23 minutes ago, dkw said:

What metric are you using to make this claim, why do you think hes below others you mentioned

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

49 minutes ago, bluedave said:

Well. not every 14 year-old will be 500k. That is determined by the 'market value' and how their potential is perceived. But yeah, identifying and developing young talent is difficult/expensive and generates more misses than hits, we should just not bother. Close the academy.

Of course not, but we didn’t spend 500k to find JT or Reece though did we. It’s not necessary.

I’d go so far as to say at 14, JT was far from being the best player on the pitch in his age group. And those that were had nowhere near the career he had if they had one at all.

I understand the argument you only need to unearth 1 gem etc but as I have said spending that money on kids that age is a pointless gamble which if anything hurts the boys chances with un necessary pressure.

I feel in the future we will see more and more players careers ending prematurely when they should be in their prime because they have had too much too soon and no longer give a sh*t.

I’m still to hear one good argument for this being a good idea other than the if, buts, and maybes. The exact same if, buts and maybes that apply to all the other 14yr olds who cost nothing.

Edited September 9, 2025Sep 9 by C3blue

1 hour ago, evissy said:

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

So as usual you dont actually have an opinion,. just regurgitating nonsense you read somewhere. I dont know why I bothered asking.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

Those things are inherently bo**ocks. Go back and look at the top prospets for any given year and you'll see most of them never go anywhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2020/may/01/premier-league-best-young-players-2010-decade-later

• Vito Mannone - Who?

• Rafael - sh*t

• Phil Jones - sh*t

• Emiliano Insúa - Who?

• etc...

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/goalcom-hot-100-the-young-stars-to-look-out-for-in-2011/blt51e0736d53f4ab22

• Frank Acheampong - who?

• Juan Agudelo - who?

• Thiago Alcantara - hit

• Karim Ansarifard - who?

• etc..

Find some more and it's the same story. 99% of these top prospects/wonderkids won't make it. You can stockpile them if you so choose, but you'll be lucky if 1 or 2 make it into the first team.

On subject, I don't think George will be a top player. The fee from Fulham would have been a good deal. but equally, i'd rather we gave him a go at improving than spunk £60m on someone like Gittens who we then still have to wait and see if they improve.

Edited September 9, 2025Sep 9 by Zeta

27 minutes ago, dkw said:

So as usual you dont actually have an opinion,. just regurgitating nonsense you read somewhere. I dont know why I bothered asking.

But transfer market, EA sports and football manager all say they are good so it must be true.

Don’t believe what you see with your own eyes believe the internet and tv they never lie or get things wrong.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So as usual you dont actually have an opinion,. just regurgitating nonsense you read somewhere. I dont know why I bothered asking.

My opinion is George is not the top level prospect we should go after/keep. My eye-test and the ranking I posted is telling the same story. That is probably why the club is not keeping hold of him like they do with James for example.

12 minutes ago, evissy said:

My opinion is George is not the top level prospect we should go after/keep. My eye-test and the ranking I posted is telling the same story. That is probably why the club is not keeping hold of him like they do with James for example.

The club did not want to keep hold of Chalobah and wanted to keep Disasi and Badiashille, look how that worked out. George may not be a world class winger but neither are Garnacho nor Gittens and the board splashed £100m on those two.

George may go on to be elite but at some point you have to make a decision.

Based on what he has displayed so far even when he has played left wing, theres not much worth taking a chance on. It’s not entirely his fault either I just don’t think he suits this team as a left winger which would also explain why Maresca keeps playing him striker.

If we had a Palmer like player on the left as well I would be more open to keeping him but as it stands I would rather go with a more experienced player in Garnacho and a higher potential player in Gittens even if we did massively overpay.

8 hours ago, markpitts said:

To put the 7.1% conversion rate into perspective, the much maligned Madueke is at 17.4%

Won’t be surprised if by Dec Tyrique George is ahead of Gittens and Garnacho in the pecking order. Early days but you get the feeling Maresca isn’t sold on Gittens. Heard he struggled v The Kazakh U21s despite being the most expensive player on the pitch.

With Garnacho he has been schooled in a counter attacking system, will be interesting to see how he adapts to a team controlling possession. He is another one who flourishes when he has space to run into but struggles with decision making, finishing and shot selection.

Thanks for this information mark 👍

8 hours ago, evissy said:

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

You weren't mentioning any stats at all when you decided he wasn't good enough. It was all " based on his performances so far" Then, realising you hadn't actually seen him play you went digging up facts !

On 26/08/2025 at 12:52, evissy said:

It looks like he is being sold. Good level player with good future ahead of him but I personally see him more of a lower level side player than Chelsea level.

You thought he was a good level player a few weeks ago , now you're saying you've never seen him play !

8 hours ago, evissy said:

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

1You can tell he's not good enough for Chelsea by looking at a website called "Transfer Market" !!

😂

Edited September 9, 2025Sep 9 by The Rising Sun
Info

8 hours ago, evissy said:

If you look at their rankings on top prospects from all English-born players u21's George is number 21. From entire world he is on position 182.

Lamine is number 1., Estevao 5., Gittens 17., Guenda 18., Garnacho 22.

Now this is just a money-list and Transfermarkts product but I trust it more than your eye-test hope you don't mind.

I think as a club we aspire to have players from lets say top 20 rather than top 200.

Most valuable players

Wtf is this piece of nonsense? Interesting you say we don’t want players at position 182 but position 176 is ok? Or maybe the wonder kid we lost to the Scousers isn’t going to make it either at 174!

He’s young player just starting off on his career, who hasn’t yet played enough at a first team level to really have a rating. Judge him when he’s played enough first team games to warrant a rating.

34 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

You weren't mentioning any stats at all when you decided he wasn't good enough. It was all " based on his performances so far" Then, realising you hadn't actually seen him play you went digging up facts !

I have probably seen every minute of him for our first team for whatever that is worth. I am not the decider of his future.

He's not England u21 first choice, he is down the pecking order amongst our attackers, he wanted to leave to Fulham to look for a new start. Not sure what I need to write here.

I hope he finds a good level club for his future. Hard to see him at a top Prem side anytime soon once he finds a new club. I didn't mind him being in the. Squad but I am pretty sure he prefers to be somewhere else.

Re transfemarkt: has around 50 million visits per month.

Given the exertion of the CWC, the increase in intensity from CL football and the fact that Palmer and several players are picking up injuries regularly, it's shrewd to keep him at the club. Its a long season and im sure he'll get quite a lot of minutes.

Definitely, hes not played enough football for us for anyone to make judgments on his long term ability. Game time breeds confidence and goals and assists. The little ive watched of him suggests he needs confidence, we need solid players who will turn up and not hide. He certainly has that in his locker. Wait and see with him, hope he sticks at it with us.

2 hours ago, evissy said:

I have probably seen every minute of him for our first team for whatever that is worth. I am not the decider of his future.

He's not England u21 first choice, he is down the pecking order amongst our attackers, he wanted to leave to Fulham to look for a new start. Not sure what I need to write here.

I hope he finds a good level club for his future. Hard to see him at a top Prem side anytime soon once he finds a new club. I didn't mind him being in the. Squad but I am pretty sure he prefers to be somewhere else.

Re transfemarkt: has around 50 million visits per month.

He's not an England U21 first choice ??

He was only called up for the England U21 squad at the end of this August, a week or so ago.

August 29 from the club website...

"Josh Acheampong and Tyrique George have earned their first call-ups to the England Under-21 squad while Jamie Gittens is also selected by manager Lee Carsley."

9 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

He's not an England U21 first choice ??

He was only called up for the England U21 squad at the end of this August, a week or so ago.

August 29 from the club website...

"Josh Acheampong and Tyrique George have earned their first call-ups to the England Under-21 squad while Jamie Gittens is also selected by manager Lee Carsley."

Simple question: If you at this very moment had to choose at gunpoint to start in an important game a winger. Your choices are Estevao and George. Which one do you choose?

The question answers two things: do you want what is best for Chelsea and which player you prefer from the two.

George himself, by reports, really wanted to leave the club as he wants to play. Which to me is the most natural thing in the world. I think in January they'll try the move again if we are not in a massive limbo due to injuries.

By buying a ton of youth international level talents tells the level of Cobham youth as well. If we had tons of top level (James, Estevao, Palmer, Madueke) youth at our ranks there would be very little need for it. No club at youth level has that.

I understand the pride behind fielding your club youth. No one is denying that or is against it but I personally prefer the best possible squad over forcing club youth to the side.

George may well have said look if I’m not going to play I’d rather go, who wouldn’t. Would he have said that if Gittens and Garnacho hadn’t been signed?

Same thing happened at Citeh with Palmer a decision I’m sure they now regret.

It’s a shame because we know a lot of these deals are done for accountancy reasons and not necessarily football. Instant pure profit against kicking the debt can down the road.

Most clubs are doing it to some extent and it’s a real shame.

43 minutes ago, evissy said:

Simple question: If you at this very moment had to choose at gunpoint to start in an important game a winger. Your choices are Estevao and George. Which one do you choose?

The question answers two things: do you want what is best for Chelsea and which player you prefer from the two.

George himself, by reports, really wanted to leave the club as he wants to play. Which to me is the most natural thing in the world. I think in January they'll try the move again if we are not in a massive limbo due to injuries.

By buying a ton of youth international level talents tells the level of Cobham youth as well. If we had tons of top level (James, Estevao, Palmer, Madueke) youth at our ranks there would be very little need for it. No club at youth level has that.

I understand the pride behind fielding your club youth. No one is denying that or is against it but I personally prefer the best possible squad over forcing club youth to the side.

I wouldnt choose either. Palmer and Neto are first names down on the team sheet this season as that is what is best for Chelsea.

What does buying tons of talent mean to you? The implication theyre not good enough right? That's wrong because it was demonstrated clearly last season with Chalobah and the emergence of George are better than what we're buying in. Not forgetting we sold Gallagher and others to pay for the youth we're signing.

Madueke was a player the club signed. Looked on it last night for England... Maresca is the problem this team has.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Simple question: If you at this very moment had to choose at gunpoint to start in an important game a winger. Your choices are Estevao and George. Which one do you choose?

The question answers two things: do you want what is best for Chelsea and which player you prefer from the two.

George himself, by reports, really wanted to leave the club as he wants to play. Which to me is the most natural thing in the world. I think in January they'll try the move again if we are not in a massive limbo due to injuries.

By buying a ton of youth international level talents tells the level of Cobham youth as well. If we had tons of top level (James, Estevao, Palmer, Madueke) youth at our ranks there would be very little need for it. No club at youth level has that.

I understand the pride behind fielding your club youth. No one is denying that or is against it but I personally prefer the best possible squad over forcing club youth to the side.

That is a weird question as Estevao and George play on different sides of the pitch. No one is arguing that George would play ahead of Neto, on the left, but that he's a good bench option and we could have saved £100m spent on Garnacho and Gittens, who do not improve what Neto provides. The question is, who do you prefer as a bench option, George or Garnacho/Gittens? And, could have we spent £100m on a better left winger that would start ahead of Neto, Garnacho and Gittens?

7 hours ago, C3blue said:

George may well have said look if I’m not going to play I’d rather go, who wouldn’t. Would he have said that if Gittens and Garnacho hadn’t been signed?

Same thing happened at Citeh with Palmer a decision I’m sure they now regret.

It’s a shame because we know a lot of these deals are done for accountancy reasons and not necessarily football. Instant pure profit against kicking the debt can down the road.

Most clubs are doing it to some extent and it’s a real shame.

Sterling. Bogarde.

7 hours ago, RMH said:

That is a weird question as Estevao and George play on different sides of the pitch. No one is arguing that George would play ahead of Neto, on the left, but that he's a good bench option and we could have saved £100m spent on Garnacho and Gittens, who do not improve what Neto provides. The question is, who do you prefer as a bench option, George or Garnacho/Gittens? And, could have we spent £100m on a better left winger that would start ahead of Neto, Garnacho and Gittens?

It's not a weird question - it is simply comparing 2 young, wide attackers, as a way of making a point. Not an actual question about choosing 1 or the other to play out of position.

He could have said, something like the manager is being forced, with a gun to his head to play only 1 young attacker under the age of 20... in the most important game in the clubs history.... which should he choose to give the team the best chance of winning.

And the answer is, or should be, Estavao. Steveo has looked far more skilled, confident, ahead in his development than Angry Saka. 1 plays with a smile. The other plays with a frown. 1 is natural and clearly very gifted, with what looks like potential to be a player who can contribute regularly to Chelsea in the long term. The other looks no bad - but ultimately a MOR young player, who should be looking to have a long and strong career -but probably not with a team looking to challenge at the very top.

EDIT: Oh, and to answer the question. I would prefer Either Gittens or Garnacho on the Bench over George. Not because they cost more - but because simply they are much better.

Edited September 10, 2025Sep 10 by nonotnowjim

34 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

It's not a weird question - it is simply comparing 2 young, wide attackers, as a way of making a point. Not an actual question about choosing 1 or the other to play out of position.

He could have said, something like the manager is being forced, with a gun to his head to play only 1 young attacker under the age of 20... in the most important game in the clubs history.... which should he choose to give the team the best chance of winning.

And the answer is, or should be, Estavao. Steveo has looked far more skilled, confident, ahead in his development than Angry Saka. 1 plays with a smile. The other plays with a frown. 1 is natural and clearly very gifted, with what looks like potential to be a player who can contribute regularly to Chelsea in the long term. The other looks no bad - but ultimately a MOR young player, who should be looking to have a long and strong career -but probably not with a team looking to challenge at the very top.

EDIT: Oh, and to answer the question. I would prefer Either Gittens or Garnacho on the Bench over George. Not because they cost more - but because simply they are much better.

it's a weird question because playing on different places there could be a George........Estevao lineup at some point during a game. The question should be, would you rather have George and Estevao on the bench or Garnacho, Gittens and Estevao on the bench. I don't see much difference at this time of the season, and we could have saved £100m having George and Estevao.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Sterling. Bogarde.

Yeah but George isn’t at the end of his career on a fat contract so no comparison whatsoever.

Edited September 10, 2025Sep 10 by C3blue

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

It's not a weird question - it is simply comparing 2 young, wide attackers, as a way of making a point. Not an actual question about choosing 1 or the other to play out of position.

He could have said, something like the manager is being forced, with a gun to his head to play only 1 young attacker under the age of 20... in the most important game in the clubs history.... which should he choose to give the team the best chance of winning.

And the answer is, or should be, Estavao. Steveo has looked far more skilled, confident, ahead in his development than Angry Saka. 1 plays with a smile. The other plays with a frown. 1 is natural and clearly very gifted, with what looks like potential to be a player who can contribute regularly to Chelsea in the long term. The other looks no bad - but ultimately a MOR young player, who should be looking to have a long and strong career -but probably not with a team looking to challenge at the very top.

EDIT: Oh, and to answer the question. I would prefer Either Gittens or Garnacho on the Bench over George. Not because they cost more - but because simply they are much better.

Agreed. And at this times in their careers, their position is fluid; they (or their coaches) may find that they work better inverted, CAM, or seeking width... who knows?!
Estevao will be in Brazil WC team next year, and reckon he will play quite a bit; he will likely rotate given that Brazil has Vini Jr and Raphinha on the wings, but he's not far behind them.

Edited September 10, 2025Sep 10 by acaeus