56 replies to this topic

[Castiel]

BlueSkies, on 23 January 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

"150m" is the quote in the papers, Plus, why would Bale want to come here?

When the seasons over and we're above Spurs, I'm going to compile a post listing every negative, doomsaying comment you've come up with.

Lane, on 23 January 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

surely you jest

I reckon we could get both for 50m at the most (probably less).  Dortmund sold Sahin for something ridiculous like 10m didn't they? Spurs would totally shaft us as we found out with Modric.  I'm not sure if Hazard would go for ridiculous money though.

BenR55, on 23 January 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why wouldn't Bale come? We could finish above them in the league and no doubt we'll strengthen in the summer which hopefully will mean we will compete for the league next season. Redknapp to England - let face it that tax dodger is the only reason Modric and Bale are still there today.

The question isn't about what Bale would want, its that Spurs would completely shaft us.  He isn't worth the kind of money they'd want when there are frankly more talented players in Europe available for much less.

Edited by Castiel, 23 January 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Mike 93]

The most hazard will go for is 33million because he has a buy out clause.

[dkw]

Castiel, on 23 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

When the seasons over and we're above Spurs, I'm going to compile a post listing every negative, doomsaying comment you've come up with.

It will be a bloody big list.

[Lane]

Castiel, on 23 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

I reckon we could get both for 50m at the most (probably less).  Dortmund sold Sahin for something ridiculous like 10m didn't they? Spurs would totally shaft us as we found out with Modric.  I'm not sure if Hazard would go for ridiculous money though.

aside the fact that gotze stated he doesnt want to go to england . . . hes twice as good as sahin, and about 4 years younger. if you think we can get gotze for 15+ million then i just . . . i dont even . . .

[BenR55]

Gotze doesnt want to come England Hazard wants to stay in Lille till summer because he knows Barca and Madrid will come sniffing, I can see him signing for Barca with them getting rid of Afellay make their squad ever better.

Modric would still be a target for me because lets face it, hes not going to Spain leaves Italy or Manchester other destinations. Hes said before he wanted to leave and for him to go silent about the whole thing would suggest they have agreed him something hopefully like Fabregas last season by saying give us one season - champs league footy and you can go.

Bale is Bale for me put him in a better side higher expectations and that will take him to the next level, soon as he becomes aware of that he'll be off.

I predict Redknapp to England new manager sells Bale and Modric (not necessarily to us) give their new manager 100m to build a squad only replacing two players.

[SirWadzman]

I just wish we'd go for Sneijder, he'd make us so much better

[Anders]

Castiel, on 23 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Dortmund sold Sahin for something ridiculous like 10m didn't they?

If I remember correctly Sahin only had a year left on the contract, which is why they sold him for such a low fee. Götze is an even bigger prospect and I reckon he won't be sold for under 30 million.

[Zeta Orionis]

Castiel, on 23 January 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

When the seasons over and we're above Spurs, I'm going to compile a post listing every negative, doomsaying comment you've come up with.

Good for you?

[Castiel]

Lane, on 23 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

aside the fact that gotze stated he doesnt want to go to england . . . hes twice as good as sahin, and about 4 years younger. if you think we can get gotze for 15+ million then i just . . . i dont even . . .

I'm not sure he's that good yet.  Potentially yes.  But look at who Sahin is competing with.  I'd have him in our squad yesterday.  I didn't realise Hazard's buyout was 33 million.  I'd range Hazard at the 20m mark personally considering he's completely unproven and Gotze probably at 25 to 30.  If he decided he liked an offer, Dortmunds history suggests they wouldn't take the piss out of buyers the way Spurs would.  Last year Hazard claimed he'd only go to Arsenal or Barcelona didn't he?  Now he seems to have changed his mind on that so I don't give them much heed.

[comtrend]

Out: Drogba, Malouda, Mikel, Meireles, Kalou

In :  Hazard, Affelay(cheap), Eriksen

This should take care of our creativity problem and add some players that gets past first defenders on their own.

[Spiller86]

Lane, on 23 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

aside the fact that gotze stated he doesnt want to go to england . . . hes twice as good as sahin, and about 4 years younger. if you think we can get gotze for 15+ million then i just . . . i dont even . . .

Spot on about Gotze. He is the real deal. The addition of Reus will loosen Dortmund a little but they'll be looking to make a profit on that deal. Id say Bayern will pay 25m min. So whoever wants him will have to pay at least that.

Similarly Hazard will go for big coin. Mata is the best big name buy we've made since Essien. That should be the model for our dealings. Not top of the hype pile but just under that where the value is.

Edited by Spiller86, 23 January 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Katon]

Castiel, on 23 January 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

I'm not sure he's that good yet.  Potentially yes.  But look at who Sahin is competing with.  I'd have him in our squad yesterday.  I didn't realise Hazard's buyout was 33 million.  I'd range Hazard at the 20m mark personally considering he's completely unproven and Gotze probably at 25 to 30.

Hazard's accomplishments in Ligue 1 match up to what Essien did before we bought him - they're the two youngest Player of the Year award winners in the past decade+, and while Essien had more CL experience, Hazard's peak year came younger and in a weaker team. Add in inflation and the way attackers always tend to be priced more highly, and Hazard will almost certainly cost more than Essien did. I also think you're underrating Gotze's cost; given how good the German league is at the moment, and what he's done for their national team, he's probably the best attacking midfield prospect in the world at the moment, and buying someone like that off the champions of one of Europe's top three leagues is going to take a ridiculous fee unless the player's actively pushing for a move.

[Castiel]

Katon, on 23 January 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Hazard's accomplishments in Ligue 1 match up to what Essien did before we bought him - they're the two youngest Player of the Year award winners in the past decade+, and while Essien had more CL experience, Hazard's peak year came younger and in a weaker team. Add in inflation and the way attackers always tend to be priced more highly, and Hazard will almost certainly cost more than Essien did. I also think you're underrating Gotze's cost; given how good the German league is at the moment, and what he's done for their national team, he's probably the best attacking midfield prospect in the world at the moment, and buying someone like that off the champions of one of Europe's top three leagues is going to take a ridiculous fee unless the player's actively pushing for a move.

Perhaps.  My original point was that Bale would cost more than either of them by a significant degree.  And either of them are better prospects than Bale.  I'm not going to juggle the numbers to afford them with a hyperbolic comment.

The German league is certainly competitive, but on the European stage only Bayern tend to impress.  Schalke last season were humiliated by United (they played the kids in a semi final) and Dortmund managed to get dumped out as last in the groups.  I'm not a huge follower of the goings on in that league but wouldn't it be a bad move for Dortmund to sell somebody like Gotze to their title rivals?  Thats like us selling Josh to United, no?

[Damnation]

Castiel, on 24 January 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Perhaps.  My original point was that Bale would cost more than either of them by a significant degree.  And either of them are better prospects than Bale.  I'm not going to juggle the numbers to afford them with a hyperbolic comment.

The German league is certainly competitive, but on the European stage only Bayern tend to impress.  Schalke last season were humiliated by United (they played the kids in a semi final) and Dortmund managed to get dumped out as last in the groups.  I'm not a huge follower of the goings on in that league but wouldn't it be a bad move for Dortmund to sell somebody like Gotze to their title rivals?  Thats like us selling Josh to United, no?

Indeed. No way they would sell Götze to a Bundesliga rival, also Bayern isn't overpaying.

[Spiller86]

It's different in Germany Castiel. Bayern tend to have an odd pull for players perhaps because they tend to win every second year and are competitive in Europe. Similarly they have by far the most money, so they tend to be able to make offers clubs can't refuse. Even to Dortmund who despite their enormous stadium are still recovering from financial meltdown in the middle of the decade.

It made no sense for Gomez to leave Stuttgart to go there, but he did. Similarly it made no sense to let Neuer go there from Schalke, but he did too. Ballack from big local (as well as at the time title) rivals Leverkusen, the list goes on and on. Ballack at a very minimum was considered to be in the same class as Gotze, if not better, so that'll give you an idea of their pull.

Edited by Spiller86, 24 January 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Castiel]

Its amazing that they have such a monopoly over the league and still manage to keep it competitive.

[Spiller86]

Each teams success against Bayern generally comes as a result of finding a few really top young players, and the general culture of constant upheaval at Bayern. They turn over managers as quickly as we do.

[wxwax]

Rather than look at players, I'd look at positions.

Critical: right back, left wing, striker.

Semi-critical: creative mid.

Desirable: depth across the board.

[Katon]

Castiel, on 24 January 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Perhaps.  My original point was that Bale would cost more than either of them by a significant degree.  And either of them are better prospects than Bale.  I'm not going to juggle the numbers to afford them with a hyperbolic comment.

OK, that makes sense. I certainly agree that the markup for buying a homegrown player directly from a Premiership rival would be ridiculous, and put Bale's cost up past the other two; for some reason I didn't twig that you were exaggerating their relative prices for effect. I was thinking more in comparison with Willian - given the price he's rumored to be available for, whether Hazard's available for 20m or 33m is very relevant to choosing our #1 target for this window.

[ace]

Gotze just signed an extension through 2016 at Dortmund.  Probably won't see him in Chelsea blue anytime soon.