1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

People saying we have no patterns of play ... we somehow seem to have created the second highest number of big chances so far this season (57) behind only Newcastle. 

10 more than Arsenal and Spurs, 7 more than Villa, and 2 more than even Liverpool and Man City.

Problem is our forwards are (still) crap, so we are not finishing enough of them. It was a clear mistake to go into the season with Jackson, Broja and Washington as our strike force, and with raw wingers (Mudryk, Madueke) as well to compound that. Losing both our #10s to injury has not helped either (Nkunku Chukwuemeka)

We also get very little goal contribution from midfield or defence, which puts even more pressure on the forwards to deliver.

It's a fair point but if you watch you'll see its a familiar pattern. We play for 20 minutes and are allowed possession. The opposition then get organised, our passing drops to 70% sideways or negative passing and we become progressively worse.

When I talk about pattern and structure I want to know how we manage our way through a whole game, adapting to the opposition, increasing intensity, increasing off ball movement to lock the opposition in to making errors. This for me should be a relentless tactic not fleeting 5 minute bursts.

My biggest criticism with poch is his set pieces defense. It is horrendous. We definitely need a set pieces coach. 

But other than nothing major. I want him to be braver but after Wolves game, not sure what to say. We played 4222, a very attacking system, we got many good chances and we still couldn't score. I think he need to bring more lemon 😂😂😂

 

 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

It's a fair point but if you watch you'll see its a familiar pattern. We play for 20 minutes and are allowed possession. The opposition then get organised, our passing drops to 70% sideways or negative passing and we become progressively worse.

When I talk about pattern and structure I want to know how we manage our way through a whole game, adapting to the opposition, increasing intensity, increasing off ball movement to lock the opposition in to making errors. This for me should be a relentless tactic not fleeting 5 minute bursts.

We can’t manage games because the majority of the team haven’t played to together and lack experience. What you see is a team who doesn’t have the experience to kill games off without scoring 2 or 3 goals more. The pattern of play is there else we wouldn’t be creating chances it’s the inexperience that’s killing the team and embarrassing decision making.

Take Poch out and out on Pep he would have the exact same issue and demand a completely new team bar Palmer and Nkunku and a few more.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

My biggest criticism with poch is his set pieces defense. It is horrendous. We definitely need a set pieces coach. 

But other than nothing major. I want him to be braver but after Wolves game, not sure what to say. We played 4222, a very attacking system, we got many good chances and we still couldn't score. I think he need to bring more lemon 😂😂😂

 

 

 

Watch us off the ball @Bob stark. Look at the lack of desire in coordinating pressing. Look at the lack of movement off the ball when in possession.  The amount of players caught on their heels, waiting for a pass rather than creating opportunities by their runs.

Yes we create many chances but we will by creating overloads throughout the open spaces and by occasional one touch passes from midfielders. But when we get to the business end of the pitch watch us get stifled. We have nobody who can shoot with accuracy from distance and we have no multiple movements off the ball to create choices for the deliverers. So we just keep punching in balls with little success rates.

4 minutes ago, El regreso said:

We can’t manage games because the majority of the team haven’t played to together and lack experience. What you see is a team who doesn’t have the experience to kill games off without scoring 2 or 3 goals more. The pattern of play is there else we wouldn’t be creating chances it’s the inexperience that’s killing the team and embarrassing decision making.

Take Poch out and out on Pep he would have the exact same issue and demand a completely new team bar Palmer and Nkunku and a few more.

Valid to a certain point, but isn't this a challenge to every managerial appointment.  He still had pre season and has had the team for six months. What about Emery, Dyche, and numerous others that pretty rapidly d4aw together a structure. I am not talking about top four flowing football. Not yet, but six months in there should be a discernible blueprint in operation and some measures and standards in place regardless of personnel 

23 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Valid to a certain point, but isn't this a challenge to every managerial appointment.  He still had pre season and has had the team for six months. What about Emery, Dyche, and numerous others that pretty rapidly d4aw together a structure. I am not talking about top four flowing football. Not yet, but six months in there should be a discernible blueprint in operation and some measures and standards in place regardless of personnel 

There is a blueprint you can see especially against the big teams the problem Poch has is he can’t control the decision making of players especially in crucial positions in games it’s killing the entire team. Had one of the most experienced players yesterday took a different decision we would be having a completely different conversation but no he decided to not pass for a tap in. This has been happening all season long just plain stupid decision making mind boggling decisions 😡😡
It’s simple decision like that turn a game on its head, this has been happening before Poch, Tuchel complain about this,  Potter had the same problem now Poch so it begs the question why three completely different managers have had the exact same problem?

He hasn’t got the credit with this club or players yet to take harsh decisions which is why he’s being diplomatic because had it been Pep/Conte/Jose Sterling is getting hooked and benched.

I remember Tuchel doing it to CHO at Southampton because of stupid decision making hooked him immediately.

14 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Post the Jay gif at least 

I’m not tech savvy enough to learn how to post gif’s 

Why is it only us that can’t get a run of matches? 

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by Sconnie Blue

27 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Why is it only us that can’t get a run of matches? 

They have an experience squad that’s been together longer than us and know each other, I keep saying this his but that’s under appreciated by some fans here because we have been so blessed with seasoned experienced players in the past.

You go into a business get rid of all the experience staff within a year a bring in staff just finish college or university and see how you complete with experience staff in that industry. 

 

19 minutes ago, El regreso said:

They have an experience squad that’s been together longer than us and know each other, I keep saying this his but that’s under appreciated by some fans here because we have been so blessed with seasoned experienced players in the past.

You go into a business get rid of all the experience staff within a year a bring in staff just finish college or university and see how you complete with experience staff in that industry. 

 

We bought in experience though didn't we? Koulibaly, Aubameyang, Sterling. Also Nkunku and Disasi this season, not under 18s there. 2 have left already, 2 have underwhelmed, the other been out injured till now and has a poor injury record.

 

So who is the right experience for us to sign?

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Watch us off the ball @Bob stark. Look at the lack of desire in coordinating pressing. Look at the lack of movement off the ball when in possession.  The amount of players caught on their heels, waiting for a pass rather than creating opportunities by their runs.

Yes we create many chances but we will by creating overloads throughout the open spaces and by occasional one touch passes from midfielders. But when we get to the business end of the pitch watch us get stifled. We have nobody who can shoot with accuracy from distance and we have no multiple movements off the ball to create choices for the deliverers. So we just keep punching in balls with little success rates.

The pressing was fine. Wolves game was our 3rd game last week. The off the ball movement was also fine. 

What is our problem? Nobody can score, it is that simple. N unlike under TT there is no Chilwell/James to bail us out

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by Bob stark

44 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

We bought in experience though didn't we? Koulibaly, Aubameyang, Sterling. Also Nkunku and Disasi this season, not under 18s there. 2 have left already, 2 have underwhelmed, the other been out injured till now and has a poor injury record.

 

So who is the right experience for us to sign?

Bloated squad. 
Injuries. 
Lack of experience. 
Experienced players are sh*t. 
Squad hasnt been together for long. 
 

There’s a lot of things that are certainly true, but to be 6 months in (with a preseason) and still have virtually no style of play + no improvement of players is very concerning. Going to be interesting to see how we fair in what should yet again be an easy fixture list. If Wolves is any indication, then Deja vu from the start of the season. 

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by Sconnie Blue

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Bloated squad. 
Injuries. 
Lack of experience. 
Experienced players are sh*t. 
Squad hasnt been together for long. 
 

There’s a lot of things that are certainly true, but to be 6 months in (with a preseason) and still have virtually no style of play + no improvement of players is very concerning. Going to be interesting to see how we fair in what should yet again be an easy fixture list. If Wolves is any indication, then Deja vu from the start of the season. 

It's getting difficult to adopt a style of play when key players keep getting injured constantly. We get Nkunku back and look what happens, Reece and Enzo are out for god knows how long. We can't sustain this nonsense. 

1 minute ago, Victor90 said:

It's getting difficult to adopt a style of play when key players keep getting injured constantly. We get Nkunku back and look what happens, Reece and Enzo are out for god knows how long. We can't sustain this nonsense. 

Shouldn’t a manager adapt though? Feels like Poch couldn’t sustain anything without either Carney or Nkunku. We were still poor as a team even with James and Enzo playing. 
 

This isn’t even considering the miss use of some players. 
 

 

46 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

We bought in experience though didn't we? Koulibaly, Aubameyang, Sterling. Also Nkunku and Disasi this season, not under 18s there. 2 have left already, 2 have underwhelmed, the other been out injured till now and has a poor injury record.

 

So who is the right experience for us to sign?

It is not experience. We need better attacker. It is that simple. 

 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

Shouldn’t a manager adapt though? Feels like Poch couldn’t sustain anything without either Carney or Nkunku. We were still poor as a team even with James and Enzo playing. 
 

This isn’t even considering the miss use of some players. 
 

 

Arsenal lost the title last year when Saliba went down. 

Just one player and the whole thing collapse. 

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Shouldn’t a manager adapt though? Feels like Poch couldn’t sustain anything without either Carney or Nkunku. We were still poor as a team even with James and Enzo playing. 
 

This isn’t even considering the miss use of some players. 
 

 

That's what he's been doing though, when injuries have happened there has been a change to the system. 

He did initially start with 3 at the back when we had no defensive cover in the midfield, I understood it even though I hated it. 

You've got an argument about the misuse of some players, but I don't think it's as simple as that. No matter what happens, we'll never challenge for anything if can't get rid of the elephant in the room here. We all know what it is, it's this injury record that's been looming around for the past 3-4 years. 

18 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Bloated squad. 
Injuries. 
Lack of experience. 
Experienced players are sh*t. 
Squad hasnt been together for long. 
 

There’s a lot of things that are certainly true, but to be 6 months in (with a preseason) and still have virtually no style of play + no improvement of players is very concerning. Going to be interesting to see how we fair in what should yet again be an easy fixture list. If Wolves is any indication, then Deja vu from the start of the season. 

Having a bloated squad should be useful to cover injuries though no?

We lacked experience, but yet had experience that were not good enough or deemed not good enough.

squad not being together long is not helped by 4 managers in 18 months.

 

Palace and fulham at home, 2 London derbys, plus Luton away in between. Tough games, winnable if we show the right effort and desire.

I am hoping we start showing some professional pride.

8 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Arsenal lost the title last year when Saliba went down. 

Just one player and the whole thing collapse. 

And without Jesus during that hectic period. Collapse is also a funny term to use. They played 14 and won 9 without Saliba.
 

If that’s collapse what’s our situation? 
 

11 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

That's what he's been doing though, when injuries have happened there has been a change to the system. 

He did initially start with 3 at the back when we had no defensive cover in the midfield, I understood it even though I hated it. 

You've got an argument about the misuse of some players, but I don't think it's as simple as that. No matter what happens, we'll never challenge for anything if can't get rid of the elephant in the room here. We all know what it is, it's this injury record that's been looming around for the past 3-4 years. 

For me, it seemed like he’s completely lost his bottle the moment Nkunku went down. No plan B or ability to adapt that leads to anything sustainable or a style of play. He went from saying we should challenge for the league in August to now saying this is the new Chelsea. 

I said coaching was going to be crucial during this period and so far we are going backwards again. 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

The pressing was fine. Wolves game was our 3rd game last week. The off the ball movement was also fine. 

What is our problem? Nobody can score, it is that simple. N unlike under TT there is no Chilwell/James to bail us out

 

 

 

No, it wasn't.  For the commentators to even pick up on it means it was so bloody obvious. 

If it was just about us not being able to score the game would have ended 0-0. So Jo Bob, you're wrong, our pressing was not fine. Our work off the ball remains half arsed

Wolves game you can analyze all you can and why not..

Fact is we didn't use the chances we very well created. Also, Wolves have done brilliantly home. They have an experienced PL side with a lot of clever players. City lost there 2-1.

We don't have any experienced, clever players. Zero. In attack that is. Silva is all that but his role is pretty insignificant when we control the ball. 

Sterling tried to win a penalty which is something a clever player does. He at least tried it. 

Anyway, a prime 15 games in the season Nkunku probably scored 2 in the first half. 

 

The squad was not assembled to build a winning team it was done for investment.

Thats a different goal to winning matches leading to trophies hopefully. 

Poch has shown nothing with the squad, lampard neither but he had no pre season, Potter worst win ratio for donkeys . I don’t reckon any coach could get this squad playing to our collective expectations- there’s too many players in it, the players are mostly inexperienced with vastly differing skill levels, there’s too much rotation, too much poor discipline, too many injuries and a lack of recovering players to a basic level of fitness, not enough game time for most of them to build any on field rapport or understanding.
Clearfake will need to move on more players and bring in experienced heads in key positions and find a better coach - but that would be admitting failure so don’t hold your breath. 

The idea that Clearlake are buying players for investments is ridiculous. No one would spend 1 bil not wanting to win trophies. It's okay to say they f**ked up in the way they went about their transfer business especially in the first year because they were over ambitious and wanted wanted to innovate the league, but the idea that is some business scheme is simply conspiracy theory and tinfoil 

8 hours ago, El regreso said:

You go into a business get rid of all the experience staff within a year a bring in staff just finish college or university and see how you complete with experience staff in that industry. 

Exactly. But also strange a financial guru like Todd who should know the value of experience in organisational structure fluffed his lines so bad and did his managers dirty like that. 

It's basically as amateurish as you can be for someone that's a Business Leader.

Simply football foolish.

Edited December 25, 20232 yr by abister1

25 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

The idea that Clearlake are buying players for investments is ridiculous. No one would spend 1 bil not wanting to win trophies. It's okay to say they f**ked up in the way they went about their transfer business especially in the first year because they were over ambitious and wanted wanted to innovate the league, but the idea that is some business scheme is simply conspiracy theory and tinfoil 

Personally, I agree with you but there is an argument to say they haven't f**ked up yet, consider:

Chelsea 2017 - 6/7 year gap no EPL
Manure 2013 - 10/11 year gap no EPL
Arsenal 2004 - 19/20 year gap no EPL
Pool 2020  - 30 year gap since EPL

You could say it's still early for us... and if (seems like a big if atm) in the next 2/3 years it turns around and we're coming close to winning the EPL again... Clearlake might think they got it right. What they've done is very American, come in and changed everything and it's all gone tits up... now they're sorting through the rubble and hopefully putting things right.