You're saying what you want to hear without it being true. 

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

9 goals at age 21 playing on the wing. Then went on to score 14 league goals for the 2 seasons after that on the wing, that's called progression. Compare that to Felix's 6, 7 ,8 and currently on 6 goals as a CF for Atletico. He's showed the tiniest amount of improvement in the nearly 4 years since leaving Benfica. His dribbling out of sticky situations on the edge of our own box which gifted Leicester a goal when we're only 1-0 up. What great pass or through ball because he's not got any assists yet? You're saying what you want to hear without it being true. 

The mistake that lead to the Leicester goal was infuriating. But my main question is given how dog sh*t the team are performing, worst I've ever seen, is it not massively harsh to pick out Felix as a reason for it? Would the Hazard you're talking about have been able to come into this tactical shambles of a team and done much better than Felix? I really don't think so. Me personally I think Felix has easily been our brightest spark this season and you talk about assists, imagine having to rely on a donkey like Havertz to convert chances. 

2 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

The mistake that lead to the Leicester goal was infuriating. But my main question is given how dog sh*t the team are performing, worst I've ever seen, is it not massively harsh to pick out Felix as a reason for it? Would the Hazard you're talking about have been able to come into this tactical shambles of a team and done much better than Felix? I really don't think so. Me personally I think Felix has easily been our brightest spark this season and you talk about assists, imagine having to rely on a donkey like Havertz to convert chances. 

In our crap 2015/16 season, which was probably on par with where we are this year, Hazard scored 4 goals in 31 league appearances. Felix has 2 in 7 at the moment. 

Just now, timetowaste said:

The mistake that lead to the Leicester goal was infuriating. But my main question is given how dog sh*t the team are performing, worst I've ever seen, is it not massively harsh to pick out Felix as a reason for it? Would the Hazard you're talking about have been able to come into this tactical shambles of a team and done much better than Felix? I really don't think so. Me personally I think Felix has easily been our brightest spark this season and you talk about assists, imagine having to rely on a donkey like Havertz to convert chances. 

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm by no means blaming Felix for how we're playing currently. I simply like to correct the people that come into the thread pretending he's the second coming of Hazard and can rescue the team. He's a good player from what I've seen the last few years at Atletico, probably on par with Havertz with influence on a game. Just certainly not an elite player like some people pretend. Lets be honest here, in that support role behind a striker 2019-22 Mount was much more effective (yes i understand he's dog sh*t currently and is probably leaving).

Just now, Sexyfootball said:

In our crap 2015/16 season, which was probably on par with where we are this year, Hazard scored 4 goals in 31 league appearances. Felix has 2 in 7 at the moment. 

Fair point, that season was painful to watch

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

In our crap 2015/16 season, which was probably on par with where we are this year, Hazard scored 4 goals in 31 league appearances. Felix has 2 in 7 at the moment. 

That season Hazard had completely downed tools and wasn't playing and he still had a more memorable goal (against Spurs) than Felix has managed in his entire career to date. This is Felix at full fitness and trying his hardest and not affecting games. We were sh*te in 17-18 too and Hazard managed 12 league goals. 

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

That season Hazard had completely downed tools and wasn't playing and he still had a more memorable goal (against Spurs) than Felix has managed in his entire career to date. This is Felix at full fitness and trying his hardest and not affecting games. We were sh*te in 17-18 too and Hazard managed 12 league goals. 

Imagine if Hazard had to play in a non-scoring team managed by Graham Potter in which pretty much every player was a shadow of their former selves ...  what a frightening thought LOL 

18 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

That season Hazard had completely downed tools and wasn't playing and he still had a more memorable goal (against Spurs) than Felix has managed in his entire career to date. This is Felix at full fitness and trying his hardest and not affecting games. We were sh*te in 17-18 too and Hazard managed 12 league goals. 

It's bad enough this narrative keeps getting spun by rival fans. Hiddink confirmed Hazard was playing through a hip injury.

16 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Imagine if Hazard had to play in a non-scoring team managed by Graham Potter in which pretty much every player was a shadow of their former selves ...  what a frightening thought LOL 

Hazard case is bizzare, you can't motivate him, it depend on his mood. He said it himself, that many managers said this n that but nothing works

He played well one season then took the next season off then the cycle continue.

His best number came under Sarri and it got nothing to do with sarri. He knew that it was his last season so he wanted to perform well. 

Edited March 24, 20233 yr by Bob stark

1 hour ago, Big Nigel said:

passion, desire, fight, heart, effort and running a lot are usually terms synonymous with some of these old school fans. These metrics may have been of note back in the 70's or 80's when football in general wasn't anywhere near as technical in England, but in the modern day those attributes are not worth anywhere near as much. 

Being a technically very good footballer far outweighs those things, and thats what matters in todays game

Strange you say that.. Conte one of the best modern coaches said his team failed because of a lack of all of the above and not due to tactics and techniques.

there are a lot of good technical players around who don’t make it because they don’t have “heart desire”.. etc.. I don’t think there is a debate to be had in terms of what is more important because I think both are equally important.

It's only been 2 months. 

I certainly haven't seen enough from Felix to suggest we should spend over the odds for him at the rumored 80m, but I don't agree to the idea that we haven't seen any sparks of creativity or attacking influence. He's very exciting when he has the ball but his overall game needs improving. 

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

His best number came under Sarri and it got nothing to do with sarri. He knew that it was his last season so he was motivated to perform well. 

He tell you that personally?