How can you write off Lotfus-Cheek so soon? Fair enough the vast majority of young players won't make it but what is it specifically about Loftus-Cheek that makes you think that? 

 

From what I've seen of Loftus-Cheek he looks like one day he will turn out to be a very good player, but not here. We just don't show that faith in the youth, it's not really how we do things, Ake has been impressive at every moment and can barely get game time, if he was at Arsenal he would be playing at least half the games of a season.

 

It's a shame but to look on the realistic side it's how we have consistently good performances.

 

I wouldn't write off his ability at all, but I have no hopes of the lad ever becoming a star here, not if we buy him in the future like we did with Matic.

Who reminds you zidane?

 

Paul Pogba.

 

Edit: I could have said something like Josh McEachran their and ticked everyone off, nevermind.

Edited January 12, 201511 yr by Slawth

From what I've seen of Loftus-Cheek he looks like one day he will turn out to be a very good player, but not here. We just don't show that faith in the youth, it's not really how we do things, Ake has been impressive at every moment and can barely get game time, if he was at Arsenal he would be playing at least half the games of a season.

 

It's a shame but to look on the realistic side it's how we have consistently good performances.

 

I wouldn't write off his ability at all, but I have no hopes of the lad ever becoming a star here, not if we buy him in the future like we did with Matic.

 

And that has to change. It should've begun with Chalobah but we'd only just appointed Jose as coach. You have to think that entering his third season he'd know the squad well enough to start introducing youth in, and it's not like he's shied away from using Zouma this season.

 

Lotus-Cheek is a powerful, technically proficient young man who plays in a position we're going to need reinforcements next year. I have faith that he'll get that chance.

You could argue that every team would find room for Pogba, but I honestly don't think he would be a good fit for us. Whatever he would be cost + wages wise is way too much for a squad player and you are not going to drop Matic & Fabregas and we have ok back-up in Ramires, Mikel. Ake and the other youngsters coming through.

 

That said, I think folk are getting carried away on RLC on the strength of one first team sub appearance. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of him at youth & reserve level and at times he has looked quality but at times he also hasn't. Physical presence and athleticism alone is not enough to guarantee you are going to make it in football and thankfully I'm glad of that as there is far too much emphasis placed on those qualities these days.

 

Of course I hope he does make it, but I think there are a few others who have just as good a chance, who possibly aren't getting the rave reviews because are not 7 foot tall and built like the proverbial BSH!!

Edited January 12, 201511 yr by Nibs

And that has to change. It should've begun with Chalobah but we'd only just appointed Jose as coach. You have to think that entering his third season he'd know the squad well enough to start introducing youth in, and it's not like he's shied away from using Zouma this season.

 

Lotus-Cheek is a powerful, technically proficient young man who plays in a position we're going to need reinforcements next year. I have faith that he'll get that chance.

 

Some parts I agree, I don't understand why Ake doesn't play more.

 

Even Loftus Cheek, he got what 10 bloody minutes in a pointless game... the game was all hyped up about him from the start and we only got to see him for 10 minutes.

 

It's frustrating but I try not to let it get to me, I have kind of accepted it. I was a huge fan of Josh McEachran, I don't know if you followed him closely, but Josh at the age of 16 and 17 was scary, his vision and passing was unbelievable. Watch his debut game against Marseillie in the Champions League under Ancelotti. He was fantastic.

 

And now... well to be honest it all went downhill when he got that new contract, even now he is more bothered about his cars and girlfriend. Nevermind though I guess.

Some parts I agree, I don't understand why Ake doesn't play more.

 

Even Loftus Cheek, he got what 10 bloody minutes in a pointless game... the game was all hyped up about him from the start and we only got to see him for 10 minutes.

 

It's frustrating but I try not to let it get to me, I have kind of accepted it. I was a huge fan of Josh McEachran, I don't know if you followed him closely, but Josh at the age of 16 and 17 was scary, his vision and passing was unbelievable. Watch his debut game against Marseillie in the Champions League under Ancelotti. He was fantastic.

 

And now... well to be honest it all went downhill when he got that new contract, even now he is more bothered about his cars and girlfriend. Nevermind though I guess.

 

You are right - McEachran honestly looked the best youth player we had produced. He glided through games almost effortlessly. At comparable ages, RFL isn't as good but because of his other attributes, he will no doubt have a better chance of making it in the modern game.

Just a reminder

 

Go on then. 10 18 year old DMs you consider finer products.

The thing is that a lot of supporters do want to see academy products, especially young English players, brought through. That's why RLC should and hopefully fill get a chance.

Again, what specifically about Loftus-Cheek's game do you think will be a barrier to him stepping up? Equally, what have you seen from watching him play however many times you have that might actually help him make a step that someone like Josh couldn't?

1. Pointless exercise as I've said, due to the nature of subjectivity.

2. And how many of those supporters would be satisfied with seeing academy products at the expense of challenging for titles?

3. The specifics aren't relevant and I've seen him play about a dozen times. He can be the most gifted 18 year old in the world, but the fact remains that the progression from being a talented player to a good player is for all intents and purposes - a lottery. The barrier is the design of progression.

1. Pointless exercise as I've said, due to the nature of subjectivity.

2. And how many of those supporters would be satisfied with seeing academy products at the expense of challenging for titles?

3. The specifics aren't relevant and I've seen him play about a dozen times. He can be the most gifted 18 year old in the world, but the fact remains that the progression from being a talented player to a good player is for all intents and purposes - a lottery. The barrier is the design of progression.

 

1. Subjectivity be damned. Let's hear some of those names.

 

2. It's a balance to be struck, just like the balance between signing a 21 year old for £50 million when you have youths who are arguably as talented as them at that age.

 

3. When I ask you about specifics then they clearly are relevant. You want to talk in generalities about young players rather than RLC specifically. Maybe in future don't discuss a player if you have no interest in discussing that player.

Just a reminder

 

and it's JOM who nutmegs him! haha

we don't want to make the same mistake as Utd did by letting RLC go, then him going to another club and becoming a player worth 4x his original worth. 

Edited January 12, 201511 yr by enigma

Some parts I agree, I don't understand why Ake doesn't play more.

 

Even Loftus Cheek, he got what 10 bloody minutes in a pointless game... the game was all hyped up about him from the start and we only got to see him for 10 minutes.

 

It's frustrating but I try not to let it get to me, I have kind of accepted it. I was a huge fan of Josh McEachran, I don't know if you followed him closely, but Josh at the age of 16 and 17 was scary, his vision and passing was unbelievable. Watch his debut game against Marseillie in the Champions League under Ancelotti. He was fantastic.

 

And now... well to be honest it all went downhill when he got that new contract, even now he is more bothered about his cars and girlfriend. Nevermind though I guess.

unfortunately, if you don't get them in team at just the right time, they go backwards, then they go out on meaningless loans, like chalboah, to burnley and sit on the bench and get 15 mins a season, then the f**k it attitude football is littered with  ex-players that just cop that attitude, and fall by the wayside, as well as players cast off by clubs as not good enough, dennis wise just one example.

 

Also the reason pogba, left manure. Was two things, bacon face told pogba to go in the gym and train and pogba told him he was a footballer not an  athlete, athlete's train with weights, footballers train with footballs! and the week after he made his debut against stoke, and run rings round the stoke midfield, he played evra in the middle, and the pog basically went nuts, said evra couldn't lace his boots. And was off at the end of his contract, manure then bent over backwards to get him to renew but he said all i keep getting told is soon, and soon i'm off.

we don't want to make the same mistake as Utd did by letting RLC go, then him going to another club and becoming a player worth 4x his original worth. 

or indeed as more closer to home case, matic who we sold for 1.5m and bought back for 21m! ouch

When Messi was 19 I saw him score a hattrick vs Real Madrid. I guess it's not fair to compare anyone to him though

or indeed as more closer to home case, matic who we sold for 1.5m and bought back for 21m! ouch

 

But we were more than compensated for what we bought and subsequently sold Luiz for. 

But we were more than compensated for what we bought and subsequently sold Luiz for. 

ffs nibs don't tell your accountant that's how you run a business! 

Just a reminder

 

 

and it's JOM who nutmegs him! haha

 

Then no wonder it caught Pogba by suprise!

Pogba is only as good as he is because Juventus gave him the chance. Ruben Loftus Cheek could exceed all expectations if he was given one too. To say there are 1000s of his type is silly. There were just as many good 18 year olds when Pogba was 18, as there are just as many good 18 year olds now RLC is 18. (If that makes any sense).

Pogba is only as good as he is because Juventus gave him the chance. Ruben Loftus Cheek could exceed all expectations if he was given one too. To say there are 1000s of his type is silly. There were just as many good 18 year olds when Pogba was 18, as there are just as many good 18 year olds now RLC is 18. (If that makes any sense).

 

Not all the time though, potential is a weird thing.

 

He looks very good and to be fair to the lad he should move, I wouldn't blame him if he did. But that also by no means will define he is going to be a top player, there have been plenty of players who have looked the dogs bollocks, been given a shot, haven't exceeded what they were expected to.

 

I argued with someone on here about Matic recently, when I saw him a few years ago, I used to watch a lot of Chelsea youth games when I followed McEachran and Matic looked average as anything, never really stood out, nothing about him excited me. Yet went to Benfica, blah blah blah, now he is here and is often debated to be the best player we currently have in the side.

 

Very strange indeed, like I said potential is a weird thing, I kind of agree with Pogba though, Pogba looked good but he didn't look extraordinary at 18 in his United days, he just got given the chance and it really suited him, now he has a 60-70 million price tag.

He's a great player, but signing him would mean the talents of Ake and loftus cheek will be wasted :/

 

But if we were to get him I'd happily offer Mikel+Ramires+Cash for Pogba. Would be ideal for us

He's a great player, but signing him would mean the talents of Ake and loftus cheek will be wasted :/

 

But if we were to get him I'd happily offer Mikel+Ramires+Cash for Pogba. Would be ideal for us

 

Bloody hell mate. You just said in the Reus thread that you would get rid of 2 of our players plus cash for him and now you think we should get rid of 2 of our players plus cash for Pogba Getting rid of 4 first team players for 2 isn't the best thing to do, it would leave us short.

3. When I ask you about specifics then they clearly are relevant. You want to talk in generalities about young players rather than RLC specifically. Maybe in future don't discuss a player if you have no interest in discussing that player.

I really don't want to be going in circles BD. You asked me about the specifics of the player as relating to a barrier to his development. My view is that it doesn't matter what I see in his game, the way development works is that there are numerous other significant factors at play. Statistically speaking, it makes this phase of his development a lottery.

There are amazing talents all around the globe who at 18 look nailed-on to be top players. The reality is that only a small percentage of these top talents develop into decent footballers. This is why the club changed strategic focus from buying talented youth, to buying young players in the next phase (Courtois, De Bruyne, Pasalic, T.Hazard, Salah, Atsu, Perica, van Ginkel, even Oscar). The risk is minimised. RLC certainly has no discernable weaknesses, but that is far from a guarantee of him being anywhere near as good as Pogba.

Not all the time though, potential is a weird thing.

He looks very good and to be fair to the lad he should move, I wouldn't blame him if he did. But that also by no means will define he is going to be a top player, there have been plenty of players who have looked the dogs bollocks, been given a shot, haven't exceeded what they were expected to.

I argued with someone on here about Matic recently, when I saw him a few years ago, I used to watch a lot of Chelsea youth games when I followed McEachran and Matic looked average as anything, never really stood out, nothing about him excited me. Yet went to Benfica, blah blah blah, now he is here and is often debated to be the best player we currently have in the side.

Very strange indeed, like I said potential is a weird thing, I kind of agree with Pogba though, Pogba looked good but he didn't look extraordinary at 18 in his United days, he just got given the chance and it really suited him, now he has a 60-70 million price tag.

Matic at 21 looked like nothing. Mikel at 18 looked head and shoulders above his peers. Now they're a class apart and not in the way anyone expected. And yet people still believe that seeing an amazing talent at a young age means that with some game time they'll be superstars. Far more talents go the way of Kakuta than Pogba.

I think a lot of people on here who say they want to see youth players get chances actually just want top quality exciting young players. which isn't exactly the same thing. I'm not saying we shouldn't sign pogba if we had the chance because we've got loftus-cheek or baker, but I really want to see us commit to our youth system. as jose said- use it or close the academy.

 

looking at the reaction to a bit of indifferent form from oscar for example I strongly suspect a lot of people here simply don't have the patience to give young players a real go- if promise isn't immediately shown, and if their development trajectory isn't one of consistent improvement, I think people will consider them dispensable and draw up signings they'd like to replace them in the next window.

 

incidentally I have been a fan of rlc for a few years and think he has a decent chance- not because of his physical gifts (watching him in the youth level games there's clearly a big difference between him and frank nouble for example)- but because he is a clever and technical player. he knows how to play in midfield, which I think is fairly rare. a lot of midfielders of his age have the qualities but much less understanding of game management.

Edited January 13, 201511 yr by g3.7

Mourinho is about winning and is very pragmatic. I doubt he will give youth players ago unless they are clearly ready. To play ake or rlc means not playing mikel or ramires. That may be a good decision but it won't be an easy one.

I do fancy zouma to play more but he is not a youth product