With the Lance Armstrong saga, recent the crisis in Australian sports, and Dr Fuentes claiming to have a "notebook" of his former clients including high-profile footballers, it would be naive to think that football is not somehow implicated in doping scandals.

 

Fuentes in particularly seems adamant to out high-profile footballers. Would it destroy the sport if players were found to be doping, potentially even some of our own?

I don't think so, but that could be wishful thinking. My impression is that most of the anti-doping furor originates from America. There's this popular misconception that Lance Armstrong was persecuted by the French, but wasn't it America behind most of it? The way that they act like steroids are the worst things to ever happen to sports does my head in.

To me, match-fixing is infinitely more of a problem than doping. WADA appear to be a quasi-religious organisation hellbent on justifying their own existence, more than anything, and they reject the sovereignity of each sport to determine their own rules and policies.

 

Some of the stuff that has been investigated is beyond ridiculous, by WADA policy it constitutes doping but by common sense the lines are much more blurred. For example, in 2005 after Arjen Robben had injured his foot against Blackburn, Mourinho and then-doctor Bryan English wanted to use the "controversial" blood spinning technique. Actually, it wasn't controversial at all, seeing as oxygenating blood to improve recovery is used in modern medicine and FIFA had no qualms with it, but WADA effectively threatened Robben and Chelsea by declaring they could make it illegal at their whim.

 

A lot of what is being investigated around the world falls into this category, of "questionable" techniques according to WADA (including an Australian NRL player being investigated for using a "deer antler spray" to improve recovery- remember van Persie and the horse placenta?) but for me it seems a pointless and arbitrary distinction since better facilities and resources are always going to be available at the top end of a sport.

 

The use of anabolic steroids is interesting since in sports like football or athletics, they don't have a direct effect on performance like they would in weightlifting, for example. Steroids increase the growth of muscle mass, rapidly. They are a shortcut in that they drastically cut down the hours needed to build a basis of strength in an athlete, leaving more time to work on technique and power. They don't magically transform into functional ability.

To me, match-fixing is infinitely more of a problem than doping. WADA appear to be a quasi-religious organisation hellbent on justifying their own existence, more than anything, and they reject the sovereignity of each sport to determine their own rules and policies.

 

Some of the stuff that has been investigated is beyond ridiculous, by WADA policy it constitutes doping but by common sense the lines are much more blurred. For example, in 2005 after Arjen Robben had injured his foot against Blackburn, Mourinho and then-doctor Bryan English wanted to use the "controversial" blood spinning technique. Actually, it wasn't controversial at all, seeing as oxygenating blood to improve recovery is used in modern medicine and FIFA had no qualms with it, but WADA effectively threatened Robben and Chelsea by declaring they could make it illegal at their whim.

 

A lot of what is being investigated around the world falls into this category, of "questionable" techniques according to WADA (including an Australian NRL player being investigated for using a "deer antler spray" to improve recovery- remember van Persie and the horse placenta?) but for me it seems a pointless and arbitrary distinction since better facilities and resources are always going to be available at the top end of a sport.

 

The use of anabolic steroids is interesting since in sports like football or athletics, they don't have a direct effect on performance like they would in weightlifting, for example. Steroids increase the growth of muscle mass, rapidly. They are a shortcut in that they drastically cut down the hours needed to build a basis of strength in an athlete, leaving more time to work on technique and power. They don't magically transform into functional ability.

 

^ They enable a much greater degree of protein synthesis in the body, thereby allowing more muscle building, greater recovery time, which in turn allows for more intense training. Obviously with more muscle and power you are going to hit things stronger, harder and probably faster which for a lot of sports will give the user a competitive advantage. 

 

 

There is steroid abuse and more recently peptide abuse in virtually all major sports where there is big money I think. I believe you would be naive to think otherwise.  Look at the body composition difference in athletes today in any sport compared to 30 years ago.

 

NFL - Most of those guys are on steroids - look at the size of them   You can't get that way naturally. I am convinced a lot of rugby players have been doing the same for years too.

 

Tennis - There are rumours that Nadal has been serving a 'silent ban' due to performance enhancers, and its being dressed up injuries (Agassi also had this)

 

Cycling - Don't need to say anything

 

Athletics - Been rife for years (Dwayne Chambers more recently got caught), and I am sorry if this offends any Bolt fans, but that guy has almost certainly taken something in his time

 

Boxing - Manny Pacquiao has went up 6 different weight categories and won belts in them all. Whilst this is probably possible naturally (if you are super human), I don't believe for a second he is clean and that's why the fight against Mayweather has never happened - he didn't want to take so many random blood tests and blamed it on them making him queezy - come on! 

 

 

 

I think this is only the tip of the ice berg, I think its gone too far now where its virtually uncontrollable. 

 

Like piracy people will always find a way

Edited February 8, 201313 yr by Zola

 

 

^ They enable a much greater degree of protein synthesis in the body, thereby allowing more muscle building, greater recovery time, which in turn allows for more intense training. Obviously with more muscle and power you are going to hit things stronger, harder and probably faster which for a lot of sports will give the user a competitive advantage. 

 

 

There is steroid abuse and more recently peptide abuse in virtually all major sports where there is big money I think. I believe you would be naive to think otherwise.  Look at the body composition difference in athletes today in any sport compared to 30 years ago.

 

NFL - Most of those guys are on steroids - look at the size of them   You can't get that way naturally. I am convinced a lot of rugby players have been doing the same for years too.

 

Tennis - There are rumours that Nadal has been serving a 'silent ban' due to performance enhancers, and its being dressed up injuries (Agassi also had this)

 

Cycling - Don't need to say anything

 

Athletics - Been rife for years (Dwayne Chambers more recently got caught), and I am sorry if this offends any Bolt fans, but that guy has almost certainly taken something in his time

 

Boxing - Manny Pacquiao has went up 6 different weight categories and won belts in them all. Whilst this is probably possible naturally (if you are super human), I don't believe for a second he is clean and that's why the fight against Mayweather has never happened - he didn't want to take so many random blood tests and blamed it on them making him queezy - come on! 

 

 

 

I think this is only the tip of the ice berg, I think its gone too far now where its virtually uncontrollable. 

 

Like piracy people will always find a way

 

 

So will the only realistic attitude eventually be to adopt a totally laissez-faire approach where athletes of all kinds are allowed to choose what to take or not take, depending on their desire to win?  Will this eventually be the only way of ensuring a level playing field?

I don't know to be honest, Moi.

 

I don't think it should ever be legal in athletic sports because you will almost certainly get a young athlete who will abuse the drugs and end up killing themselves. 

 

However, part of thinks that there should be a natural and an unregulated division of sports, much like there is in bodybuilding. I'd love to see someone run the 100 metres in 6 seconds or throw a javelin out of the stadium  

Edited February 8, 201313 yr by Zola

If a player weas found to be taking banned substances, would be interesting to see how it was dealt with. If that player helped his team win something, would the team have the trophy taken away? If the player helped his team beat another team who were subsequently relegated, would the relegated team have a case to bring forward? It would be an absolute minefield so I imagine it would all be swept under a large carpet.

Though it would explain how bosingwa managed to play so well in the Nou Camp.

Messi spent 4 years on HGH after joining Barca. The purpose was to "make him like everyone else" but of course, he's clearly not like everyone else. Would he be the same player if he'd naturally grown to his current height and not taken drugs? We'll never know.

He needed that because he had a serious condition in his legs at a young age though that warranted it.

but yes, without grow hormone he never would have made it.

Edited February 8, 201313 yr by Zola

God, I would love some drugs in football. I don't know how I will survive this season otherwise if not for drugs.

God, I would love some drugs in football. I don't know how I will survive this season otherwise if not for drugs.

 

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of drugs in football in Mexico:

 

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00444/1campo_280x390_444884a.jpg

http://www.oldfootballshirts.com/img/shirts/1002/thumbs/football_shirt_14602_1_600x560x0.jpg

http://www.oldfootballshirts.com/img/shirts/1002/thumbs/football_shirt_3660_1_376x450x0.jpg

http://www.oldfootballshirts.com/img/shirts/1002/thumbs/football_shirt_7341_1_376x450x0.jpg

http://www.oldfootballshirts.com/img/shirts/1002/thumbs/football_shirt_5824_1_600x560x0.jpg

 

 

^ They enable a much greater degree of protein synthesis in the body, thereby allowing more muscle building, greater recovery time, which in turn allows for more intense training. Obviously with more muscle and power you are going to hit things stronger, harder and probably faster which for a lot of sports will give the user a competitive advantage. 

 

 

There is steroid abuse and more recently peptide abuse in virtually all major sports where there is big money I think. I believe you would be naive to think otherwise.  Look at the body composition difference in athletes today in any sport compared to 30 years ago.

 

I agree here, but even putting aside steroids, elite athletes already have access to the best nutrition, training and recovery methods available. They already have an advantage. For me, it's a very fine line. I mean should amateur football associations ban the use of ice baths or protein shakes?

 

The only real argument for me is athlete safety, which nevertheless is a very valid argument for me. Legalising such drugs may subconsciously coerce athletes to start taking them just to compete e.g. Lance Armstrong's justification that "everyone did it, so I needed to do it to compete plz feel sorry for me!!!11 at the risk of endangering their long-term health. Competitiveness and pressure make people do strange things, doubly so when mega profit is involved.

^ They enable a much greater degree of protein synthesis in the body, thereby allowing more muscle building, greater recovery time, which in turn allows for more intense training. Obviously with more muscle and power you are going to hit things stronger, harder and probably faster which for a lot of sports will give the user a competitive advantage.

There is steroid abuse and more recently peptide abuse in virtually all major sports where there is big money I think. I believe you would be naive to think otherwise. Look at the body composition difference in athletes today in any sport compared to 30 years ago.

I agree here, but even putting aside steroids, elite athletes already have access to the best nutrition, training and recovery methods available. They already have an advantage. For me, it's a very fine line. I mean should amateur football associations ban the use of ice baths or protein shakes?

The only real argument for me is athlete safety, which nevertheless is a very valid argument for me. Legalising such drugs may subconsciously coerce athletes to start taking them just to compete e.g. Lance Armstrong's justification that "everyone did it, so I needed to do it to compete plz feel sorry for me!!!11 at the risk of endangering their long-term health. Competitiveness and pressure make people do strange things, doubly so when mega profit is involved.

Definitely not, as protein shakes is essentially various foods condensed into powder form for convenience..interesting question though.

its an interesting time for sports. I think most sports bodies are probably trying to keep it all hush hush, I am sure they don't want the public knowing so many of their idols are on drugs :lol:

There's a very good documentary on YouTube called "bigger, stronger, faster" which talks about this in American sports. quite interesting.

Edited February 11, 201313 yr by Zola

Mutu is sweating

The other thing to remember is that anabolic steroids improve protein synthesis and hypertrophy, but that does not always necessarily translate into power or applied strength. Training is still needed to convert muscle potential into power and technique. 

 

Definitely not, as protein shakes is essentially various foods condensed into powder form for convenience..interesting question though.

its an interesting time for sports. I think most sports bodies are probably trying to keep it all hush hush, I am sure they don't want the public knowing so many of their idols are on drugs :lol:


There's a very good documentary on YouTube called "bigger, stronger, faster" which talks about this in American sports. quite interesting.

Of course, but these are athletes we are talking about.. virtually all of them (apart from darts players perhaps) incorporate strength training, no matter the sport.

I say just let them take them...

 

 

Imagine them all running out hyped up on cocaine.... That could finally make a game between Stoke and Bolton worth watching. 

Drugs in football is nothing new, I'm pretty sure the Chelsea side of 1982/83 were all stoned out of their minds for the best part of the season.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/15/drugs-wada-organised-crime

Posted this in the Deco thread but thought its more relevant in here!!

On BBC last night there was an article about Deco. He was caught taking a drug to mask the detection of performance enhancers (i.e. steroids).

I heard on the news last night that a high court judge ordered evidence that claimed a group of top footballers were taking enhancers also.

Will it ever come out?

If little old Deco is doing it I am sure some of the bigger lads almost certainly have.

I think anyone who believes football is clean is deluding themselves. There's so much pressure to succeed, so much money involved that there will be drugs in football

I think anyone who believes football is clean is deluding themselves. There's so much pressure to succeed, so much money involved that there will be drugs in football

 

Well its happening in the horse racing so at this stage nothing would surprise me.

I think anyone who believes football is clean is deluding themselves. There's so much pressure to succeed, so much money involved that there will be drugs in football

On the contrary i think that there is so much that a professional footballer can lose by failing a drugs test that they wouldn't risk it

I think anyone who believes football is clean is deluding themselves. There's so much pressure to succeed, so much money involved that there will be drugs in football

On the contrary i think that there is so much that a professional footballer can lose by failing a drugs test that they wouldn't risk it

The cheats seem to be so far ahead of the testers at this stage, I wouldn't call it a risk.

Yes, but as pointed out in this thread and others, what people think are "drugs" include arbitrarily-decided protein supplements by a self-righteous, ambiguous WADA policy.