This is probably going to sound pretty brutal but I think it is a fair point to debate.

Top class goalkeepers playing for title challenging teams need to be worth at least 15 points a season. In our back to back winning team Cech was easily worth this in the same way Schmiechel was to United throughout his time at Old Trafford.

Cech is no longer worth anything like this much to us. There is no denying his quality however at the highest level he has to show this a least 7 games out of 10. Ever since his horrific injury Cech has rarely been consistently good for more than 3-4 games before we hit a game where there is no option but to question errors he has made.

I genuinely feel that at some point soon we are going to have to consider whether we need to bring in a new goalkeeper because Cech has been fully fit for a long time now and he has never reclaimed the form and conistency he had before the injury. That sounds pretty cut throat but the team has to come first.

The fact that were forced to change our backline due to injuries and player's getting suspended must have an effect on the confidence of a keeper. During the back to back seasons we had a fairly settled backline so everyone knew exactly what they were doing and knew they could trust that others would be where they were supposed to be. Of course Cech has to take some blame as well, as he's had some bad matches.

Edited April 14, 200917 yr by Maksimov

I agree with you Loz. This debate needs to be had. Cech hasn't been like the Cech of old these past couple of years to be honest. Its prettty worrying and saddening, but we've got to stick with him for the time being. He hasn't been that bad yet. Ok he has a very poor game tonight, but over the past 2 months I feel hes been a lot better than in his other temporary slumps.

Overall, the jury is out for me...although he is still young for a goalie, so we've gotta show faith for the moment.

This is by no means a knee jerk reaction after tonight, as I've also been thinking about this for a while. Cech has been an untouchable for so long it's hard to imagine us even dropping him, much less actually replacing him.

But tonight's game has highlighted all the form problems he's had since the injury. Whether it's psychological or physical I don't know, but for me he now looks less assured, and that in turn leads to more uncertainty in the back four.

It pains me to say this as I love the bloke. But the issue does at least deserve to be debated.

I disagree. When everyone was slagging off Cech earlier in the season, I stuck by him, and I'm going to continue to do so here. Two bad [dire] games doesn't mean a great deal considering how great he's been in the last two months. He may have his off-days (like any keeper), but on the whole, his performances are extremely good. I would even go as far as saying he was our player of the month for February or March.

Form is temporary. Class is permanent.

I'd definitely stick by him, but if this type of disaster becomes the rule rather than the exception, then I would agree that we should demote him or even get shot.

okay, petr cech has had two horrible games on the spin, but I for one want to see him stay with us until he retires, and wouldn't swap him for any keeper in the world (considering all factors including age and so on).

I think it is a knee jerk reaction to question Cech's future. It was on last Wendesday, he had some quality saves and commnanded the box superably to win us the game. We could have easily conceded another goal that night, and still walked home happy. As I wrote in the other thread, the Bolton game took the sting out of him, he came out a number of time, blocked off by the tall timber of Davies etc, and came out looking silly. The defence hasn't helped him lately, we seems to conceded a lot of byline cross lately, the second goal by Bolton, and the last by Liverpool last night. JT would have helped a lot tonight, he would push the troop forward rather than all defenders stay tight around the box, and coneded cross and shots from just outside the box.

I agree he had 2 really bad games, but it made look a lot worse because of his usual high standard and our slack defending.Casillas conceded 5 against Liverpool, and all the pundits said he was the only good player in a team got humiliated. Of the goals tonight, only the first one is completely his fault, trying to be too cute, the rest he couldn't do anything about it. Seriosuly, does anyone want Hilario play at NouCamp? It's a form slump, he will get over it. Drogba hasn't done f** all until Hiddink came in, and we all love him now. Surely a consistent performer like Cech deserve a break, at least from his own supporters.

It has been worrying that Petr Cech's form has not been so good, but I feel that we need to keep faith in him. If we did drop him who would be able to do a better job? As the saying goes "Form is temporary, class is permanent". Cech is class and I back him to have a strong end to the season for Chelsea.

I posted my thoughts on Cech in another thread, but I agree that we need to keep faith in him. He will come good again for the club.

as far as I am concerned there are players we haven't even signed that we should look to move on before petr.

leave aside the fact that if any of our other players were to be replaced after below par performances or worse two horror shows on the spin we'd have said goodbye long ago to every player in our squad barring john terry.

even in practical terms, there are no keepers who could come in and replace him, there are so few players of petr's class, and those ones are rightly unbuyable. I bet if you looked at how many motm votes he's had this season we'd see that there are plenty of times in which he's bailed us out, and I totally disagree that he can only go 3 or 4 games without a mistake... I feel that is hyperbole and a knee jerk reaction.

in fact, if you took away his outstanding form from the first two years, we're still looking at one of the best keeper's we've ever had, and only comparing him now to then (like we do with jt) could we really consider a replacement. in keeping terms he's a baby, there are plenty of "promising keepers" that at his age have only started to establish themselves as first team players all across europe- he has ten great seasons ahead of him and the best is yet to come.

getting rid of cech would be like shooting ourselves in the foot.

then reloading, and shooting ourselves in the head.

Haven't read all the posts so somebody might have mentioned this already.

A few seasons ago I thought that Chelsea had a keeper that not only could win us games but would be able to do so for atleast 10 more years. I even think we talked about that here. He was going to be that solid guy between the posts for a long, long time and we wouldn't have to worry about spending money on a new keeper.

That has changed. I love Cech and I still rate him very high, but since his injury he has lost his stability. He can still be world class for some games, but he also has games where he make simple mistakes. His inconsistency is worrying.

He still is the kind of keeper who can make the most amazing saves and will still probably win us a few points every season, but not as many as before and he'll also probably lose us a few points.

As a big team we can't afford to have a keeper like that. It pains me to say it, but it's the truth. It's not like we're great and the rest of the teams are several steps below us. Nowadays anyone can beat anyone. The team at the top of the league can drop points against the team at the bottom and the big teams are all very strong. And if you want to win trophies you probably need to win against them more times than they beat you. And in those big games one goal can be the difference between zero and three points. And every now and then it'll be the keeper who is the difference between letting that goal in and keeping a clean sheet.

So I would say that unless Cech somehow returns to the level he had before his injury we may have to look for a replacement. I would love to keep Cech as a backup though, but I can't see him staying to sit on the bench.

Boy, imagine a few seasons ago when we had one of the top three keepers in the world between the pipes and one of the best backup keepers in the league (maybe in the world) sitting on the bench, always ready to put on the gloves and join the game if necessary.

Those were the days.

Love you, Big Pete, but the team comes first. :D

Seems we're not the only one's talking about Cech's lack of form: troubled Petr Cech is a shadow of his former self

We've got to stick by him as on his day there are none better but I do think the club need to have a look at the competition for his place which currently appears to be non-existent. Hilário is an adequate understudy but would you start him ahead of a fit Cech regardless of form, I don't think I would. I haven't seen Rhys Taylor in action so I couldn't comment on his ability.

Also if it's no longer a medical requirement, Cech needs to get rid of that damn hat.

Edited April 15, 200917 yr by sweet waffle

Who would replace him would be my question. I still rate him very highly, and with some stability of the defense I'm sure he will be back to his best.

He was highly caught out on their first goal, and whats worse is he did the same thing against Bolton, but saved himself. Don't forget the amazing save he made slapping Kuyt's header away tonight. Big Petr took a knee to the head, and a boot to the face, and he is still better than Reina and Almunia.

Who would replace him would be my question. I still rate him very highly, and with some stability of the defense I'm sure he will be back to his best.

He was highly caught out on their first goal, and whats worse is he did the same thing against Bolton, but saved himself. Don't forget the amazing save he made slapping Kuyt's header away tonight. Big Petr took a knee to the head, and a boot to the face, and he is still better than Reina and Almunia.

True, but is he better than Buffon or Casillias?

I feel the same G4.

I felt Cech was at fault with the first due to his poor positioning at the free-kick. The Lucas' goal was down to plain bad luck due to the huge deflection off Essien and the penalty and Kuyt goal were down to Ivanovich who I felt had a bit of a shocker last night and didn't look comfortable as a full back.

But it wasn't just the goals Just. He had a complete mare all night.

On his day there is still no better keeper out there but his current form is worrying to say the least.

Cech's problem is with his mentality though, not his ability, which is why I want to stick with him.

The mistakes he make, and his (sad to say) complete lack of dominance in the box seem to be all linked to confidence.

How he can get that confidence back however is anyone's guess...

I guess when someone purposely knees you in the head, it takes a while to get your confidence fully back. The thing is, before this and the Bolton game, it really looked like he was back to his old self.

I guess we just pick up when players have bad games rather than good, nature of a football fan, but in the long run, we can't do much better.

Regardless of Cech's form, we have to get ourselves a promising back-up keeper, who can compete with Cech as first choice. I don't think Hilario is that man, he's been adequate but not spectacular for us. No idea what Taylor is like, but if it looks like he's not world class potential, we need a new keeper who can win us games. Then if Cech loses it, the new guy can step in. And no, I don't know who

To answer the initial question, the time for me was at half time last night. I wouldn't have let him play the second half, I genuinly thought he would cost us the game.

That said, I do still think he'll come good again for us, he's shown glimpses in the second half of this season of the player he once was, I really think that a run without injuries and a good pre-season will see the old Petr Cech back next year - just hope it doesn't cost us any more this year!

Cech's problem is with his mentality though, not his ability, which is why I want to stick with him.

The mistakes he make, and his (sad to say) complete lack of dominance in the box seem to be all linked to confidence.

How he can get that confidence back however is anyone's guess...

Indeed. Cech is only 26 and still improving. He had a serious head injury that could have ended his career. He will probably wear that helmet for the rest of his career. It will always remind him to be cautious. It has affected his form no doubt about it.

We need serious competition to him. Seem that Hilario hasn't got what it takes to make the coach even consider him. We need a young goalie competing with him.

Cech's yesterday's performance was his worst for us, as far as I remember. The worst thing about that is that it was very important game against a top team and front of home crowd. Cech literally crumbled under pressure. Tells that his confidence is very low. I don't want it to sound too bad since it would only have needed him to make one good save in the beginning and all could have looked difference...

It's definately all about confidence. Cech last Tuesday was superb, commanded his area and his positional sense was spot on. He had a mare against Bolton on Saturday and it knocked his confidence as you see last night.

He is still one of the best keepers in the world without a shadow of a doubt.

Edited April 15, 200917 yr by bennyboy1976

we got to stick by him

so 7 goals in 2 games is not going to do his confidence much good, but dropping him will put an even bigger dent in it

he seems to have lost all bottle of late and it looks like he fears getting clattered and injured again, goal keepers need to be prepared to take the rough and tumble of a 6ft defender attacking you for the ball

just stick him on the line and tell him not to move off it for a few games, it worked with grodas in an fa cup final once

It's definately all about confidence. Cech last Tuesday was superb, commanded his area and his positional sense was spot on. He had a mare against Bolton on Saturday and it knocked his confidence as you see last night.

He is still one of the best keepers in the world without a shadow of a doubt.

Well said Benny

The whole side switched off against Bolton on Sat and we picked up where we left off last night. The 1st half we just invited pressure on ourselves. The free kick was well disguised, although was executed based on our keepers insecurities. A penalty, and a wicked deflection.

I think Cech's confidence was shattered under Scolari at the start of the season and it'll take time for him to get his confidence back, and iron out any uncertainty. Terry was sorely missed in organising his troops last night.

Is there a better keeper at the club, no, is there a better keeper in the league, based on the last 2 games then yes, but is there a keeper in the league with more career clean sheets than our Petr? I doubt it!

there is a case for both here, yes he still is a grest keeper but he is nowhere near as good as he was, he panicks under pressure and continues to flap at crosses.

but, as pointed out, who out there is any better?

we need to get a hungry young keeper who will push Cech all the way for the keepers jersey