Just now, dkw said:

Tuchel replaced Lampard to get Champions league, that's a certainty and the reason Roman jumped. If he doesn't get Champions League qualification then he gets sacked.

No chance.

He'll get an extension this summer even if we end in fifth.

The only sensible thing to do as well.

36 minutes ago, Sindre said:

No chance.

He'll get an extension this summer even if we end in fifth.

The only sensible thing to do as well.

Haha now now we all know Roman is more eccentric than sensible, he invested billions in to a football club with no chance of a financial return and only did it for the love of the game. Eccentric not sensible.

41 minutes ago, dkw said:

Tuchel replaced Lampard to get Champions league, that's a certainty and the reason Roman jumped. If he doesn't get Champions League qualification then he gets sacked.

Sounds about right to me.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Haha now now we all know Roman is more eccentric than sensible, he invested billions in to a football club with no chance of a financial return and only did it for the love of the game. Eccentric not sensible.

He's not stupid.
There is no better manager we could possibly get and Tuchel have laid the foundations for success already. With a squad that isn't his, no pre-season with his team, only been here a short amount of time and have done tremendously well.

He won't be sacked.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

He's not stupid.
There is no better manager we could possibly get and Tuchel have laid the foundations for success already. With a squad that isn't his, no pre-season with his team, only been here a short amount of time and have done tremendously well.

He won't be sacked.

He has indeed IF we qualify for the CL.

While he did have a preseason Frank also had a squad who was not his last season and made the CL. That is the minimum bar I believe TT was set.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

He has indeed IF we qualify for the CL.

While he did have a preseason Frank also had a squad who was not his last season and made the CL. That is the minimum bar I believe TT was set.

But didn't start the season in 9th with 18 games left.

Big difference.

 

 

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

But didn't start the season in 9th with 18 games left.

Big difference.

 

 

It is, as is the different levels of expierence. One a manager of a year in the championship. Another multiple years at top clubs and contending for the CL.

From when Tuchel took over in February until today May 17th.   Fighting for top4 with everything in our hands. Losing the FA cup final and making the CL league final.  I would have taken these scenarios everyday and twice on Sunday.  TT has done a great job overall. 

52 minutes ago, Sindre said:

He's not stupid.
There is no better manager we could possibly get and Tuchel have laid the foundations for success already. With a squad that isn't his, no pre-season with his team, only been here a short amount of time and have done tremendously well.

He won't be sacked.

Furthermore above everything else is if Roman is waiting on deciding medium/long term plans on what could end up being one kick of a football then I will be seriously worried going forward.

We wouldn't have had the success we've had under him if he was THAT impulsive.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Furthermore above everything else is if Roman is waiting on deciding medium/long term plans on what could end up being one kick of a football then I will be seriously worried going forward.

We wouldn't have had the success we've had under him if he was THAT impulsive.

1 miskick of the ball by JT cost Avram Grant his job.

1 well taken kick by Drogba kept RDM in his for a few more months than he would have had.

There is form to it.

15 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

1 miskick of the ball by JT cost Avram Grant his job.

1 well taken kick by Drogba kept RDM in his for a few more months than he would have had.

There is form to it.

Is there any evidence of that with Avram? Nothing of that ilk came from any good source IIRC, happy to be proved wrong.

As for Robbie, he wasn't in the long term plans for Roman by pretty much every account of people even relitevely close to the club hence the sacking at the first excuse. Had Pep accepted the job that summer he was gone regardless of Munich.

26 minutes ago, Argo said:

Is there any evidence of that with Avram? Nothing of that ilk came from any good source IIRC, happy to be proved wrong.

As for Robbie, he wasn't in the long term plans for Roman by pretty much every account of people even relitevely close to the club hence the sacking at the first excuse. Had Pep accepted the job that summer he was gone regardless of Munich.

True but it wasn't really at the first possible excuse though, we couldn't make it past the group stage in the CL which was a pretty serious blow to that squad.

50 minutes ago, Argo said:

Is there any evidence of that with Avram? Nothing of that ilk came from any good source IIRC, happy to be proved wrong.

As for Robbie, he wasn't in the long term plans for Roman by pretty much every account of people even relitevely close to the club hence the sacking at the first excuse. Had Pep accepted the job that summer he was gone regardless of Munich.

Do you need evidence? At that time he would have been our first CL winning manager? Do you think we sack our first CL winning manager? Do me a favour we are not Real Madrid and the evidence is in Robbie later on.

You cannot sack a manager who wins the CL, what kind of message would that send?

If he loses the CL final and we don’t get in CL next season he’s no better than AG and should get the bullet. Fair enough SFL was terminated for the potential of not hitting the owners requirements. TT has fixed the defence but not the attack. He doesn’t deserve an extension if we are not in the CL next season. 

I hope not to get proven right on this (ie we do make the CL, rendering the discussion moot) but the idea that Tuchel will get sacked if we don’t make the CL is nonsense . This is some radical shifting of goalposts. Think about it for a second. If I told you back when TT was appointed that we would come 5th and reach the CL final, who would have said he’d be sacked? 
 

By saying TT gets sacked now if we don’t qualify for CL, the implication is that reaching the CL final counts for nothing. Zilch. That if we had gone out in the second round to Atletico, TT’s chance of staying would be the same as getting to the final. I promise you that is not how Roman and the board will see things. Roman is ruthless but he’s very far from stupid. He’ll recognise that reaching the CL final is a massive achievement. 
 

TT will be here at the start of next season whether people like it or not. 5th place (from 9th) and pro rata probably second or third + CL final are more than enough to secure that. again, I hope we never find out. 

Edited May 17, 20215 yr by Dean

4 hours ago, Argo said:

The last time we failed in all our objectives but the season was still a relative success despite that was Jose's first season back and he kept his job. 

Hiddink first time round was appointed to recover the title and despite the fact he "failed" at that we were desperate to keep him (before we knew if he would deliver the FA Cup or not).

Theoretically at the time of TT appointment us having title winning form and still missing out on top 4 was technically possible and getting past Leti was a long shot let alone getting to the final. We were massively up against it at that point with the volume of teams infront of us, even Arsenal clawed above us at that point to put it into context.

If he doesn't kick on next season all bets are off but I am absolutely certain he's in no danger this summer.

Jose in his return "transistional" season and Hiddink in his first caretaker stint, both got us over the line for the next season's CL places. Hiddink polished that further by also winning the FA Cup.

Argo, I want Tommy to stay. Like any manager he has his flaws and his favourites, but personally I like him. However, the momentum swing in the last two games could not have come at a worst time for him. After getting us into pole position, to let that slip at the death would be a disaster. He has to achieve a CL place next season. Hopefully, we can take a big step towards that tomorrow night and also get some revenge on Leicester.

21 minutes ago, Dean said:

By saying TT gets sacked now if we don’t qualify for CL, the implication is that reaching the CL final counts for nothing. Zilch. That if we had gone out in the second round to Atletico, TT’s chance of staying would be the same as getting to the final. I promise you that is not how Roman and the board will see things. Roman is ruthless but he’s very far from stupid. He’ll recognise that reaching the CL final is a massive achievement. 
 

TT will be here at the start of next season whether people like it or not. 5th place (from 9th) and pro rata probably second or third + CL final are more than enough to secure that. again, I hope we never find out.

Getting to the CL final means piss all if you lose it, ask Avram Grant. Just like getting to the FA cup final means nothing since we lost it.

I sooner would have had Liverpool knock us out last season and Luton this season than lose the finals because again, for me as a fan, losing a final is no better than going out in the first round, in fact I would sooner lose in the first round, far less painful.

Frank had us still in the Fa cup and topped our CL group, meant naff all to Roman the potential to win either and he sacked him as, most importantly to him, our top 4 hopes were falling away. So he brought in an expierenced hand to steady the ship and make sure we get top 4 and the money that comes with it. Failure to get that money is huge for the club which is why the entertained the super league in the first place.

6 minutes ago, just said:

Jose in his return "transistional" season and Hiddink in his first caretaker stint, both got us over the line for the next season's CL places. Hiddink polished that further by also winning the FA Cup.

Argo, I want Tommy to stay. Like any manager he has his flaws and his favourites, but personally I like him. However, the momentum swing in the last two games could not have come at a worst time for him. After getting us into pole position, to let that slip at the death would be a disaster. He has to achieve a CL place next season. Hopefully, we can take a big step towards that tomorrow night and also get some revenge on Leicester.

I feel the same way as just does here. I certainly want him to do enough to at least make top 4 and, of course, somehow stop the City juggernaut and win the CL. However it would, as just said, be a disaster if we miss out on the CL and that is why Roman sacked Frank. He did not sack him so his successor could just fail anyway with no consequences.

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Getting to the CL final means piss all if you lose it, ask Avram Grant. Just like getting to the FA cup final means nothing since we lost it.

I sooner would have had Liverpool knock us out last season and Luton this season than lose the finals because again, for me as a fan, losing a final is no better than going out in the first round, in fact I would sooner lose in the first round, far less painful.

Frank had us still in the Fa cup and topped our CL group, meant naff all to Roman the potential to win either and he sacked him as, most importantly to him, our top 4 hopes were falling away. So he brought in an expierenced hand to steady the ship and make sure we get top 4 and the money that comes with it. Failure to get that money is huge for the club which is why the entertained the super league in the first place.

That first comment is just absurd. Do you honestly think that? Getting to the final of the CL is massive. Surely you recognise the achievement? Surely you derived some pleasure out of watching us beating Real in the semis? Are you honestly saying it’s meaningless? If that’s what you think, why even bother watching those games? 

27 minutes ago, Dean said:

I hope not to get proven right on this (ie we do make the CL, rendering the discussion moot) but the idea that Tuchel will get sacked if we don’t make the CL is nonsense . This is some radical shifting of goalposts. Think about it for a second. If I told you back when TT was appointed that we would come 5th and reach the CL final, who would have said he’d be sacked? 
 

By saying TT gets sacked now if we don’t qualify for CL, the implication is that reaching the CL final counts for nothing. Zilch. That if we had gone out in the second round to Atletico, TT’s chance of staying would be the same as getting to the final. I promise you that is not how Roman and the board will see things. Roman is ruthless but he’s very far from stupid. He’ll recognise that reaching the CL final is a massive achievement. 
 

TT will be here at the start of next season whether people like it or not. 5th place (from 9th) and pro rata probably second or third + CL final are more than enough to secure that. again, I hope we never find out. 

Dean............ Tottenham got to a Champions League final. Tottenham. Two years ago.

Again I'm on your side. I want Tommy here next season. But anyone who states, unequivocally, that TT is GUARANTEED to be here next season if we end up with Thursday nights in the Europa League is either bonkers or hasn't been paying attention to how Roman operates.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I feel the same way as just does here. I certainly want him to do enough to at least make top 4 and, of course, somehow stop the City juggernaut and win the CL. However it would, as just said, be a disaster if we miss out on the CL and that is why Roman sacked Frank. He did not sack him so his successor could just fail anyway with no consequences.

You know at some point we need to stop sacking managers as soon as they fail. Nobody has a 100% success track record and Tuchel definitely did little miracles for us considering that he has no time for anything big.

1 minute ago, just said:

Dean............ Tottenham got to a Champions League final. Tottenham. Two years ago.

Again I'm on your side. I want Tommy here next season. But anyone who states, unequivocally, that TT is GUARANTEED to be here next season if we end up with Thursday nights in the Europa League is either bonkers or hasn't been paying attention to how Roman operates.

Just. I see where you are coming from. And I have paid close attention to how Roman operates over the years. But i think it’s a little more nuanced than how it’s often portrayed. He’s ruthless but he’s not daft. I think he knows a good trend when he sees one and knows not to throw away a decent hand when there may be no better one available.

 In other words, I think Roman will want Tommy to stay basically for the same reason that you do: he’s a rational guy, who sees the potential and improvements that TT has made. He’ll have seen enough to at least give him a full season.
 

The fact Tommy has come in midway through the season and would have taken us from 9th to 5th (I hope better!) is a massive mitigating circumstance. I think Roman, for all his ruthlessness, would grant some leeway based on that. If we were to finish 5th after a full season and lose a CL final, then sure - Tommy would get the sack. Almost certainly.

There’s a qualitative element to it too and this is where the Grant situation differed. Grant never really looked like a keeper, if we’re honest. I bet you didn’t want Grant to stay, Just. I didn’t. Roman saw that too. I’ve said elsewhere in the forum: while Roman is utterly ruthless, he’s usually right. The one scandalous sacking was Ancelotti. All the others were probably the correct decision. They made sense. Getting rid of Grant made sense. Getting rid of Tommy now would just make zero sense.

1 hour ago, Dean said:

That first comment is just absurd. Do you honestly think that? Getting to the final of the CL is massive. Surely you recognise the achievement? Surely you derived some pleasure out of watching us beating Real in the semis? Are you honestly saying it’s meaningless? If that’s what you think, why even bother watching those games? 

Is it absurd? Do you still look back with fond memories Dean about us beating Liverpool in the semi final in 2008 or is your main memory from that campaign the devastation of JT slipping on his ar$e? I know which mine was, I still remember moving arms up to celebrate as surely JT would not let us down, only to end up face first in to my bed letting out a scream.

Yes I did enjoy watching us beat Real, and Atletico, and Sevilla et al. I also really enjoyed finally doing Liverpool at that time but it became pointless once Anelka saw his effort saved. It was not possible for that joy before to surpass that disappointment and pain.

I remember far more fondly those amazing games against Ronaldinhos Barca, and Ballacks Bayern. 4 fantastic games, games to be proud of, and memories enjoyed all the more because we lost out in a semifinal rather than being so close yet so far away in the final. For me the joy of those games long surpassed the pain of Garcia and his "goal".

I enjoyed us knocking City out in the Fa cup this year, and United the year before. Both of those long fading to memory now.

I respect how you feel about it as an achievement, it is just not how I process it as a fan. Hopefully the above explains that.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

You know at some point we need to stop sacking managers as soon as they fail. Nobody has a 100% success track record and Tuchel definitely did little miracles for us considering that he has no time for anything big.

We have been saying that for years Gol, but Roman's success cannot be argued with.

I'll be very2 surprised if we sack Tuchel if we miss on ucl unless there is some manager that we really like that is available. 

I think he has done enough to be here for at least one more season.