9 minutes ago, markpitts said:

Left out of the Brazilian World Cup squad, glad common sense has prevailed. He has had a very strange debut season, and i can’t make my mind up about him.

Given his injury, lack of playing time and our managerial circus, the only sensible conclusion is that he has amazing potential (as evidenced in the CL) and needs a good team and mentoring around him to achieve it.

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Given his injury, lack of playing time and our managerial circus, the only sensible conclusion is that he has amazing potential (as evidenced in the CL) and needs a good team and mentoring around him to achieve it.

ie a Transfer

1 hour ago, markpitts said:

Left out of the Brazilian World Cup squad, glad common sense has prevailed. He has had a very strange debut season, and i can’t make my mind up about him. Best thing that could happen to him in the long run is we sell Enzo, move Palmer into the “10” so he can get game time on the RW.

Expecting a (then) 17 year old inexperienced lad to take the PL by storm was always unrealistic. He has obvious ability, a lot of it, and needs nurturing. Hoofing the ball in his general direction and expecting him to beat usually two defenders isn't on but that's what was happening more often than not. His petulance was inexperience and frustration. Under the right coach he will go far.

12 minutes ago, dermott said:

Expecting a (then) 17 year old inexperienced lad to take the PL by storm was always unrealistic. He has obvious ability, a lot of it, and needs nurturing. Hoofing the ball in his general direction and expecting him to beat usually two defenders isn't on but that's what was happening more often than not. His petulance was inexperience and frustration. Under the right coach he will go far.

*19; fair point though. He came with a high reputation compared to Rayan & Kroupi , who are both also 19 & had much better seasons in comparison.

Feel sorry for him, but either way I think Ancelotti would have used him as a sub at most. Even without the injury, he did not have a season to warrant a starting spot at the World Cup. Would have been even harder now with Brentford's Igor Thiago rapid rise at the top.

2 hours ago, markpitts said:

Left out of the Brazilian World Cup squad, glad common sense has prevailed. He has had a very strange debut season, and i can’t make my mind up about him. Best thing that could happen to him in the long run is we sell Enzo, move Palmer into the “10” so he can get game time on the RW.

I don't think he has strange debut season, more like absolutely stupid season.

I have seen this story again and again. Just absolutely stupid. The kid is legit good but the kid is not ready. Then you give him too many minutes, hammy snapped.

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think he has strange debut season, more like absolutely stupid season.

I have seen this story again and again. Just absolutely stupid. The kid is legit good but the kid is not ready. Then you give him too many minutes, hammy snapped.

He only played 1600 minutes. No more than Kroupi has played and a lot less than he was playing in an incredibly physical Brazilian league.

33 minutes ago, markpitts said:

*19; fair point though. He came with a high reputation compared to Rayan & Kroupi , who are both also 19 & had much better seasons in comparison.

Just turned 18 when he joined us. Not that it matters. Rayan and Kroupi have a major advantage: playing in a system under a very good manager who knows how to utilise them.

3 hours ago, markpitts said:

Left out of the Brazilian World Cup squad, glad common sense has prevailed. He has had a very strange debut season, and i can’t make my mind up about him. Best thing that could happen to him in the long run is we sell Enzo, move Palmer into the “10” so he can get game time on the RW.

TBF, I think Maresca leaving is possibly the best thing for our attacking players. He killed palmer, stevo was heading that way... I still think palmer should be out wide and Stevo the 10 tbh... dont forget we have quenda or glenda whatever coming in from portugal this summer... expect more of the same next season from him as stevos this term.

Hope he enjoys the summer off and is back fit and raring to go with us next season... with a proper manager on board.

3 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

TBF, I think Maresca leaving is possibly the best thing for our attacking players. He killed palmer, stevo was heading that way... I still think palmer should be out wide and Stevo the 10 tbh... dont forget we have quenda or glenda whatever coming in from portugal this summer... expect more of the same next season from him as stevos this term.

Hope he enjoys the summer off and is back fit and raring to go with us next season... with a proper manager on board.

Problem with Palmer out wide is a lack of pace, and he can’t carry the ball. For a top club in the PL facing a low block, you either have one or the other, preferably both. He will just either keep passing it back, or trying to offload it quickly.

As for Estevao, way too early to play that role. Ball retention isn’t there yet, and you are in trouble ones he loses it. Palmer is a few years ahead of him in that role development wise.

2 hours ago, markpitts said:

Problem with Palmer out wide is a lack of pace, and he can’t carry the ball. For a top club in the PL facing a low block, you either have one or the other, preferably both. He will just either keep passing it back, or trying to offload it quickly.

As for Estevao, way too early to play that role. Ball retention isn’t there yet, and you are in trouble ones he loses it. Palmer is a few years ahead of him in that role development wise.

IMO palmer when fit and fully raring to go doesnt need pace, he has that top player glide thing that helps him go past people.

Poor old stevo in my opinion. Fingers crossed his second season is an improvement.

2 hours ago, markpitts said:

Problem with Palmer out wide is a lack of pace, and he can’t carry the ball. For a top club in the PL facing a low block, you either have one or the other, preferably both. He will just either keep passing it back, or trying to offload it quickly.

Its literally how he played 23/24 and almost all of last season where he had a huge amount of Goals and assists, actual record amounts in 23/24, carrying the ball more than anyone. No idea how you can think that.

I honestly found Estevao a little underwhelming, considering all the hype. Had a few bright moments and obviously got bags of talent, but most of the time when he played in the PL he looked like a child against men, just bullied and out-muscled. Be interesting to see if he spends any of this time off bulking up at all.

41 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its literally how he played 23/24 and almost all of last season where he had a huge amount of Goals and assists, actual record amounts in 23/24, carrying the ball more than anyone. No idea how you can think that.

It also helped that he had players running, offering themselves. This season he's been slowing, stopping, looking for opportunities.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Its literally how he played 23/24 and almost all of last season where he had a huge amount of Goals and assists, actual record amounts in 23/24, carrying the ball more than anyone. No idea how you can think that.

Everyone seems to think this, but he actually started as a RW in 13 PL games under Pochettino, and 12 PL games as a “10”. His most productive stretch that season was as a “10” in Pochettino’s last 8 PL games where he scored 6 goals & 3 assists. We picked up 20pts out of 24 in those games.

6 hours ago, markpitts said:

*19; fair point though. He came with a high reputation compared to Rayan & Kroupi , who are both also 19 & had much better seasons in comparison.

Different styles of football, and ours hurt Estevao a lot. Rayan and Kroupi would have struggled with us. Teams don't sit back against Bournemouth like they do with us, so they have more freedom to play. Estevao was often isolated in 2v1 situations and he played a much slower style of football than he was was used to. Estevao is a very direct player, our football couldn't be more opposite.

4 hours ago, markpitts said:

Everyone seems to think this, but he actually started as a RW in 13 PL games under Pochettino, and 12 PL games as a “10”. His most productive stretch that season was as a “10” in Pochettino’s last 8 PL games where he scored 6 goals & 3 assists. We picked up 20pts out of 24 in those games.

4 of those goals and assists were in one game against Everton. The rest were just single contribution. For example, the 8 games before that at RW he had 7 goals and 4 assists. So no, his most productive stretch was at RW like DKW said.

Is Estevao that good or are we all just desperate for something to go right. One of these signings to work. It’s his first season and he is young but as has been mentioned other youngsters in their first seasons have had bigger impacts at a fraction of the price.

I hope he has a rest, comes back and works under a proper coach and kicks on and it’s not just another piece of terrible business by the geniuses at the club.

1 hour ago, GarnachoCheese said:

4 of those goals and assists were in one game against Everton. The rest were just single contribution. For example, the 8 games before that at RW he had 7 goals and 4 assists. So no, his most productive stretch was at RW like DKW said.

By that same measure; you could argue that in his 13 appearances on the RW, 7 out of his 12 goals were pens.

10 hours ago, markpitts said:

By that same measure; you could argue that in his 13 appearances on the RW, 7 out of his 12 goals were pens.

So his most productive stretch was still at RW?

16 hours ago, markpitts said:

Everyone seems to think this, but he actually started as a RW in 13 PL games under Pochettino, and 12 PL games as a “10”. His most productive stretch that season was as a “10” in Pochettino’s last 8 PL games where he scored 6 goals & 3 assists. We picked up 20pts out of 24 in those games.

Thats not even close to being true, as much as you want to use stats to prove something we all remember the season and he was isolated and almost worthless playing as a 10 in many many games that season. Complete waste of time having him there as he had no idea what to do and was easily marked out of the game. Every time he went back to RW he was causing havoc for defences.

My thinking here is if Palmer is profiled long term as a RW by the next manager, we might as well sell Estevao before the window closes. The two of them can’t share the same position.

I also feel a top club in the PL needs a ball carrier on one wing, and a player who attacks the space on the other wing due to the low blocks. Doku is probably the best ball carrier in the PL, and we all saw what damage Ngumoha could do last weekend. The closest we have to that profile is Estevao, but he is presently inferior to the aforementioned two. He needs to be a nailed on first team player if we are a serious club, which shifts Palmer to the “10”. I also don’t want to see Enzo masquerading as a “10” next season if he stays, and would rather move him back to the position we paid €115m for.

1 minute ago, markpitts said:

I also don’t want to see Enzo masquerading as a “10” next season if he stays, and would rather move him back to the position we paid €115m for.

Once again the Enzo issue raises its head, shoehorning him into the side always weakens the side.

He’s not cut out for the PL, a sale is best for both parties.

The most important task of the next manager has to be a way to get our best XI on the pitch every game and that means both Stevie & CP.

51 minutes ago, markpitts said:

My thinking here is if Palmer is profiled long term as a RW by the next manager, we might as well sell Estevao before the window closes. The two of them can’t share the same position.

I also feel a top club in the PL needs a ball carrier on one wing, and a player who attacks the space on the other wing due to the low blocks. Doku is probably the best ball carrier in the PL, and we all saw what damage Ngumoha could do last weekend. The closest we have to that profile is Estevao, but he is presently inferior to the aforementioned two. He needs to be a nailed on first team player if we are a serious club, which shifts Palmer to the “10”. I also don’t want to see Enzo masquerading as a “10” next season if he stays, and would rather move him back to the position we paid €115m for.

Estevao and even the club have publicly said the see him playing centrally long term. Palmer can play centrally or on the wing too. We also have Quenda coming in who's very good at carrying the ball. I don't see this being an issue for any manager worth their salt.

The issue is midfield and fullbacks. I rate Cucurella but he can't carry the ball. Neither can Gusto without losing it. James is being used conservatively with how much he advances. Enzo is a snail. Lavia can't carry. That just leaves Caicedo.

@SydneyChelsea

Don’t grade 3 tears typically require surgery?