3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Also a CB like his dad I believe.

Isn’t the kid also representing England at the youth level?

Estevao isn’t ready yet for the defensive side to the game. Don’t get me wrong he definitely tracks back but for me he lacks the defensive discipline needed especially if we’re down to 10.

It will come though because he’s definitely willing to do it.

11 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Needs protecting because he skied a few shots over the bar? He was our best attacker before the red card. Even the best players blast a few shots over the bar, Salah has a sh*t ton of them.

I confirmed with NASA this morning the ball he shot is now in lower Earth orbit above New Zealand. ;-)

Look, I get the passion about the guy, but the hype around him is unreal, its like everyone is holding out for the second coming of Hazard of Zola, but to say he was our best player before being hooked after the red, didnt see that im afraid. I'm delighted hes a chelsea player and starting to do things on the pitch for us but that's where it ends, Palmer destroyed the league playing in his position. Its really great isnt it we have his talent because he's an entertainer and we all love those types of players... But that shot and others he's done this season just show how much development and filling out he still needs to do. Hopefully he'll be a bonkers player for us over the coming seasons.

Imagine the stink on here if it was Jackson, Enzo (regularly does close his eyes when shooting) or Neto who shot like he did against Arsenal... the meltdown would be epic on here... See last season's Jackson thread.

23 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

I confirmed with NASA this morning the ball he shot is now in lower Earth orbit above New Zealand. ;-)

Look, I get the passion about the guy, but the hype around him is unreal, its like everyone is holding out for the second coming of Hazard of Zola, but to say he was our best player before being hooked after the red, didnt see that im afraid. I'm delighted hes a chelsea player and starting to do things on the pitch for us but that's where it ends, Palmer destroyed the league playing in his position. Its really great isnt it we have his talent because he's an entertainer and we all love those types of players... But that shot and others he's done this season just show how much development and filling out he still needs to do. Hopefully he'll be a bonkers player for us over the coming seasons.

Imagine the stink on here if it was Jackson, Enzo (regularly does close his eyes when shooting) or Neto who shot like he did against Arsenal... the meltdown would be epic on here... See last season's Jackson thread.

Well, I think this view point probably puts you in an exclusive club of "one" ... so congratulations !

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Well, I think this view point probably puts you in an exclusive club of "one" ... so congratulations !

Who cares. Thats why forums exist.

At least im not having a mental breakdown over it and abusing you all.

this player is going to be great, but I'll wait for it to arrive consistently and regularly, like I have done with other top talents to have played for us. going to enjoy watching the development too and make fun of his toe punts into orbit. Watching players develop is now part of the package of being a chelsea fan.

Top, established players dont swing and miss shots like Stevo did against Arsenal. They improve from it. What it shows is that the temperament/ composure isn't there yet. Its not the first time its happened, he's also missed easy chances against others.

Work in progress - enjoy it.

35 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

but to say he was our best player before being hooked after the red, didnt see that im afraid.

You might want to go and rewatch the first half, he had Calafiori on ice skates. There's a reason they hooked their LB at half time.

Just now, GarnachoCheese said:

You might want to go and rewatch the first half, he had Calafiori on ice skates. There's a reason they hooked their LB at half time.

Not into group think. If he was so good, why wasnt he kept on? What is it about his game that wasnt suitable to playing with 10 men?

Look, for one player stats dont matter for another they do. Be consistent.

Anyhow, we all see it differently. Currently, Delap is the player to get both barrels, sure that'll change over the next six months.

2 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

Not into group think. If he was so good, why wasnt he kept on? What is it about his game that wasnt suitable to playing with 10 men?

Look, for one player stats dont matter for another they do. Be consistent.

Anyhow, we all see it differently. Currently, Delap is the player to get both barrels, sure that'll change over the next six months.

For the same reason that Maresca did the changes that he did against Man Utd and Brighton.

1 hour ago, RMH said:

For the same reason that Maresca did the changes that he did against Man Utd and Brighton.

And what were those reasons? To win the game... You can argue about the players removed but as another poster has pointed out, Stevo isnt going to track back and put a slide challenge in or do a defensive shift which is what was needed.

Edited December 2, 2025Dec 2 by bluelightening

Similarly to bluelightning I’m not going overboard with the Estevao praise as yet. He’s doing really well but I get the feeling we’re only seeing a fraction of what he will become at Chelsea.

I’ve absolutely no doubt he will improve dramatically in the future and over the season.

His end product is ok but not exceptional as yet and his defensive work needs improvement.

I suppose I hold him to a very high bar because of his undoubted talent and I’ve no doubt in my mind he’ll get there soon but I’m really enjoying watching him play with the knowledge that he’s a fair way short of what he will be this time next season.

32 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

And what were those reasons? To win the game... You can argue about the players removed but as another poster has pointed out, Stevo isnt going to track back and put a slide challenge in or do a defensive shift which is what was needed.

That's not your argument though, you said he wasn't that good. Now your argument is that he isn't defensive enough?

He was our best attacker in that first half by far going forward.

Arsenal would have been delighted to see Estevao subbed off at HT.

47 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

And what were those reasons? To win the game... You can argue about the players removed but as another poster has pointed out, Stevo isnt going to track back and put a slide challenge in or do a defensive shift which is what was needed.

Nope, those changes at Utd, especially, stopped us having any attack possibility, effectively making us loose. So no, they were not made to win but, I suspect, not to loose. If you think that Maresca changed all attackers for defenders to win the game, then I can't really tell you much more.

3 minutes ago, RMH said:

Nope, those changes at Utd, especially, stopped us having any attack possibility, effectively making us loose. So no, they were not made to win but, I suspect, not to loose. If you think that Maresca changed all attackers for defenders to win the game, then I can't really tell you much more.

Huh? Didn't Maresca replace Estevao with another winger?

Well I know which winger I'd pick if I wanted someone who was better defensively and provided more attacking threat LOL

Also quite amusing that the so-called "defensive" winger (Mr Neto) who was left on instead of Estevao was as culpable as anyone for poor positioning for the Merino goal, to the point that he actually backed away from where the ball went, despite having a great view of Merino earlier in the play. Also seemed oblivious to Noni behind him.

Cucurella understandably went nuts at him.

I am guessing Estevao is chomping at the bit for the Leeds game.

For one because Cole is back and we saw before Estevao arrived their budding friendship and desire to team up. For another he will have known he was sacrificed for a better defensive winger in Garnacho when he had the excellent Calafiori begging for mercy.

Given Cole needs a start it should be the two of them plus garnacho vs Leeds given neto played the full 90 vs Arsenal. Could be gittens in place of garnacho i guess.

Edited December 2, 2025Dec 2 by axman2526

16 minutes ago, RMH said:

Nope, those changes at Utd, especially, stopped us having any attack possibility, effectively making us loose. So no, they were not made to win but, I suspect, not to loose. If you think that Maresca changed all attackers for defenders to win the game, then I can't really tell you much more.

That's my point. He wasnt left on the pitch because the needs for the team. Whether that works or not is on the manager but down to 10 men, you need everyone working defensively. Can we rely on stevo to do that job? Maresca doesnt think so, hence why he was subbed off.

37 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

That's not your argument though, you said he wasn't that good. Now your argument is that he isn't defensive enough?

He was our best attacker in that first half by far going forward.

Great... when we were 11v11... if he was good at the defensive side of the game he would have most likely been left on the pitch wouldnt he?

36 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Arsenal would have been delighted to see Estevao subbed off at HT.

No doubt... but they would also have loved the fact we were down to 10 men and set up for the second half accordingly and did.

I'd also argue Sanchez had a mare in not coming for a cross inside the six-yard box over Neto being in the wrong place. That was keepers ball to punch or clean out the box all day long and win a free kick jumping with Morino. He was rooted on his line.

6 of us on five of them in those images, while James was a collusus, he's not picking anyone up and is marking space. Gusto isnt even goal side of Merino and is looking at him. Where are is fofana and chalobah, cucurella let the ball come into the box as well.

=========

Lets not forget, had he put his chance away that he ballooned into space, we would have possibly been 2-0 ahead by the time they scored their goal. That miss, regardless of what you think is simply a lack of composure. See Jackson thread last season - Its not a bad thing, he's young and will learn.... but does Cole Palmer lash that over from there? dont think he does.

Barca was a garnish to our league campaign and they played 60 mins at 10 men. Arsenal at home is the bread and butter of our season and we played 45 mins with 10 men.

Dont get me wrong love Stevo, but there's a lot more to come and improve from him. Im looking forward to it.

26 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

That's my point. He wasnt left on the pitch because the needs for the team. Whether that works or not is on the manager but down to 10 men, you need everyone working defensively. Can we rely on stevo to do that job? Maresca doesnt think so, hence why he was subbed off.

Great... when we were 11v11... if he was good at the defensive side of the game he would have most likely been left on the pitch wouldnt he?

No doubt... but they would also have loved the fact we were down to 10 men and set up for the second half accordingly and did.

I'd also argue Sanchez had a mare in not coming for a cross inside the six-yard box over Neto being in the wrong place. That was keepers ball to punch or clean out the box all day long and win a free kick jumping with Morino. He was rooted on his line.

6 of us on five of them in those images, while James was a collusus, he's not picking anyone up and is marking space. Gusto isnt even goal side of Merino and is looking at him. Where are is fofana and chalobah, cucurella let the ball come into the box as well.

=========

Lets not forget, had he put his chance away that he ballooned into space, we would have possibly been 2-0 ahead by the time they scored their goal. That miss, regardless of what you think is simply a lack of composure. See Jackson thread last season - Its not a bad thing, he's young and will learn.... but does Cole Palmer lash that over from there? dont think he does.

Barca was a garnish to our league campaign and they played 60 mins at 10 men. Arsenal at home is the bread and butter of our season and we played 45 mins with 10 men.

Dont get me wrong love Stevo, but there's a lot more to come and improve from him. Im looking forward to it.

Do you play attackers because they're good defensively or because they're creative geniuses? Would you ask Hazard to track his man?

What argument are you even making at this point? You said he wasn't very good. That was proven false. Now you saying he doesn't track his man?

Ten goal contributions for club and country in just 1,000 minutes is pretty decent for an 18-year-old.

Every player misses chances—it’s part of the game. Even Cole Palmer has missed absolute sitters, but no one questions his composure. The real struggles in front of goal were from guys like Werner and Jackson, and Estevão is nowhere near that level. I personally don't have any complaints so far.

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Huh? Didn't Maresca replace Estevao with another winger?

Not against ManU, which is what I was referring to with my reply to Bluelightening comment, Jorgensen for Estevao, Tosin for Neto and Santos for Palmer, those were Maresca's subs after the send off and ManU's first goal.

1 hour ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Do you play attackers because they're good defensively or because they're creative geniuses? Would you ask Hazard to track his man?

What argument are you even making at this point? You said he wasn't very good. That was proven false. Now you saying he doesn't track his man?

Sorry if you dont graasp the basics of winning and losing and the margins in between... But...

Stevo didnt have an effect on the game and the chance he had was ballooned into orbit, was then subbed off to get a result, was sacrificed for others in the team game.

Football is a team game based on results. Not if a player you like is subbed on or off the field. Here's the rub. The manager thought we'd do better without him on the pitch, a decision sort of vindicated by the result that Stevo had no bearing on. So to answer your question, you bring players on to get results in a results business. (Maresca has got this wrong before but got it right on the weekend as we got a point) Understand the point now?

12 hours ago, bluelightening said:

I confirmed with NASA this morning the ball he shot is now in lower Earth orbit above New Zealand. ;-)

Look, I get the passion about the guy, but the hype around him is unreal, its like everyone is holding out for the second coming of Hazard of Zola, but to say he was our best player before being hooked after the red, didnt see that im afraid. I'm delighted hes a chelsea player and starting to do things on the pitch for us but that's where it ends, Palmer destroyed the league playing in his position. Its really great isnt it we have his talent because he's an entertainer and we all love those types of players... But that shot and others he's done this season just show how much development and filling out he still needs to do. Hopefully he'll be a bonkers player for us over the coming seasons.

Imagine the stink on here if it was Jackson, Enzo (regularly does close his eyes when shooting) or Neto who shot like he did against Arsenal... the meltdown would be epic on here... See last season's Jackson thread.

I didn't say he was our best player, I said he was our best attacker.

If Palmer was only given 135 minutes in 7 league games, do you think he would have destroyed the league playing in that position? I can answer that for you and it's a no, because Palmer played 165 minutes in our first 7 games and scored no goals. Do you think Palmer would have destroyed the league if the majority of his starts were disrupted by players getting sent off? Estevao has started 5 league games and in 3 of those games we had a red card. When Palmer scored his first league goal for us, he started the next 5 games. Estevao scores his first league goal, and he doesn't start a game for another 6. I think the comparison with Palmer has too many holes in it.

That shot and others? I don't see the problem with his shooting in all honesty, I think it's been fine.

I think the comparisons with Jackson, Enzo and Neto are ridiculous, especially Jackson. Jackson became so much of a net negative at times that he became unbearable to watch, so if he had missed a good chance, there would be more context as to why people would be more pissed at him. Estevao having two poor shots after 2 months of looking like the most gifted young player in world football is a very different situation, and not something I feel needs any negative attention or sudden calls for us to calm down on the hype.

Amazing to see anyone zero in on him because of one bad shot, hes 18 and scored in each of his last 7 games for us and Brazil, theres a reason hes being given more leeway than others for gods sake.

But then we are all group thinkers and not amazing individual brainers I suppose..

15 hours ago, bluelightening said:

Sorry if you dont graasp the basics of winning and losing and the margins in between... But...

Stevo didnt have an effect on the game and the chance he had was ballooned into orbit, was then subbed off to get a result, was sacrificed for others in the team game.

Football is a team game based on results. Not if a player you like is subbed on or off the field. Here's the rub. The manager thought we'd do better without him on the pitch, a decision sort of vindicated by the result that Stevo had no bearing on. So to answer your question, you bring players on to get results in a results business. (Maresca has got this wrong before but got it right on the weekend as we got a point) Understand the point now?

A lot of typing to say nothing.

You said he wasn't our best player in the first half, many people have showed you evidence he was. You've judged him on one shot rather than the whole half. Its not our fault you either watch the match with your eyes closed or only watch the highlight videos after.

Neto didn't track his man for the Arsenal goal, perhaps had he kept Esteavo on, not only would we have created more but also not conceded.

I'm glad you're happy with a draw though, i personally would rather see us win. I guess that's the difference in standards though.

FFS... some proper melts and selective reading going on.

Ive not said Estevao is bad, Ive said the complete opposite. Worth noting young players lack composure at points during games and it would appear people cant see the humour in the posting about his shot being in lower orbit...

He's far from the finished article yet... he isnt better than palmer either, but I fully expect him to reach his level.

18 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

A lot of typing to say nothing.

You said he wasn't our best player in the first half, many people have showed you evidence he was. You've judged him on one shot rather than the whole half. Its not our fault you either watch the match with your eyes closed or only watch the highlight videos after.

Neto didn't track his man for the Arsenal goal, perhaps had he kept Esteavo on, not only would we have created more but also not conceded.

I'm glad you're happy with a draw though, i personally would rather see us win. I guess that's the difference in standards though.

Perhaps/ if/ but also not conceded... all your own value judgements, I dont share them so lay off the insults. He was subbed to get a result for the team or are you hoping hte club renames itself to Estevao FC, glad your a fanboy.

In terms of result, yes, delighted with a point down to 10 men at home - we didnt lose and our league position is maintained and we get to continue putting pressure on the Gooners going into the Xmas season) Clearly I watched the match with my eyes open as I saw him balloon the chance... It was so bad I laughed out loud.... It led me to posting here that he isnt the finished artilce that you have taken so personally, its a little tragic.

I dont think he was our best player first half, Caicedo was until he was sent off. That's the reason Arsenal looked nullified in midfield.

Neto didnt track his man and neither did any of the defenders tasked with keeping the ball out of the net. It was a horror show goal to concede and I point the finger at Sanchez for not catching or punching a ball that was headed about 2 feet inside the six yard box. You want to blame Neto for it go for it but I doubt Estevao would have done much differently either but perhaps he might as you clearly think hes the messiah...