Haven't posted in a while but with lots of Chelsea discussion on the need for a CB and a distinct lack of amazing options, I couldn't help taking a casual look at our defensive woes.  One of the painfully obvious things was the double-marking and slow reaction times of defenders. That's a coaching and communication issue as much as it is a player issue, with Lampard already publically calling out the lack of vocal communication in the team.

Here are some of my thoughts, after reviewing some of the footage from the Bayern game:

The defence needs a marshal
Check out this pic before Lewandowski's first goal:

Christensen is in transition to no-man's land even as Muller receives the ball. With his back to Lewandowski, he has no awareness of where he is, a fact about to be exploited when Lewandowski spots the mistake and checks his run to receive the pass. Zouma moves across quickly to stop Muller from running through on goal, but is forced to check back to jockey Gnabry when he realises Kante isn't there with him.

Christensen now has no idea where Lewandowski is. Out of frame, Reece James spots the danger but can't leave Coutinho in space. Zouma stands his ground to challenge Gnabry, but the triumvirate of Zouma, Christensen and Kante can't work who is doing what, allowing Gnabry a very simple pass to play in Lewandowski.

In fact the next frame is heartbreaking:

Lewandowski almost drifts offside, then checks his run because he thinks Christensen will step forward to challenge Gnabry. Christensen doesn't, instead remaining still and Lewandowski easily remains onside.

We can point blame at each of the three players, but it is clear from their body language that each one of them is cueing to the others, and no one is making a decision or a call.

I'd love to watch some footage or see if there are more examples of this sort of failure from the season. In this instance, a more decisive, commanding presence on the pitch would be a massive benefit, able to coordinate Zouma or Kante.

 

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by SydneyChelsea

I think those pictures highlight the issue with Kante as CDM. He really should be in the space Gnabry occupies but instead he's further up  the field then CHO to begin with leaving Gnabry with way too much space.

No, we need three. Sell Zouma, Christensen and Rudiger they are scrubs. Ok, only Christensen is a scrub, Kurt and Rudi are just straightforward dummies. They don't have the brain to play on such a thoughtful position. CB requires positioning, understanding of the distances, when to stand still when to attack and intercept the ball.  Zouma's early air jumps has cost us so many goals since he's here. Rudiger's stupid high pressing without a chance to intercept has left his zone wide opened so many times. They are talented but without brain you can't play for a top club on this position.

Keep Tomori and give him a chance next season as replacement and for the cups. Buy another 3 CBs. 

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by Droopy

2 hours ago, Droopy said:

No, we need three. Sell Zouma, Christensen and Rudiger they are scrubs. Ok, only Christensen is a scrub, Kurt and Rudi are just straightforward dummies. They don't have the brain to play on such a thoughtful position. CB requires positioning, understanding of the distances, when to stand still when to attack and intercept the ball.  Zouma's early air jumps has cost us so many goals since he's here. Rudiger's stupid high pressing without a chance to intercept has left his zone wide opened so many times. They are talented but without brain you can't play for a top club on this position.

Keep Tomori and give him a chance next season as replacement and for the cups. Buy another 3 CBs. 

I can't think of a team in the history of the game that has bought a whole new defence and succeeded. The closest thing to a success was when Chelsea bought Ferreira and Carvalho in the same window, but even that was argued given the Terry/Gallas partnership. Arsenal seem to try it every 2-3 years and fail miserably. It just doesn't happen, and adding that sort of chaos to a team already struggling with communication is a recipe for disaster.

However, many teams - Liverpool included - have invested in a single quality defender who has marshalled a defence.

Zouma and Rudiger need direction, and I think you're right, they're never going to find it themselves. However they do have redeeming qualities that would see them work well alongside a much more experienced defender.

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by SydneyChelsea

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

I think those pictures highlight the issue with Kante as CDM. He really should be in the space Gnabry occupies but instead he's further up  the field then CHO to begin with leaving Gnabry with way too much space.

Yeah, this was only a highlight video, but at the start Kante himself is also in no man's land, and our entire midfield is cut out by a single pass from their defence.

You need a vocal goalkeeper and a CB with decent leadership qualities to marshal the defence. 

Midfield 3 was as much to blame. They were played around far too easily. 

Emerson ball watching and not in line.

Christiensen in no mans land. 

Standard of defending all season.

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

I think those pictures highlight the issue with Kante as CDM. He really should be in the space Gnabry occupies but instead he's further up  the field then CHO to begin with leaving Gnabry with way too much space.

I'm pretty sure Kova was playing CDM

Neither of them can do it. 

Those pictures are depressing. 

Why are they not talking to each other. Lewandowski is the biggest threat in Europe and Christensen needs to know where he is. If he's not looking then James needs to be telling. Christensen has to be covering him. This is basics. 

Never mind the communication, these players aren't constantly checking their surroundings and are always ball or player watching. Honestly just a quick turn of the head left and right to keep track of where players are will help so much in their decision making.

I think we need to throw a 100 mill at Rice and a decent keeper will be a start, sell Kante, Jorginho to finance it, would love to say finance by selling the deadwood, but who the f**k is going to sign your Bakajoko's, Drinkwaters, and Batmans of this world

I wanted to look at the second goal in a bit more depth. Emerson has been rightly criticised, but it's worse than it looks.

Check out his stance as Kovacic is dispossessed.

Then check out his stance as Perisic - not a hugely pacey player - hits full tilt.

If you can stand it, watch the whole sequence in reverse angle from 0:54. It takes him four seconds to break into a jog. It takes him another six seconds to break into a sprint and return on screen.

It's amateur hour.  He can see his teammate is in trouble and knows he is the last line of defense as Zouma is outnumbered. At the very least, he should make himself available for a quick clearance by the keeper.

Instead he stays still.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by SydneyChelsea

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I can't think of a team in the history of the game that has bought a whole new defence and succeeded. The closest thing to a success was when Chelsea bought Ferreira and Carvalho in the same window, but even that was argued given the Terry/Gallas partnership. Arsenal seem to try it every 2-3 years and fail miserably. It just doesn't happen, and adding that sort of chaos to a team already struggling with communication is a recipe for disaster.

However, many teams - Liverpool included - have invested in a single quality defender who has marshalled a defence.

Zouma and Rudiger need direction, and I think you're right, they're never going to find it themselves. However they do have redeeming qualities that would see them work well alongside a much more experienced defender.

Man City broke all the records in the world with 5 new defenders. 

Christiansen is a 2/5 star player, just a backup his whole career.

Zouma 2.5/5 so far.

Rudiger went from 3.5/5 to 2/5.

We don't have a proper LB, we don't have a proper keeper.

For this window a new LB is an absolute must and idealy we would need to sign a much better CB as well. Without signing a new LB we can't compete.

24 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Man City broke all the records in the world with 5 new defenders. 

If you're talking about 2017-18, they signed 3 fullbacks (Walker, Danilo, Mendy) in the summer and Laporte in the Jan window. Walker was a stalwart, Danilo played regularly but the others didn't register 10 league appearances. They also signed Ederson that window.

It's absolutely clear we need to take a leaf out of that book and sign a LB, CB and a GK. I just don't think three new CBs will help an already struggling team chemistry.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

I'm pretty sure Kova was playing CDM

Neither of them can do it. 

Those pictures are depressing. 

Why are they not talking to each other. Lewandowski is the biggest threat in Europe and Christensen needs to know where he is. If he's not looking then James needs to be telling. Christensen has to be covering him. This is basics. 

Not according to the team sheet he wasn't. Kante has just been playing really high up the pitch since Sarri. 

7 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Not according to the team sheet he wasn't. Kante has just been playing really high up the pitch since Sarri. 

Based on these heatmaps (and also my eyes) it felt like Kovacic was playing the central DM role (poorly I might add) whilst Kante was out to the right as per how he's played for most of the last 2 years.

If Kante was actually supposed to be playing CDM, then he was so atrocious at it and that is something that should never happen again. But I think he was playing the number 8 role and played it relatively okay. 

Just now, bisright1 said:

Based on these heatmaps (and also my eyes) it felt like Kovacic was playing the central DM role (poorly I might add) whilst Kante was out to the right as per how he's played for most of the last 2 years.

If Kante was actually supposed to be playing CDM, then he was so atrocious at it and that is something that should never happen again. But I think he was playing the number 8 role and played it relatively okay. 

Are you sure this wasn't adjusted later on? I turned it off after we went 2-0 down so I have no clue what happened after that. At the start of the game Kante was definitely playing in front of the back 4 and was getting put under pressure very easily. 

3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Based on these heatmaps (and also my eyes) it felt like Kovacic was playing the central DM role (poorly I might add) whilst Kante was out to the right as per how he's played for most of the last 2 years.

If Kante was actually supposed to be playing CDM, then he was so atrocious at it and that is something that should never happen again. But I think he was playing the number 8 role and played it relatively okay. 

We altered Kante's position second half and had him press higher up the pitch

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

I think those pictures highlight the issue with Kante as CDM. He really should be in the space Gnabry occupies but instead he's further up  the field then CHO to begin with leaving Gnabry with way too much space.

Our best player Kovacic was actually playing deeper and he lost possession that led to the second goal of Bayern. He was also invisible against Hull which isn't even in the PL as soon as someone started marking him more tightly and after he got a yellow card at the start of the second half.

Kante played just a handful of games as the deepest midfielder and in one of them he slipped against the 19 year old Martinelli so not even he could prevent us from conceding goals and he made several fouls in a dangerous area right in front of our box this season.

It's a bit too obvious that part from Jorginho and Gilmour we don't really have other midfielders comfortable playing that role solo.

If only Bakayoko had been a good signing, some of our problems wouldn't be such an issue when it comes to midfield defending.

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

 

 

Based on these heatmaps (and also my eyes) it felt like Kovacic was playing the central DM role (poorly I might add) whilst Kante was out to the right as per how he's played for most of the last 2 years.

If Kante was actually supposed to be playing CDM, then he was so atrocious at it and that is something that should never happen again. But I think he was playing the number 8 role and played it relatively okay. 

He was having an absolute mare at the back, likely why Lampard swapped. 

20 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Are you sure this wasn't adjusted later on? I turned it off after we went 2-0 down so I have no clue what happened after that. At the start of the game Kante was definitely playing in front of the back 4 and was getting put under pressure very easily. 

So did I. ? I thought when I was watching that Kova was deeper. 

Either way, neither of them can do that role. 

We need a proper CDM who can protect our Centre Backs. 

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

So did I. ? I thought when I was watching that Kova was deeper. 

Either way, neither of them can do that role. 

We need a proper CDM who can protect our Centre Backs. 

Ughh, who can do that though?? We already need too many players as it is, I can't see us getting a DM aswell tbh. 

As poor as the players themselves appear to be they didn't become donkey's overnight; at the end of the day it comes down to coaching and gelling the back 3/4 together, and unfortunately Frank and Jodie have done a miserable job all season.  The first thing we need is a defensive coach like a Steve Clarke and then go from there.  The game has also changed where teams are trying to play out from the back, wonderful if you have the players with the talent to do so. Any of our back 4 appear to be scared sh*tless if they receive the ball from the keeper. They don't have the confidence to carry the ball and make a forward pass, they are almost immediately put under pressure resulting in poor decision making, playing backwards or sideways thereby applying pressure on the defensive line or the midfield. 

While buying a couple of decent defenders maybe a priority, Frank and his coaching staff need to take a deeper look at their own capabilities in terms of defensive strategies and game management.  

18 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Ughh, who can do that though?? We already need too many players as it is, I can't see us getting a DM aswell tbh. 

Rice? I think we are going to end up signing him, a LB and Onana. 

It could be simply that Frank doesn't grasp the minutae of the skillset needed to perform like JT, his lack of experience is glaring, Cech should know seeing as he played behind  the best for 10yrs
Also Jodie doing well with kids might not transfer to the A squad, something is fundamentally wrong, maybe an experienced addition to the backroom team, Give uncle Harry a Call....