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1 Bosnia and Herzegovina GK Asmir Begović
2 Serbia DF Branislav Ivanović (vice-captain)
4 Spain MF Cesc Fàbregas
5 France DF Kurt Zouma
6 Ghana DF Baba Rahman
7 Brazil MF Ramires
8 Brazil MF Oscar
9 Colombia FW Radamel Falcao (on loan from Monaco)
10 Belgium MF Eden Hazard
12 Nigeria MF John Obi Mikel
13 Belgium GK Thibaut Courtois
14 Burkina Faso MF Bertrand Traoré
16 Brazil FW Kenedy
17 Spain FW Pedro
No. Position Player
18 France FW Loïc Rémy
19 Spain FW Diego Costa
20 United States DF Matt Miazga
21 Serbia MF Nemanja Matić
22 Brazil MF Willian
24 England DF Gary Cahill
26 England DF John Terry (captain)
28 Spain DF César Azpilicueta
32 Italy GK Marco Amelia
33 England GK Mitchell Beeney
34 England DF Ola Aina
36 England MF Ruben Loftus-Cheek
37 England DF Jake Clarke-Salter
40 England GK Bradley Collins
For recent transfers, see 2015–16 Chelsea F.C. season.
 
Out on loan
 
No. Position Player
Croatia GK Matej Delač (on loan to Sarajevo until 30 June 2016)
England GK Jamal Blackman (on loan to Östersunds FK until 31 May 2016)
Czech Republic DF Tomáš Kalas (on loan to Middlesbrough until 30 June 2016)
Brazil DF Wallace (on loan to Grêmio until 30 June 2017)
Denmark DF Andreas Christensen (on loan to Borussia M'gladbach until 30 June 2016)
England DF Todd Kane (on loan to NEC Nijmegen until 30 June 2016)
Jamaica DF Michael Hector (on loan to Reading until 30 June 2016)
Netherlands DF Nathan Aké (on loan to Watford until 30 June 2016)
Nigeria DF Kenneth Omeruo (on loan to Kasımpaşa until 30 June 2016)
Scotland DF Alex Davey (on loan to Stabæk Fotball until 22 July 2016)
Senegal DF Papy Djilobodji (on loan to Werder Bremen until 30 June 2016)
Brazil MF Lucas Piazon (on loan to Reading until 30 June 2016)
Brazil MF Nathan (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2016)
Chile MF Cristián Cuevas (on loan to Sint-Truiden until 30 June 2016)
Colombia MF Juan Cuadrado (on loan to Juventus until 30 June 2016)
Croatia MF Mario Pašalić (on loan to Monaco until 30 June 2016)
England MF Isaiah Brown (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2016)
 

 

 

if you can choose a 25 man squad from that group above and have the record below then if you get sacked you can have no complaints and deserve no apologists. 

 

 
 

Season Managed Won Drew Lost Win %  

           

2015-16      16         4        3      9   25

Edited by g3.7
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1 Bosnia and Herzegovina GK Asmir Begović
2 Serbia DF Branislav Ivanović (vice-captain)
4 Spain MF Cesc Fàbregas
5 France DF Kurt Zouma
6 Ghana DF Baba Rahman
7 Brazil MF Ramires
8 Brazil MF Oscar
9 Colombia FW Radamel Falcao (on loan from Monaco)
10 Belgium MF Eden Hazard
12 Nigeria MF John Obi Mikel
13 Belgium GK Thibaut Courtois
14 Burkina Faso MF Bertrand Traoré
16 Brazil FW Kenedy
17 Spain FW Pedro
No. Position Player
18 France FW Loïc Rémy
19 Spain FW Diego Costa
20 United States DF Matt Miazga
21 Serbia MF Nemanja Matić
22 Brazil MF Willian
24 England DF Gary Cahill
26 England DF John Terry (captain)
28 Spain DF César Azpilicueta
32 Italy GK Marco Amelia
33 England GK Mitchell Beeney
34 England DF Ola Aina
36 England MF Ruben Loftus-Cheek
37 England DF Jake Clarke-Salter
40 England GK Bradley Collins
For recent transfers, see 2015–16 Chelsea F.C. season.
 
Out on loan
 
No. Position Player
— Croatia GK Matej Delač (on loan to Sarajevo until 30 June 2016)
— England GK Jamal Blackman (on loan to Östersunds FK until 31 May 2016)
— Czech Republic DF Tomáš Kalas (on loan to Middlesbrough until 30 June 2016)
— Brazil DF Wallace (on loan to Grêmio until 30 June 2017)
— Denmark DF Andreas Christensen (on loan to Borussia M'gladbach until 30 June 2016)
— England DF Todd Kane (on loan to NEC Nijmegen until 30 June 2016)
— Jamaica DF Michael Hector (on loan to Reading until 30 June 2016)
— Netherlands DF Nathan Aké (on loan to Watford until 30 June 2016)
— Nigeria DF Kenneth Omeruo (on loan to Kasımpaşa until 30 June 2016)
— Scotland DF Alex Davey (on loan to Stabæk Fotball until 22 July 2016)
— Senegal DF Papy Djilobodji (on loan to Werder Bremen until 30 June 2016)
— Brazil MF Lucas Piazon (on loan to Reading until 30 June 2016)
— Brazil MF Nathan (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2016)
— Chile MF Cristián Cuevas (on loan to Sint-Truiden until 30 June 2016)
— Colombia MF Juan Cuadrado (on loan to Juventus until 30 June 2016)
— Croatia MF Mario Pašalić (on loan to Monaco until 30 June 2016)
— England MF Isaiah Brown (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2016)
 

 

 

if you can choose a 25 man squad from that group above and have the record below then if you get sacked you can have no complaints and deserve no apologists. 

 

 
 

Season Managed Won Drew Lost Win %  

           

2015-16      16         4        3      9   25

 

 

 

If it was your first season in charge I would agree with you..... This shouldn't be looked at in isolation, fact is we have won 3 league titles with Jose, multiple cups. That credit should have been taken in to account for me. The truth is, we haven't really improved since Gus has come in, a couple of players have looked better but as a team you wouldn't say we are top notch. A couple of the losses we had have become draws, but in general you can't tell me that finishing 10th with half a season to play was what Roman expected.

 

Also, perhaps you are over estimating the players listed above. All look talented on paper but I think we have enough evidence to suggest that there is a lack of leaders in that list, a lack of players who stand up with the sh*t hits the fan 

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If it was your first season in charge I would agree with you..... This shouldn't be looked at in isolation, fact is we have won 3 league titles with Jose, multiple cups. That credit should have been taken in to account for me. The truth is, we haven't really improved since Gus has come in, a couple of players have looked better but as a team you wouldn't say we are top notch. A couple of the losses we had have become draws, but in general you can't tell me that finishing 10th with half a season to play was what Roman expected.

Also, perhaps you are over estimating the players listed above. All look talented on paper but I think we have enough evidence to suggest that there is a lack of leaders in that list, a lack of players who stand up with the sh*t hits the fan

Rubbish. We have managed to increase Mikel's happiness and that is what matters.
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you say that now but I recall you defending carlo's sacking (finished the league in 2nd place). you were happy to judge carlo's second season in isolation as we fell to the depths of second. do you stand by that in hindsight or not?

 

you say we haven't improved, but a fairly average job by guus has yielded us an unbeaten run SEVEN times longer than any of jose's this season. we were how many points off the relegation zone when jose was sacked? care to remind me? conceding an average of how many goals per game? guus has made us a reasonable mid table side and to that end he's been by a distance better than jose this season. by an absolute distance.

 

played 16, lost 9. that squad. when I say they should be doing much better trust me, I'm definitely not overestimating them.

 

not acceptable and if we're honest, the board's biggest mistake this season I'm sorry to say was not sacking him earlier. we may still have had a chance to finish in the top 4 had they acted earlier. of course, BECAUSE it was jose they afforded him something no other manager has been afforded- reduced expectations and an extra two months. during which things didn't improve at all.

 

I take your point about leaders. but leadership ultimately comes from the manager.

 

and many, many, many people in this thread would agree that the buck stops with the manager. well... they have in the past. now it is "the buck stops with the manager- except for this time where because the club didn't sign john stones (currently sitting on the everton bench) and paul pogba (who was devastated not to get his dream move to chelsea) it is actually nothing to do with the manager".

 

the record is enough. it makes the argument better than you or I could. but allow me to gild the lily. a huge reason why we struggled to sign stones was because jose angered martinez with his comments in the press. now martinez was being a complete hypocrite but the fact remains that even when it comes to the transfer policy in the summer jose's fingerprints exist. also do not forget it was jose's idea to cut short the pre season campaign. he is the ultimate architect of our downfall this season. he's one of my biggest footballing heroes but this is the truth of the matter. I'm sure as time passes he'll leak out excuses to certain parts of the press through intermediaries and distance himself for responsibility. I won't hold it against him, that is part of who he is. but I won't forget how fundamentally culpable he was this season, nor the way he distanced himself from blame at the expense of many other people at the club whilst he was still employed by us.

 

as I say- one of my footballing heroes, but he's a flawed man who has now twice cast a spell over the majority of our support upon leaving that hurt us before and will hurt us again. it's time to wake up.

 

 

to repeat:

 

 

Season Managed Won Drew Lost Win %  

           

2015-16      16         4        3      9   25

 

it simply is not a defensible record.

Edited by g3.7
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you say that now but I recall you defending carlo's sacking (finished the league in 2nd place). you were happy to judge carlo's second season in isolation as we fell to the depths of second. do you stand by that in hindsight or not?

 

you say we haven't improved, but a fairly average job by guus has yielded us an unbeaten run SEVEN times longer than any of jose's this season. we were how many points off the relegation zone when jose was sacked? care to remind me? conceding an average of how many goals per game? guus has made us a reasonable mid table side and to that end he's been by a distance better than jose this season. by an absolute distance.

 

played 16, lost 9. that squad. when I say they should be doing much better trust me, I'm definitely not overestimating them.

 

not acceptable and if we're honest, the board's biggest mistake this season I'm sorry to say was not sacking him earlier. we may still have had a chance to finish in the top 4 had they acted earlier. of course, BECAUSE it was jose they afforded him something no other manager has been afforded- reduced expectations and an extra two months. during which things didn't improve at all.

 

I take your point about leaders. but leadership ultimately comes from the manager.

 

and many, many, many people in this thread would agree that the buck stops with the manager. well... they have in the past. now it is "the buck stops with the manager- except for this time where because the club didn't sign john stones (currently sitting on the everton bench) and paul pogba (who was devastated not to get his dream move to chelsea) it is actually nothing to do with the manager".

 

the record is enough. it makes the argument better than you or I could. but allow me to gild the lily. a huge reason why we struggled to sign stones was because jose angered martinez with his comments in the press. now martinez was being a complete hypocrite but the fact remains that even when it comes to the transfer policy in the summer jose's fingerprints exist. also do not forget it was jose's idea to cut short the pre season campaign. he is the ultimate architect of our downfall this season. he's one of my biggest footballing heroes but this is the truth of the matter. I'm sure as time passes he'll leak out excuses to certain parts of the press through intermediaries and distance himself for responsibility. I won't hold it against him, that is part of who he is. but I won't forget how fundamentally culpable he was this season, nor the way he distanced himself from blame at the expense of many other people at the club whilst he was still employed by us.

 

as I say- one of my footballing heroes, but he's a flawed man who has now twice cast a spell over the majority of our support upon leaving that hurt us before and will hurt us again. it's time to wake up.

 

 

to repeat:

 

 

Season Managed Won Drew Lost Win %  

           

2015-16      16         4        3      9   25

 

it simply is not a defensible record.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with this.

 

This is the problem about this whole saga.

 

I'm pretty sure 100% of Chelsea fans loved Jose and wanted him to turn it around, then there comes a point when you think."hold on a minute, the future of my club is more important than the manager", Unfortunately the right decision in the end was made, due to the Jose losing the plot against a bunch of spoilt players. It's a war no manager can win..ever! You can take on 1 or maybe 2 players but you can't take on 8+.

 

Some people fail to accept that and will vent anger at anyone but Jose, whether that be Eva, Costa, Cesc, Hazard, Roman, Emanalo etc.

 

The sackings handed out to Carlo and RDM were 10x less justified than this one.

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If it was your first season in charge I would agree with you..... This shouldn't be looked at in isolation, fact is we have won 3 league titles with Jose, multiple cups. That credit should have been taken in to account for me. The truth is, we haven't really improved since Gus has come in, a couple of players have looked better but as a team you wouldn't say we are top notch. A couple of the losses we had have become draws, but in general you can't tell me that finishing 10th with half a season to play was what Roman expected.

 

Also, perhaps you are over estimating the players listed above. All look talented on paper but I think we have enough evidence to suggest that there is a lack of leaders in that list, a lack of players who stand up with the sh*t hits the fan 

 

Can you pick out a bunch of leaders from the clubs above us? I think we have no less leaders in our department. Problem is, they were all badly out of form.

 

Just imagine for one sec that Jose went into this season recognising our shortfalls but said to himself,

 

"you know what, this year will be tough to retain the title, I expect City to take us all the way with Arsenal and Man Utd, but my guys were not champions by luck. If I can get them enjoying their football and to trust me, I'm confident that as a team we can achieve good things and if we fall short like we did in 2014, we will hold our heads high and go again the next season"

 

Not envisaging that our rivals have also had shocking seasons, a calm and confident approach without the Eva saga and constant whining about players and refs could've seen us nick another title this season or at least challenge for it. Even keeping them on their toes by promoting RLC, Kennedy, Traore, Musonda, Solanke, Christensen and Kalas to replace poor performers in hindsight would've been a good approach in my opinion. The manager shouldn't  need this hindsight however.

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you say that now but I recall you defending carlo's sacking (finished the league in 2nd place). you were happy to judge carlo's second season in isolation as we fell to the depths of second. do you stand by that in hindsight or not?

 

you say we haven't improved, but a fairly average job by guus has yielded us an unbeaten run SEVEN times longer than any of jose's this season. we were how many points off the relegation zone when jose was sacked? care to remind me? conceding an average of how many goals per game? guus has made us a reasonable mid table side and to that end he's been by a distance better than jose this season. by an absolute distance.

 

played 16, lost 9. that squad. when I say they should be doing much better trust me, I'm definitely not overestimating them.

 

 

The thing is that under Hiddink, we've got one win from seven home games. Now you could point to the away record but those matches were a mixed bag too, especially Southampton and Norwich away.

 

The squad is fundamentally unbalanced and performing at nowhere near the level it did last season. Quite how we managed to win the league I'm still not sure but Jose was doing something right then. The fact that you're talking only about this season is key because something changed in the summer. The squad became weaker. That's why we can't just limit it to the coach's responsibility.

 

not acceptable and if we're honest, the board's biggest mistake this season I'm sorry to say was not sacking him earlier. we may still have had a chance to finish in the top 4 had they acted earlier. of course, BECAUSE it was jose they afforded him something no other manager has been afforded- reduced expectations and an extra two months. during which things didn't improve at all.

 

 

The club reduced expectations when they reduced the strength of the squad in the summer didn't they? If you don't accept that then you tell me hand on heart that this club was determined to regain it's Premier League title.

 

I take your point about leaders. but leadership ultimately comes from the manager.

 

 

Don't actually agree with that entirely. He needs capable lieutenants on the pitch, and the prime example of this is 2012. Di Matteo is by no means a great coach but he had a group of players who knew what it was to win.

 

We don't have that in this squad after losing people like Drogba, Cech and even Luis.

 

 

and many, many, many people in this thread would agree that the buck stops with the manager. well... they have in the past. now it is "the buck stops with the manager- except for this time where because the club didn't sign john stones (currently sitting on the everton bench) and paul pogba (who was devastated not to get his dream move to chelsea) it is actually nothing to do with the manager".

 

 

You can cite specific examples but the truth is that we have a board who oversaw a weakening of a playing squad when it clearly needed strengthening.

 

 

the record is enough. it makes the argument better than you or I could. but allow me to gild the lily. a huge reason why we struggled to sign stones was because jose angered martinez with his comments in the press. now martinez was being a complete hypocrite but the fact remains that even when it comes to the transfer policy in the summer jose's fingerprints exist. also do not forget it was jose's idea to cut short the pre season campaign. he is the ultimate architect of our downfall this season. he's one of my biggest footballing heroes but this is the truth of the matter. I'm sure as time passes he'll leak out excuses to certain parts of the press through intermediaries and distance himself for responsibility. I won't hold it against him, that is part of who he is. but I won't forget how fundamentally culpable he was this season, nor the way he distanced himself from blame at the expense of many other people at the club whilst he was still employed by us.

 

For someone you claim is a hero, there's not a huge amount of love or patience that I'm getting from this. I understand that isn't something that's perhaps as important nowadays but Jose was a huge part of this club. He defined the Abramovich-era in many ways and I think losing him and JT after everything else will see us lose a bit of our identity. That may be something you don't get back for a while and all because of a 16 match record.

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The thing is that under Hiddink, we've got one win from seven home games. Now you could point to the away record but those matches were a mixed bag too, especially Southampton and Norwich away.

 

The damage was already done but nonetheless we have recovered massively in points and positions from when Jose got sacked. If the league started when Hiddink arrived we would be top 5 ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool and City.

 

The squad is fundamentally unbalanced and performing at nowhere near the level it did last season. Quite how we managed to win the league I'm still not sure but Jose was doing something right then. The fact that you're talking only about this season is key because something changed in the summer. The squad became weaker. That's why we can't just limit it to the coach's responsibility.

 

It's plain obvious how we won the league. We had a blistering start playing good football, the manager was in harmony with the players and we had Schurlle popping up with a few crucial goals. After Christmas we sold him, and ground out results until May. At the same time, our rivals had a terrible start and faulted also into the New Year. 

Jose was not forced to sell any first team players, the only one who went was Cech and holding him against his well, can't be good for squad hamony. Even if he did replace Tibo, results would've still been the same as Bergs didn't put a foot wrong.

 

Stop with this squad became weaker crap as if we had to sell several star players and didn't invest in the market at all. Crikey if we became weaker, then what about Spurs who hardly spent a penny.

 

Don't actually agree with that entirely. He needs capable lieutenants on the pitch, and the prime example of this is 2012. Di Matteo is by no means a great coach but he had a group of players who knew what it was to win.

 

We don't have that in this squad after losing people like Drogba, Cech and even Luis.

 

How many lietenants does one need to avoid having the start we have? I would say Cahill, JT, Ivan and Cesc are capable of leading this team. You place too much emphasis on leaders. What matters more is tactics and how the team is set up to play. Obviously Jose wasn't getting the best out of this squad any longer. Blimey he even had to sub one of our leaders at half time vs Man City and he wasn't even injured.

 

The 14 clubs above us before Jose got sacked weren't engrossed on having a plethora of leaders on the pitch. They were more focussed on just playing football for managers who they were motivated to play for.

 

RDM had the same players as AVB who didn't have a clue how to win consistently under his management.

 

For someone you claim is a hero, there's not a huge amount of love or patience that I'm getting from this. I understand that isn't something that's perhaps as important nowadays but Jose was a huge part of this club. He defined the Abramovich-era in many ways and I think losing him and JT after everything else will see us lose a bit of our identity. That may be something you don't get back for a while and all because of a 16 match record.

 

We all recognise Jose is a hero during the majority of his time here, you don't have to be so far up his behind though. All this identity crap means nothing if you're losing week in week out. Jose and even JT may be bigger than the club in your eyes but not mine.

 

I know I'm discussing with you in another thread and you were quoting g3 but I'm sorry you're posts wreak of delusion and silly excuses.

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sorry to be a pain but I'll be taking those points back to front (i.e. 5 is your last paragraph, 4 your second last etc)

 

1- you don't need to infer patience or love from my words about jose and I won't spend a second justifying myself or my support. I don't need to be told about his place in our history either, thanks.

 

2- whether the squad was weakened or not is debatable. the club had no choice with cech- he had a year left on his deal and jose as well as the club told him he could go where he wanted. that was a consequence of making courtois first choice. the choice was either honouring the agreement with cech and making £10m or reneging on the agreement that saw him happy to stay as second choice for a season (with all of the consequences that would entail) and losing him to arsenal this summer for free. jose and the club had no choice on this one really. criticising jose for making courtois first choice is possible, criticising the club for sanctioning the sale is possible, but I don't think either would be fair. after that jose wanted begovic badly and got him.

 

meanwhile falcao came in for drogba. jose sanctioned drogba's exit and he was the driving force behind falcao's loan. he allowed luis to leave and sanctioned us signing rahman. we lost a defender who never played on loan and signed one permamently who never played. the club also signed pedro who he wanted having allowed cuadrado to go out on loan.

 

not one first choice player left the club and in pedro only one was signed. it wasn't a great window at all. in fact it was the worst window for a while in truth. whether we improved or got worse is hard to say. certainly drogba and cech have been big losses in the dressing room (it appears). in any case I thought then and I think now that compared to our rivals it pointed to a second place finish to man city looking at the business done. that is bad, but long term it would be a storm we could and should have weathered. given how poorly city have actually done I think we should be top of this league with what we have.  

 

weakened squad or not 9 losses in 16 league game does not reflect the raw materials he had at his disposal. that is not anywhere near par. it isn't even merely near below par. it is, relative to resources, the worst half season I think I have ever seen in the premier league.

 

3. I repeat my opinion- leadership in the squad comes from, above all, the manager.

 

if we were going into the squad with too few leaders in the squad I hold the manager squarely responsible. pogba was a pie in the sky punt that was never going to happen. what leaders did jose target and not get? was john stones the difference between 9 defeats in 16 and (lets go for a conservative guess) man united's position? I don't see a squad packed with leaders there. or at stoke. or southampton. or west ham. or bournemouth. these are just some of the sides that were (and are) doing better than us. not better than us relative to resources. better than us full stop. I don't think how bad we were has fully sunk in. I sat in my seat as I have for 15 odd years and watched us play a bournemouth side with severe injury problems without one striker on the pitch. and they duly passed us off the park en route to a comfortable win. and that, arguably, wasn't in our top 3 worst performances of the season.

 

4. sort of responded with in 2. but the club did bid £40m for john stones because jose wanted him. they did loan out a £25m player because jose no longer wanted him after 6 months and about 200 on pitch minutes and they did sign pedro for a similar fee. I think the club was determined to win the league again but I don't think they showed the type of ambition to make us a major side in europe. I think they believed jose would use some of the younger players as much as he suggested. they can take no pride over their summer work though and bidding for pogba so late on was ridiculous. I don't know who at the club thought that was feasible. again. it would justify us finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th. I think jose might have even survived in fifth possibly if he kept his players on side. it doesn't justify how our league season actually panned out.

 

5. as I say, overall hiddink has done an average job. he's restored structure to the defence, confidence to the squad (with the notable exception of matic) and form to a couple of key players. he's also used the kids more (but not enough for my liking). he hasn't brought back the team from previous seasons and nor has he sufficiently motivated the group to put a consistent run of wins together at any stage. despite that he's done a job far, far better than jose with a squad he has very little responsibility in creating.

 

if a squad only marginally improves, marginally weakens or stays still and rivals catch up you can expect to drop a few positions. if you develop your young players then your squad should improve even without signing which was part of jose's remit and part that he never really looked that bothered with in my opinion. in any case. if we were sat here, third at the end of the season and jose still in charge and the players still onside then I would be saying that the board need to learn from their bad summer business.  as it is jose was sacked in december having lost more league games than he ever had done before.

 

we're not talking about mere under performance. we're talking about a half season of management so all encompassing in its failure that the manager had to be sacked to guarantee a side that had finished no lower than 6th (an anomalously low position in itself) in the previous 12 years did not get relegated. it is impossible to overstate how bad we were.

Edited by g3.7
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The damage was already done but nonetheless we have recovered massively in points and positions from when Jose got sacked. If the league started when Hiddink arrived we would be top 5 ahead of Arsenal, Liverpool and City.

 

 

 

That's not how statistics work. 

 

 

It's plain obvious how we won the league. We had a blistering start playing good football, the manager was in harmony with the players and we had Schurlle popping up with a few crucial goals. After Christmas we sold him, and ground out results until May. At the same time, our rivals had a terrible start and faulted also into the New Year. 

Jose was not forced to sell any first team players, the only one who went was Cech and holding him against his well, can't be good for squad hamony. Even if he did replace Tibo, results would've still been the same as Bergs didn't put a foot wrong.

 

 

So Jose, the ultimate chequebook coach according to some, was happy to have such a poor squad and spend so little? You may be open to believing that but I'm certainly not.

 

 

Stop with this squad became weaker crap as if we had to sell several star players and didn't invest in the market at all. Crikey if we became weaker, then what about Spurs who hardly spent a penny.

 

 

The squad did become weaker. I've made that case many times. Calling a fellow supporter's opinion 'crap' despite it clearly having some merit is a little childish.

 

 

How many lietenants does one need to avoid having the start we have? I would say Cahill, JT, Ivan and Cesc are capable of leading this team. You place too much emphasis on leaders. What matters more is tactics and how the team is set up to play. Obviously Jose wasn't getting the best out of this squad any longer. Blimey he even had to sub one of our leaders at half time vs Man City and he wasn't even injured.

 

The 14 clubs above us before Jose got sacked weren't engrossed on having a plethora of leaders on the pitch. They were more focussed on just playing football for managers who they were motivated to play for.

 

RDM had the same players as AVB who didn't have a clue how to win consistently under his management.

 

 

 

What Robbie did was bring back players like Lamps and Ashley and allowed them to play the way they knew how to. 

 

 

We all recognise Jose is a hero during the majority of his time here, you don't have to be so far up his behind though. All this identity crap means nothing if you're losing week in week out. Jose and even JT may be bigger than the club in your eyes but not mine.

 

I know I'm discussing with you in another thread and you were quoting g3 but I'm sorry you're posts wreak of delusion and silly excuses.

 

'Identity crap'. There it is. Look, I respect that you have your opinion and I think we're just going to get nastier if we keep going so I'll leave it like this.

 

But Konakai blue is the perfect name for you, because when I think of what the So Bar was and what the Konakai is, well it's apt.

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Statistics can work any way you want them to.

 

Jose has spent more than many other manager since he came back. Enough to build his own squad to last several years with the added bonus of not being forced to lose any first team players.

 

Robbie brang back Lamps and Cole who were motivated and showed their experience in cup games. Through massive luck and briliance from Cech and Drogba, we saved ourselves a terrible end to the season as our league form was still bad once AVB left. Credit to Robbie, though, we had to prioritise the cups.

 

Yeah whatever, you can insinuate that I'm soulless or whatever but at the end of the day, you chat a bag of sh*te. Someone needs to call Vardy to finish you off hahaha.

 

Anyway I'm done debating with you for now.

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sorry to be a pain but I'll be taking those points back to front (i.e. 5 is your last paragraph, 4 your second last etc)

 

1- you don't need to infer patience or love from my words about jose and I won't spend a second justifying myself or my support. I don't need to be told about his place in our history either, thanks.

 

2- whether the squad was weakened or not is debatable. the club had no choice with cech- he had a year left on his deal and jose as well as the club told him he could go where he wanted. that was a consequence of making courtois first choice. the choice was either honouring the agreement with cech and making £10m or reneging on the agreement that saw him happy to stay as second choice for a season (with all of the consequences that would entail) and losing him to arsenal this summer for free. jose and the club had no choice on this one really. criticising jose for making courtois first choice is possible, criticising the club for sanctioning the sale is possible, but I don't think either would be fair. after that jose wanted begovic badly and got him.

 

meanwhile falcao came in for drogba. jose sanctioned drogba's exit and he was the driving force behind falcao's loan. he allowed luis to leave and sanctioned us signing rahman. we lost a defender who never played on loan and signed one permamently who never played. the club also signed pedro who he wanted having allowed cuadrado to go out on loan.

 

not one first choice player left the club and in pedro only one was signed. it wasn't a great window at all. in fact it was the worst window for a while in truth. whether we improved or got worse is hard to say. certainly drogba and cech have been big losses in the dressing room (it appears). in any case I thought then and I think now that compared to our rivals it pointed to a second place finish to man city looking at the business done. that is bad, but long term it would be a storm we could and should have weathered. given how poorly city have actually done I think we should be top of this league with what we have.  

 

weakened squad or not 9 losses in 16 league game does not reflect the raw materials he had at his disposal. that is not anywhere near par. it isn't even merely near below par. it is, relative to resources, the worst half season I think I have ever seen in the premier league.

 

3. I repeat my opinion- leadership in the squad comes from, above all, the manager.

 

if we were going into the squad with too few leaders in the squad I hold the manager squarely responsible. pogba was a pie in the sky punt that was never going to happen. what leaders did jose target and not get? was john stones the difference between 9 defeats in 16 and (lets go for a conservative guess) man united's position? I don't see a squad packed with leaders there. or at stoke. or southampton. or west ham. or bournemouth. these are just some of the sides that were (and are) doing better than us. not better than us relative to resources. better than us full stop. I don't think how bad we were has fully sunk in. I sat in my seat as I have for 15 odd years and watched us play a bournemouth side with severe injury problems without one striker on the pitch. and they duly passed us off the park en route to a comfortable win. and that, arguably, wasn't in our top 3 worst performances of the season.

 

4. sort of responded with in 2. but the club did bid £40m for john stones because jose wanted him. they did loan out a £25m player because jose no longer wanted him after 6 months and about 200 on pitch minutes and they did sign pedro for a similar fee. I think the club was determined to win the league again but I don't think they showed the type of ambition to make us a major side in europe. I think they believed jose would use some of the younger players as much as he suggested. they can take no pride over their summer work though and bidding for pogba so late on was ridiculous. I don't know who at the club thought that was feasible. again. it would justify us finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th. I think jose might have even survived in fifth possibly if he kept his players on side. it doesn't justify how our league season actually panned out.

 

5. as I say, overall hiddink has done an average job. he's restored structure to the defence, confidence to the squad (with the notable exception of matic) and form to a couple of key players. he's also used the kids more (but not enough for my liking). he hasn't brought back the team from previous seasons and nor has he sufficiently motivated the group to put a consistent run of wins together at any stage. despite that he's done a job far, far better than jose with a squad he has very little responsibility in creating.

 

if a squad only marginally improves, marginally weakens or stays still and rivals catch up you can expect to drop a few positions. if you develop your young players then your squad should improve even without signing which was part of jose's remit and part that he never really looked that bothered with in my opinion. in any case. if we were sat here, third at the end of the season and jose still in charge and the players still onside then I would be saying that the board need to learn from their bad summer business.  as it is jose was sacked in december having lost more league games than he ever had done before.

 

we're not talking about mere under performance. we're talking about a half season of management so all encompassing in its failure that the manager had to be sacked to guarantee a side that had finished no lower than 6th (an anomalously low position in itself) in the previous 12 years did not get relegated. it is impossible to overstate how bad we were.

 

1. I don't know. Sometimes it's easy to forget just how much Jose changed about the attitude of this club. Not saying you weren't aware or forgot, but sometimes I think even the most ardent supporter downplays it.

 

2. For me it isn't debatable in the slightest. We downgraded in a few positions but we lost a huge amount of character and leadership last summer. Some people don't think those things are important, I do. I think it's what wins you trophies. Now you can try and replace that with quality, but we didn't do that either. We signed busted flushes, young players with questionable potential or bit-part players in great sides. We didn't sign a single new player who made the first team better in my opinion. The best you can say is we stagnated and that's not good enough.

 

3. And I repeat my opinion, you need leaders in the squad too.

 

4. I take your point that we tried to sign Pogba and Stones - but was there no contingency plan? Was the next person on the list after Stones, Djilobodgi? Again, that's a case of poor planning that in any other industry would probably be commented on by observers. 

 

5. For me Hiddink has played safe and got safe results. 

 

 

Look, we know the stats but the supporters were still backing Jose in the main. That's how important he was to us and I think they would've backed him all season. 

 

Now we have to hope that the club properly backs Conte and allows him to build a new identity at this club because it's been systematically dismantled over the last few years by those running it. Last May we were perfectly set up to go on to become one of the top clubs in Europe, and by the end of this season the club will have spent £9 million NET.  That is the key stat for me this season. 

 

I appreciate what you're saying but I disagree and I think that the choices that the owner and the board have made all season long have made us a much poorer, soulless club.

Edited by ShedEnder91
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I don't think anyone can truthfully look at that squad I posted, and the league record in the same post and say that the record is an accurate reflection of the quality of that group of players.  that is what it comes down to. jose is the ultimate results-are-everything manager. he doesn't have an overarching style of play or club building plan to fall back on. he could not point to a raft of young players he was integrating. results are all he cares about and no one should feel guilty for judging him on that basis.

 

if he was chairman and his manager produced those results he'd have sacked him sooner.

 

if you think that those results are true reflection of our squad then you must be delighted that hiddink has them over performing.

 

p.s.

 

shedend91- jose was backed because he was and is a huge club legend. everyone was absolutely desperate for him to turn it around. every game I would cling to the hope that there would be some sign of recovery, no matter how small, but it never came.

 

I think it is telling that in the bridge you don't hear anyone singing for jose to come back. it is terrible the way things fell apart but the truth is given the choice between jose and conte next season I suspect most would take conte. the truth is that even if the fanbase isn't ready to openly admit it, it knows that the decision to let him go was the correct one. it is angry at the players. it is angry with the vague concept of the board (because it cannot be with abramovich) but it knows that whatever mistakes were made in the summer jose had to go.

Edited by g3.7
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you say that now but I recall you defending carlo's sacking (finished the league in 2nd place). you were happy to judge carlo's second season in isolation as we fell to the depths of second. do you stand by that in hindsight or not?

you say we haven't improved, but a fairly average job by guus has yielded us an unbeaten run SEVEN times longer than any of jose's this season. we were how many points off the relegation zone when jose was sacked? care to remind me? conceding an average of how many goals per game? guus has made us a reasonable mid table side and to that end he's been by a distance better than jose this season. by an absolute distance.

played 16, lost 9. that squad. when I say they should be doing much better trust me, I'm definitely not overestimating them.

not acceptable and if we're honest, the board's biggest mistake this season I'm sorry to say was not sacking him earlier. we may still have had a chance to finish in the top 4 had they acted earlier. of course, BECAUSE it was jose they afforded him something no other manager has been afforded- reduced expectations and an extra two months. during which things didn't improve at all.

I take your point about leaders. but leadership ultimately comes from the manager.

and many, many, many people in this thread would agree that the buck stops with the manager. well... they have in the past. now it is "the buck stops with the manager- except for this time where because the club didn't sign john stones (currently sitting on the everton bench) and paul pogba (who was devastated not to get his dream move to chelsea) it is actually nothing to do with the manager".

the record is enough. it makes the argument better than you or I could. but allow me to gild the lily. a huge reason why we struggled to sign stones was because jose angered martinez with his comments in the press. now martinez was being a complete hypocrite but the fact remains that even when it comes to the transfer policy in the summer jose's fingerprints exist. also do not forget it was jose's idea to cut short the pre season campaign. he is the ultimate architect of our downfall this season. he's one of my biggest footballing heroes but this is the truth of the matter. I'm sure as time passes he'll leak out excuses to certain parts of the press through intermediaries and distance himself for responsibility. I won't hold it against him, that is part of who he is. but I won't forget how fundamentally culpable he was this season, nor the way he distanced himself from blame at the expense of many other people at the club whilst he was still employed by us.

as I say- one of my footballing heroes, but he's a flawed man who has now twice cast a spell over the majority of our support upon leaving that hurt us before and will hurt us again. it's time to wake up.

to repeat:

Season Managed Won Drew Lost Win %

2015-16 16 4 3 9 25

it simply is not a defensible record.

No time right now but I read the Carlo bit, I have always stood by the simple fact that I don't rate Carlo as top brass, in the season we won the league I fealt player for player we where the best team by some way, Ronaldo leaving United hurt them but games where either score a million goals or grind and you could see the inevitable some times, Blackburn away as a prime example that season. So yes I was ok with Carlo because I never really rated him, I still rare Jose as one of the best in the world and that's why I'm happy to afford him the credit that I wasn't Carlo. For me it's simple, I rate one highly and not the other

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Statistics can work any way you want them to.

Jose has spent more than many other manager since he came back. Enough to build his own squad to last several years with the added bonus of not being forced to lose any first team players.

Robbie brang back Lamps and Cole who were motivated and showed their experience in cup games. Through massive luck and briliance from Cech and Drogba, we saved ourselves a terrible end to the season as our league form was still bad once AVB left. Credit to Robbie, though, we had to prioritise the cups.

Yeah whatever, you can insinuate that I'm soulless or whatever but at the end of the day, you chat a bag of sh*te. Someone needs to call Vardy to finish you off hahaha.

Anyway I'm done debating with you for now.

What are you, like 15

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I don't think anyone can truthfully look at that squad I posted, and the league record in the same post and say that the record is an accurate reflection of the quality of that group of players.  that is what it comes down to. jose is the ultimate results-are-everything manager. he doesn't have an overarching style of play or club building plan to fall back on. he could not point to a raft of young players he was integrating. results are all he cares about and no one should feel guilty for judging him on that basis.

 

 

You can post that list, or you could look at how they performed last season. Great for the first few months but after Christmas it became obvious that there were issues that needed addressing and the Champions League tie against PSG perfectly illustrated that. There was something missing, for me it was a bit of quality at the back and something in the middle of the park.

 

The board did absolutely nothing to rectify. Nothing. 

 

 

if you think that those results are true reflection of our squad then you must be delighted that hiddink has them over performing.

 

 

I think Jose definitely had them over-performing. Just think what he could've done if the board had invested new money into the squad.

 

 

shedend91- jose was backed because he was and is a huge club legend. everyone was absolutely desperate for him to turn it around. every game I would cling to the hope that there would be some sign of recovery, no matter how small, but it never came.

 

I think it is telling that in the bridge you don't hear anyone singing for jose to come back. it is terrible the way things fell apart but the truth is given the choice between jose and conte next season I suspect most would take conte. the truth is that even if the fanbase isn't ready to openly admit it, it knows that the decision to let him go was the correct one. it is angry at the players. it is angry with the vague concept of the board (because it cannot be with abramovich) but it knows that whatever mistakes were made in the summer jose had to go.

 

What do you hear people singing at the Bridge at the moment? Oh right, nothing. The atmosphere is as flat as it has been in years. It's not outwardly hostile like it was under Benitez, but it's sh*t nonetheless.

 

What I will tell you though is that there's no love for this particular group of players beyond people like JT and some of the youngsters. Last May we hoisted Drogba on the shoulders of players and carried him off. We had JT and Mourinho in front of the Matthew Harding celebrating WITH the fans.

 

Now we have none of that. We could've backed this coach in the summer and we didn't. Maybe we recover from that, maybe we don't but right now this club is having the very heart torn out of it one piece at a time. Some people understood what this club was about. Now, who tells new players coming into the club what it means to be part of Chelsea? 

 

That's what we lost in December. You can focus on us losing 9 games, but there's always more games.

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