I honestly think to many people think that we can do what they do on a FIFA game and it will work. You need those hard graft type players in a team. They can't all be flashy players.

Yip.

Look at Keane at United. He was a ball winning nasty bit of work but he was a vital clog in their team. He didn't have the skill or class as say Scholes had but was equally important in what he did and what he allowed his teammates to do.

Yip.

Look at Keane at United. He was a ball winning nasty bit of work but he was a vital clog in their team. He didn't have the skill or class as say Scholes had but was equally important in what he did and what he allowed his teammates to do.

Difference is Keane didn't play wide right in a 3 behind 1 centre forward. William is meant to be an attacking midfield player. You can't compare the two players.

Biggest ball winner in the squad, start watching him play.

 

Not sure where i denied he's a ball winner but at the end of the day a wingers job is to attack and create, which he is average at. Do you agree that we only need one ball winner and with Radja coming in Willian would be surplus? Also, not sure why you'd want a ball winner playing RW. I'd rather have one in the middle of the park breaking up play. I do watch him play, hence the want for an attacking winger. 

 

Difference is Keane didn't play wide right in a 3 behind 1 centre forward. William is meant to be an attacking midfield player. You can't compare the two players.

 

I couldn't have put this any better myself. Perfect reply.

Yip.

Look at Keane at United. He was a ball winning nasty bit of work but he was a vital clog in their team. He didn't have the skill or class as say Scholes had but was equally important in what he did and what he allowed his teammates to do.

No one can put Keane and Willian in the sentence Lol. Keane is one of the best midfielders in premier league history, he couldn't score or pass like Scholes could but Keane could also drag Utd through games on his own and score vital goals. Yes Keane was a vital clog in his team because what he did was let Giggs, Beckham and Scholes play. That was his job. To play on the right wing and sometime as cam when we are really lucky you need to be creative, make chances and score more goals, not just be a runner.

Difference is Keane didn't play wide right in a 3 behind 1 centre forward. William is meant to be an attacking midfield player. You can't compare the two players.

I'm not comparing Keane to Willian...

I was talking about the Belgian lad personally.

Although the message is the same, you need workers in your side. Every great team has had them, they aint flashy they just get the job done.

No one can put Keane and Willian in the sentence Lol. Keane is one of the best midfielders in premier league history, he couldn't score or pass like Scholes could but Keane could also drag Utd through games on his own and score vital goals. Yes Keane was a vital clog in his team because what he did was let Giggs, Beckham and Scholes play. That was his job. To play on the right wing and sometime as cam when we are really lucky you need to be creative, make chances and score more goals, not just be a runner.

Keane was a fighter, a ball winner and touch tackler. He broke up play and allowed those around him the freedom to be creative.

Those type of players are vital, they don't get the headlines, they don't score the goals or get many assists but what they give the side is vital.

With Willian and his position he has to have more end product as he is playing far up the pitch. You cant however ignore the shift he puts in especially with Ivan behind him who exposes us on that side of the pitch on a gamely basis. Willian is basically doing two jobs at once.

I don't think he is a top winger, I don't think he is good enough to be a first pick but he has something that we lack big time and that is desire and effort. You need players like him in and around the squad.

I'm not comparing Keane to Willian...

I was talking about the Belgian lad personally.

Although the message is the same, you need workers in your side. Every great team has had them, they aint flashy they just get the job done.

Every team needs a worker but a team of workers won't win the league.

Keane was a fighter, a ball winner and touch tackler. He broke up play and allowed those around him the freedom to be creative.

Those type of players are vital, they don't get the headlines, they don't score the goals or get many assists but what they give the side is vital.

With Willian and his position he has to have more end product as he is playing far up the pitch. You cant however ignore the shift he puts in especially with Ivan behind him who exposes us on that side of the pitch on a gamely basis. Willian is basically doing two jobs at once.

I don't think he is a top winger, I don't think he is good enough to be a first pick but he has something that we lack big time and that is desire and effort. You need players like him in and around the squad.

Sorry but Keane got loads of headlines good and bad. He was a great leader and a great player and more than just a ball winner. Like Terry was more than just a defender.

Willian is basically another Ramires or even Fernando or Milner. Every team has a runner because you need one. Problem is his end product is so poor.

Every team needs a worker but a team of workers won't win the league.

Of course but you need them in your side. We don't really have many now although I'd include Oscar with Willian albeit Willian has contributed far more this season.

I wanted to cash in on Willian but then who else do we have in back up to the replacement? Who offers the same qualities Willian does? I can't think of many.

I thought of Ramires in the same light, not great at anything and not good enough to be a first pick but he gave us something different. We got a silly offer though and was far too good to turn down, if an offer like that came in for Willian then it would be similarly hard to turn down.

It all comes down to who we are bringing in next season, we clearly need to make our first 11 stronger.

Sorry but Keane got loads of headlines good and bad. He was a great leader and a great player and more than just a ball winner. Like Terry was more than just a defender.

Willian is basically another Ramires or even Fernando or Milner. Every team has a runner because you need one. Problem is his end product is so poor.

Yes mostly for his behaviour, not his actual football. It was Beckham, Scholes, Cantona, Giggs, RVN and so on who were being lauded.

If you took Willian out of our current side we would be probably in the relegation dog fight because our right hand side is an utter mess with Ivan on auto pilot. No one else could cover him like Willian has done. The players you mention wouldn't be able to either.

You need someone like him in your side, maybe not a first choice pick but his drive, stamina, energy is a big asset.

Everyone wants a superstar in every position but it's just silly thinking really. We are not Barca or Madrid, Willian with whats already here is the best we have for that position.

We have no CL to offer, we are not going to match City or United's wages so I'd be preparing for another season with Willian RW.

Of course but you need them in your side. We don't really have many now although I'd include Oscar with Willian albeit Willian has contributed far more this season.

I wanted to cash in on Willian but then who else do we have in back up to the replacement? Who offers the same qualities Willian does? I can't think of many.

I thought of Ramires in the same light, not great at anything and not good enough to be a first pick but he gave us something different. We got a silly offer though and was far too good to turn down, if an offer like that came in for Willian then it would be similarly hard to turn down.

It all comes down to who we are bringing in next season, we clearly need to make our first 11 stronger.

Your right, same as Ramires if someone puts in a nice offer for Willian no one can blame the club for accepting.

Willian has great pace and fast acceleration so I don't know why he doesn't use it more and look to put in more crosses. It's not spectacular but your using your assets and with good crossing leads to goals.

Your right, same as Ramires if someone puts in a nice offer for Willian no one can blame the club for accepting.

Willian has great pace and fast acceleration so I don't know why he doesn't use it more and look to put in more crosses. It's not spectacular but your using your assets and with good crossing leads to goals.

Hazard does that too, he looks like he has the speed and skill to run at a player and leave them for dead but rarely does it.

It seems it's dying art with wide players, the majority seem to like to cut it back instead of driving forward and whipping it in.

Hazard does that too, he looks like he has the speed and skill to run at a player and leave them for dead but rarely does it.

It seems it's dying art with wide players, the majority seem to like to cut it back instead of driving forward and whipping it in.

With Hazard at least he has the excuse he is a right footed playing on the left. Navas doesn't do it for City much either, his quick and has the look of a natural winger. Like in the days on Ripley and Wilcox crossing for Sutton and Shearer.

I guess being a good winger isn't the same as running round 3 players or trying cute through balls.

Really would like to see Willian do it more.

Based purely on this season's form and what they are likely to bring (or not bring) to the 16/17 Squad under Conte, then definitely to go must be;

 

Courtois (While he is saying he will stay he really wants to go. for £50mill we can do better)

Pato

Falcao

Oscar

Remy

Ivanovic

 

Bring back from loans :

 

Andreas Christensen

Nathan Ake

Juan Cuadrado

 

And sign 3 or 4 real top performers, although without Champions League football this will be very difficult. Still, look at the squad that Leicester have won the Prem with !!!

 

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a large clear out if it meant that we are promoting either our youngsters or our loanees. I would also hope the potential clear out wouldn't require a huge amount of players needing to be brought in as that can cause squad disruption but also as we likely need to reduce our financial outlay without CL revenue. So for me I would hope that we would bring in no more than 3 players for the first team squad with only 1 addition being essential.
We definitely need a new CM IMO as a replacement for Ramires. I am of the belief that we are switching to a 4-3-3 and I think that means we need a top class Box-Box midfielder with Radja Nainggollan fitting the bill perfectly and since we have been heavily linked with the player I hope it happens.
I also think we could do with a experienced CB (Bonucci fits this role perfectly) if we are to let Cahill or Ivanovic go, this isn't vital though as I would hope that we are trying to transition Zouma and Christensen into the side.
Another Striker might also be useful to the squad but seeing as I would hope next season is being geared towards youth getting a chance we could potentially trust Traore as our 2nd choice striker. (I also think Pato might make a useful back up option due to his versatility) but if it is deemed too risky to trust Traore with this role then I would pick players that are still young but have had plenty of experience like Morata or Gabbiadini.

With this in mind the players I would clear out are:

Terry; Unfortunately I think there will be an impasse when it comes to his wage demands and I can't see middle ground being met.
((Cahill; If Terry were to stay I would force Cahill to leave instead))
Djilobodji; performed his job in the squad of allowing Christensen to get vital loan experience now its time for a pat on the back and youtube video dedicated to his 30 seconds of game time.
Mikel; Despite what a great servant Mikel has been over the years I believe his squad place should be given to a loanee.
Pedro; For me he is behind Willian and Hazard on the wings and I would prefer his squad place went to a youngster.
Oscar; For me his position would no longer be needed and he hasn't quite become the consistently world player that he promised to be.
Cuadrado; A few people have potentially be calling for Cuadrado to return personally I would rather we gave someone much younger a chance in the squad as I don't think he offers anything Willian can't
Remy; Too fragile 
Falcao; Waste of space.

 

There is also a lot of loanees I would try to offload which I have mentioned in which-loaned-players-should-we-get-rid-of thread, these being; 
Moses, Bamford, Kalas, Chalobah, Piazon, Atsu, Omeruo, Cuevas, Wallace, Kane and Delac. And lets not forget Marco Amelia and Marin leaving on free transfers.

With so many on the way out there's plenty of opportunity for promotion within the club ranks.
I would like to see these players brought in to the squad from loans;
Nathan Ake (Starting LB whilst also CB cover), Marko van Ginkel (Back up to box-box midfielder), Baker (back up to Fabregas) and Musonda (Back up to Willian).
I would also potentially bring back Solanke if a striker isn't signed. Despite the clamour to bring him back I would keep Christensen on loan for one more season to eventually be brought into the squad next season with Cahill (or Terry) making way. 

With a few players getting promoted from our youth ranks;
Aina (back up to Azpilicueta), Calrke-Salter or Tomori (5th choice CB), Palmer/Colkett/Scott (7th and 8th choice midfielders) and Abraham (4th choice ST). 

 

For me this is the main thing we need our youth and loanees to believe there is a path way to the first team and hopefully doing something along these lines will give all of those players reassurance and optimism that this route is available to them which will only drive them on to be better players.

 

There is also the slight matter that with 22 players leaving our accountants will surely be happy, as we would likely generate somewhere in the region of £120-£170m in transfer revenue and would free up way over £600,000 a week in wages, and with potentially very little coming in, the 3 mentioned above at absolute most costing £100m with £350,000 a week in wages, (obviously Emenalo will bring in some weird prospects to go on loan but at least there is wiggle room), the burden of losing out on CL revenue and the building of our new stadium will be greatly lessened. 


 
 

Edited May 4, 201610 yr by PedroMendez

Players to go:

1. Costa

2. Ivanovich

3. Matic.

4. Hazard if he isn't arsed. Keep him if he wants to be a Blue and ask him to sign a 10 year contract to actually prove it.

I'd sell Costa twice just to be certain. He isn't that good, and that's being kind.

Oh, and keep JT another season and then put him in charge of transfers.

Edited May 4, 201610 yr by just

Players to go:

1. Costa

2. Ivanovich

3. Matic.

4. Hazard if he isn't arsed. Keep him if he wants to be a Blue and ask him to sign a 10 year contract to actually prove it.

I'd sell Costa twice just to be certain. He isn't that good, and that's being kind.

Oh, and keep JT another season and then put him in charge of transfers.

Who would replace Costa though?

Baring in mind we need to replace his near 20 goals a season when on form with no CL to offer. If he doesn't want to leave we would be insane to sell him

...

Edited May 4, 201610 yr by the special one

advanced position? as much as i want him to succeed again, if we are ever going to use Matic to attack, might as well play with 10

there is no worse sight than seeing Matic running headlessly straight toward opposition

i think his best position is DM. no more than that. he just need to be more discipline

 

Sorry by advanced position I meant used as a centre mid/deep lying playmaker;

                            Kante

        Naingollan/Fabregas -- Matic

 

With Kante in the Maka role Matic would be free to control the midfield alongside Naingollan/Fabregas. Without the same amount of defensive duties that he currently has to perform in the pivot he'd be free to do for us what Motta does for PSG for example.

 

Alongside Kante/Naingollan he'd also be free to press the opposition without the risk of being caught out of position.

Edited May 5, 201610 yr by the special one

Who would replace Costa though?

Baring in mind we need to replace his near 20 goals a season when on form with no CL to offer. If he doesn't want to leave we would be insane to sell him

I really don't care. Try for Abyumang from Dortmund or a punt on a youngster, or search for the next lower league Jamie Vardy if need be. I can't stand Costa's on field personna, his second touch is often a tackle and like Matic his aerial prowess for someone his size is rubbish.

Search for a Vardy? Like they're regularly around.

Come on stupid suggestion.

You need to hang on to your best striker, we won't have the options most other teams do as we have no CL football.

I don't want a crazy overhaul of the first team. Partially because that rarely works and secondly because our lack of CL football might limit tell calibre of player we can attract. There is no sense bringing in 7 players, 5 of which we would want rid of in couple of seasons if we get back into CL place.

There are a number of peripheral players we could do with shedding including sending Falcao and Pato back. However, of the main first team, I'd lose.

1. Oscar. The football equivalent of beer goggles. Looks good on occasions but when you're thinking clearly you regret it.

2. Ivanovic. Once one of the first names on the team sheet but now he has the consistency of a chocolate air biscuit after a prawn vindaloo.

3. Mikel. This is bit harsh as he has had a decent run under Hiddink and is a model professional however our midfield needs more bite (remember Essien) so space needs to be made in squad. Could easily be Matic going instead but I still have hope Conte can get Matic back to the player he was.

4. Remy. Was never going to make the grade and is little use as a sub to turn a tough game round.

And that's about it. I have some sympathy with Just's point on Costa however it makes no sense to lose him unless we bring in a quality replacement.

I really don't care. Try for Abyumang from Dortmund or a punt on a youngster, or search for the next lower league Jamie Vardy if need be. I can't stand Costa's on field personna, his second touch is often a tackle and like Matic his aerial prowess for someone his size is rubbish.

While I agree with the sentiment, I think selling Costa, Hazard in this window would be folly.

Like it or not, Costa, Hazard are 2 of our best outfield players by a country mile. Replacing those 2 in any window would be a daunting task in itself. But replacing Costa, Hazard, as well as getting a couple of top CMs, 2 or atleast 1 top CB, maybe RB/LB as well as transforming the formation and the way we play will make  2016/17 a season to forget and may well be the season which sends us towards mediocrity.

I would honestly look at some of the glaring holes in the squad (Midfield and Defence) before dealing with the trouble makers.

Players to go:

1. Costa

2. Ivanovich

3. Matic.

4. Hazard if he isn't arsed. Keep him if he wants to be a Blue and ask him to sign a 10 year contract to actually prove it.

I'd sell Costa twice just to be certain. He isn't that good, and that's being kind.

Oh, and keep JT another season and then put him in charge of transfers.

Lol

Personally I wouldn't mind a large clear out if it meant that we are promoting either our youngsters or our loanees. I would also hope the potential clear out wouldn't require a huge amount of players needing to be brought in as that can cause squad disruption but also as we likely need to reduce our financial outlay without CL revenue. So for me I would hope that we would bring in no more than 3 players for the first team squad with only 1 addition being essential.

We definitely need a new CM IMO as a replacement for Ramires. I am of the belief that we are switching to a 4-3-3 and I think that means we need a top class Box-Box midfielder with Radja Nainggollan fitting the bill perfectly and since we have been heavily linked with the player I hope it happens.

I also think we could do with a experienced CB (Bonucci fits this role perfectly) if we are to let Cahill or Ivanovic go, this isn't vital though as I would hope that we are trying to transition Zouma and Christensen into the side.

Another Striker might also be useful to the squad but seeing as I would hope next season is being geared towards youth getting a chance we could potentially trust Traore as our 2nd choice striker. (I also think Pato might make a useful back up option due to his versatility) but if it is deemed too risky to trust Traore with this role then I would pick players that are still young but have had plenty of experience like Morata or Gabbiadini.

With this in mind the players I would clear out are:

Terry; Unfortunately I think there will be an impasse when it comes to his wage demands and I can't see middle ground being met.

((Cahill; If Terry were to stay I would force Cahill to leave instead))

Djilobodji; performed his job in the squad of allowing Christensen to get vital loan experience now its time for a pat on the back and youtube video dedicated to his 30 seconds of game time.

Mikel; Despite what a great servant Mikel has been over the years I believe his squad place should be given to a loanee.

Pedro; For me he is behind Willian and Hazard on the wings and I would prefer his squad place went to a youngster.

Oscar; For me his position would no longer be needed and he hasn't quite become the consistently world player that he promised to be.

Cuadrado; A few people have potentially be calling for Cuadrado to return personally I would rather we gave someone much younger a chance in the squad as I don't think he offers anything Willian can't

Remy; Too fragile 

Falcao; Waste of space.

 

There is also a lot of loanees I would try to offload which I have mentioned in which-loaned-players-should-we-get-rid-of thread, these being; 

Moses, Bamford, Kalas, Chalobah, Piazon, Atsu, Omeruo, Cuevas, Wallace, Kane and Delac. And lets not forget Marco Amelia and Marin leaving on free transfers.

With so many on the way out there's plenty of opportunity for promotion within the club ranks.

I would like to see these players brought in to the squad from loans;

Nathan Ake (Starting LB whilst also CB cover), Marko van Ginkel (Back up to box-box midfielder), Baker (back up to Fabregas) and Musonda (Back up to Willian).

I would also potentially bring back Solanke if a striker isn't signed. Despite the clamour to bring him back I would keep Christensen on loan for one more season to eventually be brought into the squad next season with Cahill (or Terry) making way. 

With a few players getting promoted from our youth ranks;

Aina (back up to Azpilicueta), Calrke-Salter or Tomori (5th choice CB), Palmer/Colkett/Scott (7th and 8th choice midfielders) and Abraham (4th choice ST). 

 

For me this is the main thing we need our youth and loanees to believe there is a path way to the first team and hopefully doing something along these lines will give all of those players reassurance and optimism that this route is available to them which will only drive them on to be better players.

 

There is also the slight matter that with 22 players leaving our accountants will surely be happy, as we would likely generate somewhere in the region of £120-£170m in transfer revenue and would free up way over £600,000 a week in wages, and with potentially very little coming in, the 3 mentioned above at absolute most costing £100m with £350,000 a week in wages, (obviously Emenalo will bring in some weird prospects to go on loan but at least there is wiggle room), the burden of losing out on CL revenue and the building of our new stadium will be greatly lessened. 

Brilliantly put. I would love it if all of this actually happened.

A squad of 

Gk - Tibo, Bego (HG), Jamal/Beeney (HG)

Def - Zouma, Bonucci, Azpi, Ake (HG), Andreas (HG), Jake-Clarke Salter (HG), Ivanovic, Baba

Mid - Matic, Cesc (HG), Radja, RLC (HG), Mvg, Baker (HG)

Forwards - Costa, Hazard, Willian, Traore (HG), Kenedy (HG), Musonda (HG)

I would absolutely Love this squad and maybe buy Gundogan for cesc.