13 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'm going Amsterdam end of this month, if we all chip in i'll bring him someone back from the Red Light District. Could have prime Neuer on our hands in no time.

Going to Amsterdam again? 

Don't bring someone home for Kepa that will wear him out though. He needs to be fit, not knackered .

15 hours ago, dkw said:

Cech. Yes, he got better and better, he was behind the best defence the English league has ever seen when he first came here. Later when the defence wasn't as good he played better, his best season in my opinion was 2012 when he was 30.

And the fact your pointing out these keepers winng things at 27 goes completely against your argument, you see that right. You ask any keeper when they think they were at there best and its always around 30, it's when they peak with positional knowledge, timing, decision making etc and are still agile and quick. 

There's a reason the average age of keepers in the top leagues in Europe is 27+.

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr22/en/phone/index.html

I never mentioned Kepa, so keep your panties on pal. 

There are people who think we should keep kepa because he's still a youth product and that in 5 years time he could be one of the best in the world. 

Every world class keeper in the past 10 years was world class at 25. Average age is pointless, the best show it by now. 

15 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Keepers in general get in their prime between their 28 year and all up to when they are 32 years old.

This is in general but obviously a good keeper will get himself known to the world before he gets to be 29 years old. There is a dip in the performance after being 33 years of age in general.

Our examples of the general rule are actually Cudicini that was at his best when he was mentally the strongest, around 29-32 years of age (maybe it's also due to the fact that men such as myself reach the real maturity level after they are 30 years old, while women are in general more mature earlier lol).

The other example is Cech he was always a good keeper but keep in mind that when he got to be older than 25 he was at his best and even if he did win individual awards throughout his career he was at his prime after 2010, which would make him older than 28.

What on Earth is this nonsense. 

Disagree with all my examples. All of them were world class at 25. None of them improved significantly if at all. 

13 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Tibo was terrible with his feet though, if I were Eden I’d have been megging his every training session. Stay clever, keep them together. 

Thats true. Never seen so many nutmegs on a top Level keeper. 

3 hours ago, Valerie said:

Going to Amsterdam again? 

Don't bring someone home for Kepa that will wear him out though. He needs to be fit, not knackered .

Third time in a year, what can i say i love the place!

From what I have read from Ajax fans. Onana is already very good. He has great reflexes, good with feet, quick off his line, plays as a sweeper keeper, but the only area where he needs some improvement is long pass accuracy and clearing with his left foot.

It sounds like he is improving in these areas too though, especially with the long passing. If he has great GK coaching, there is no reason he can't be fantastic. Some of the Ajax fans i have read opinions from, think he can be a top 5 keeper in the future. 

On 08/02/2020 at 05:53, icecoolguy22 said:

I don't think we could afford another top GK even if we decide Kepa's Chelsea career is over. We aren't going to recoup half of what we paid if we let him rot on the bench, and any proven GK would cost 60M plus. I mean Pope is being mentioned, but he's playing for Burnley, hardly a great GK either, and probably cost cost around that 50M. I don't think we could afford to just give up on Kepa yet, especially with only 150M to play with, and 4-5 spots need to be filled

We also can't afford to stick with Kepa, as if we do, Champions league and all its riches will be gone.

On 08/02/2020 at 11:59, bisright1 said:

What on Earth is this nonsense. 

Disagree with all my examples. All of them were world class at 25. None of them improved significantly if at all. 

Midfielders in their prime years 27-29

Keepers in their prime years 29-32

A world class player might be a bit harder to spot if he was already good before the prime years but it's evident e.g. look at De Bruyne now he's in his prime, an example of someone that passed his prime is Neuer as a keeper being 33 years old, we let go Cech when he was 33 years old and when his performance dropped...

Obviously this doesn't really answer your question if I may say so, we simply can't be sure that Kepa will improve much, he is after all 25 years old and looks very scared to come off the line, his presence doesn't make the defense better that's for sure.
He would need to improve, significantly. That's the word you're using, significantly. It's not really evident if he can improve this much because he needs a serious improvement, I can agree with that.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Midfielders in their prime years 27-29

Keepers in their prime years 29-32

A world class player might be a bit harder to spot if he was already good before the prime years but it's evident e.g. look at De Bruyne now he's in his prime, an example of someone that passed his prime is Neuer as a keeper being 33 years old, we let go Cech when he was 33 years old and when his performance dropped...

Obviously this doesn't really answer your question if I may say so, we simply can't be sure that Kepa will improve much, he is after all 25 years old and looks very scared to come off the line, his presence doesn't make the defense better that's for sure.
He would need to improve, significantly. That's the word you're using, significantly. It's not really evident if he can improve this much because he needs a serious improvement, I can agree with that.

Personally a keepers prime for me is 26-32, I can't see any evidence that isn't the case. The significant majority of great keepers are first choice at a top club by the time they reach 24/25 and if they improve it's fractional. (Courtois and cech didn't improve for me).

We sold de bruyne when he was 22 and he had never played for us, whereas kepa has had 18 months to show us he's too sh*t scared to keep at this level. I've seen people compare kepa to de bruyne elsewhere. There is no comparison.  One was a mistake to sell, the other was a mistake to buy. 

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Midfielders in their prime years 27-29

Keepers in their prime years 29-32

A world class player might be a bit harder to spot if he was already good before the prime years but it's evident e.g. look at De Bruyne now he's in his prime, an example of someone that passed his prime is Neuer as a keeper being 33 years old, we let go Cech when he was 33 years old and when his performance dropped...

Obviously this doesn't really answer your question if I may say so, we simply can't be sure that Kepa will improve much, he is after all 25 years old and looks very scared to come off the line, his presence doesn't make the defense better that's for sure.
He would need to improve, significantly. That's the word you're using, significantly. It's not really evident if he can improve this much because he needs a serious improvement, I can agree with that.

No player has a set prime. You can't just say a player is gonna be at his best at a certain age for different positions.

You use Neuer as an example for a keeper being in his prime 29-32, yet Neuer was at his best when he was 25-28.

The money side of it is irrelevant for me as it isn't my money !
Kepa is weak. he doesn't marshall the defence, he only becomes vocal when he makes a save, ie. shouting at everyone with an air of i've done good now you lot need to buck up !!
His wrists are made of some pliable material as opposed to bone and muscle, oh and i'll never forgive him for the cup final tantrum.
Is it also a coincidence that since he took over as Spains number one they have slipped ?  

Get rid when we can, he's not even arguably one of the worst keepers in the PL, in virtually every stat he comes out in the bottom few. He just isn't good enough.

I think we should a bit of patience with Kepa. I felt the same with Courtios before he came out and pretty much said he wants to leave. 

There isn't a keeper out there that's a significant upgrade to Kepa in my opinion that would be available or even want to join. Admittedly this may change in the summer but it's unlikely.

Edited February 10, 20206 yr by Remodez

10 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

No player has a set prime. You can't just say a player is gonna be at his best at a certain age for different positions.

You use Neuer as an example for a keeper being in his prime 29-32, yet Neuer was at his best when he was 25-28.

I said in general. 27-29 for midfields, for keepers 29-32. So...

6 hours ago, Remodez said:

I think we should a bit of patience with Kepa. I felt the same with Courtios before he came out and pretty much said he wants to leave. 

There isn't a keeper out there that's a significant upgrade to Kepa in my opinion that would be available or even want to join. Admittedly this may change in the summer but it's unlikely.

He's had a bad season but as you say there are opportunities to improve. I think Frank and co will be looking at options but will try and stick with him if possible. He did cost 71m after all.

For me there are any number of keepers at Kepas level who are much stronger in the air, which is key for me in England. Quite a few young ones in France in particular. I think he'll get the second half of the season but it's really up to him.

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I said in general. 27-29 for midfields, for keepers 29-32. So...

Simply not true though, you can't be general about such things.

Cech peak 04-07. 22-25 years of age.

Neuer peak 12-15. 26-29 years of age.

De Gea peak 14-18. 24-28 years of age. Seems to currently be in a decline at 29 years old.

Oblak seems to be in his prime right now for the last year or two, only 27 years old.

Alisson similar to Oblak, prime at about 26-27 years old.

David Seamen was in his prime in about 1996-97, when he was 33 years old.

 

Point is everyone matures differently, you can't hold out hope that players will just get good at a certain age. Kepa has played nearly 300 professional games, if he was going to be world class, he would be.

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Simply not true though, you can't be general about such things.

Cech peak 04-07. 22-25 years of age.

Neuer peak 12-15. 26-29 years of age.

De Gea peak 14-18. 24-28 years of age. Seems to currently be in a decline at 29 years old.

Oblak seems to be in his prime right now for the last year or two, only 27 years old.

Alisson similar to Oblak, prime at about 26-27 years old.

David Seamen was in his prime in about 1996-97, when he was 33 years old.

 

Point is everyone matures differently, you can't hold out hope that players will just get good at a certain age. Kepa has played nearly 300 professional games, if he was going to be world class, he would be.

Just your opinion, not the general state of prime years for keepers. Sorry to disagree but you leave no choice.

Just now, Gol15 said:

Just your opinion, not the general state of prime years for keepers. Sorry to disagree but you leave no choice.

Yours is an opinion, i provided evidence to support my claims lol

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Yours is an opinion, i provided evidence to support my claims lol

You believe Cech was at his very best at 25 for example.

He was the Chelsea player of the year 2011, Golden Glove 2013-16' he basically performed at his best as an individual after he turned 28 years old :)

The average age of any world cup winning team is above 27 years old, hint at the prime years :)

Edited February 11, 20206 yr by Gol15

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You believe Cech was at his very best at 25 for example.

He was the Chelsea player of the year 2011, Golden Glove 2013-16' he basically performed at his best as an individual after he turned 28 years old 🙂

The average age of any world cup winning team is above 27 years old, hint at the prime years 🙂

Cech was at his best prior to his head injury. 

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You believe Cech was at his very best at 25 for example.

He was the Chelsea player of the year 2011, Golden Glove 2013-16' he basically performed at his best as an individual after he turned 28 years old 🙂

The average age of any world cup winning team is above 27 years old, hint at the prime years 🙂

Average age of France starting 11 in the WC final was 26.

Croatia's average age in the final was nearly 29.

Weird that the team in their prime didn't win, ay.

18 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Cech was at his best prior to his head injury. 

He was good but lets not forget he was also playing behind the best defence in the history of English football. 

It was harder and he had to do more work once he came back! 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Average age of France starting 11 in the WC final was 26.

Croatia's average age in the final was nearly 29.

Weird that the team in their prime didn't win, ay.

1962	Brazil	30.7
2006	Italy	29.6
1934	Italy	29
1954	West Germany	28.5
1994	Brazil	28.5
1998	France	28.3
1982	Italy	27.9
1990	West Germany	27.8
2010	Spain	27.3
1974	West Germany	27.1
1930	Uruguay	27
1970	Brazil	26.9
1966	England	26.7
1986	Argentina	26.7
2002	Brazil	26.6
1958	Brazil	26.3
1938	Italy	26.2
1950	Uruguay	25.9
1978	Argentina	25.7
Average		27.5

 

PS. learn what the phrase "in general" means.

Edited February 11, 20206 yr by Gol15

54 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Cech was at his best prior to his head injury. 

Before his injury he wasn't in his prime at all, sorry to disappoint you but if you think that he was at his prime being only 24-25 years old it would show that you have no real insight of the matter. He won the Golden Glove award 3 times after he was older than 27 years old and Cech actually was our best player of the season, as a keeper, being 29 years old.

Had he been at his best prior to his injury he wouldn't have stayed as our keeper for such a long time after that and he wouldn't have been more in the spotlight.

isn't that Google a wonderful thing -aiding argumentative buggers since 1998

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You believe Cech was at his very best at 25 for example.

He was the Chelsea player of the year 2011, Golden Glove 2013-16' he basically performed at his best as an individual after he turned 28 years old 🙂

The average age of any world cup winning team is above 27 years old, hint at the prime years 🙂

This is a fun debate to watch but regardless, you me and @RIP Mourinho all agree that Kepa does not have the ability to be our number 1 keeper, it doesn't matter when his prime is, because it won't be good enough. My argument had always been if they don't show it by now, they won't ever show it. Kepa has too many fundamental flaws.

The second argument banded about (not be you) is "but we paid 71m for him". f**k that, take the hit. There are scores of better keepers than him. We aren't trying to replace a courtois or cech anymore, we're trying to replace someone who fundamentally can't do the job. 

 

 

Edited February 11, 20206 yr by bisright1

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Before his injury he wasn't in his prime at all, sorry to disappoint you but if you think that he was at his prime being only 24-25 years old it would show that you have no real insight of the matter. He won the Golden Glove award 3 times after he was older than 27 years old and Cech actually was our best player of the season, as a keeper, being 29 years old.

Had he been at his best prior to his injury he wouldn't have stayed as our keeper for such a long time after that and he wouldn't have been more in the spotlight.

Cech wasn't the same after the head injury, still a fantastic keeper but better beforehand.