4 hours ago, timetowaste said:

I do wonder if other teams' fans hate their squads as much as you lot hate ours, absolutely insane.

Hate? Where has somebody said that they hate any of our players.

This is a modern day thing that I can't get my head around. As soon anybody has a comment that isn't 100% positive it's being referred to as hate. That's totally illogical to me. There are so many things that I don't like, it doesn't mean by definition I hate them.

I don't even think the comment being referred was anything other than a rational opinion.

12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Hate? Where has somebody said that they hate any of our players.

This is a modern day thing that I can't get my head around. As soon anybody has a comment that isn't 100% positive it's being referred to as hate. That's totally illogical to me. There are so many things that I don't like, it doesn't mean by definition I hate them.

I don't even think the comment being referred was anything other than a rational opinion.

It is more than clear there is an overexuberant annoyance of how we are run, which is fine but then you of all people go on and claim United and Arsenal are doing better business than us. 

United have just spent £100m on a ST who couldn't score more than 12 goals in the shambles that is Serie A and an 18 year old CB with only 1 full season under his belt. They also want Ugarte who PSG are looking like they gladly want to get rid. Then there is Arsenal who despite many wanted Calafiori, he too doesn't have much experience in the bank. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It is more than clear there is an overexuberant annoyance of how we are run, which is fine but then you of all people go on and claim United and Arsenal are doing better business than us. 

United have just spent £100m on a ST who couldn't score more than 12 goals in the shambles that is Serie A and an 18 year old CB with only 1 full season under his belt. They also want Ugarte who PSG are looking like they gladly want to get rid. Then there is Arsenal who despite many wanted Calafiori, he too doesn't have much experience in the bank. 

 

 

Sorry, I am not sure if you have selected the correct quote to respond to Sconnie. I have questioned the use of the word hate against our players. I am saying that it seems to be a modern phrase to use, possibly from the social media applications, but I don't think anybody on here hates our players, even these youngsters being bought.

I have raised concerns about the assumption that 18 yo kids from South America are deemed better than our own academy graduates but I am still not hating any of these kids. Quite the opposite in fact. I am desperate for Santos to be a great success for us just to prove this model has merit.

You are right that I don't like the way Clearlake are running us because of what I believe to be their underlying motivation. But again this is not referencing hating the squad. Far from it.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by WhiteWall

3 hours ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Bit of an odd comment. I'm stating I don't think we'll be able to sell these players for more than we bought them - nothing to do with hating anyone. You're seeing things that aren't there.

Exactly, you've written off about 20 players who mostly aren't even over 22 years old based off of 12-18 months. This whole pre-season has mostly been people on here slagging off or taking the piss out  of our own players and club in general, it's become quite insufferable tbh.

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Hate? Where has somebody said that they hate any of our players.

This is a modern day thing that I can't get my head around. As soon anybody has a comment that isn't 100% positive it's being referred to as hate. That's totally illogical to me. There are so many things that I don't like, it doesn't mean by definition I hate them.

I don't even think the comment being referred was anything other than a rational opinion.

You've taken the word hate too literally so don't worry about that.

Of course anyone can have their own opinion on the matter, but the players we have are all really young and have been bought as part of a project that we're hoping will bare fruit in the next few years rather than after a few months, it's something people can't seem to be able to grasp. So calling it an "absolute and utter shambles" at this point is just daft and just something that's irritated to me. Maybe people should just wait and see how the season pans out with the players we keep and how the players we've loaned out develop. 

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

part of a project

You should be banned for using that word or any other hoary cliche like process or journey.

Edited July 22, 20241 yr by bluehaze

15 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

You should be banned for using that word or any other hoary cliche like process or journey.

Trust the process mate

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Exactly, you've written off about 20 players who mostly aren't even over 22 years old based off of 12-18 months. This whole pre-season has mostly been people on here slagging off or taking the piss out  of our own players and club in general, it's become quite insufferable tbh.

Ah okay - 12-18 months isn't enough time to assess whether a player might be good enough, got it. What's the timeframe when we'll have permission from you to assess a player then? Let us know and maybe we can put a big message up on the forum with a countdown clock showing when we're allowed to share our opinion!

1 hour ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Ah okay - 12-18 months isn't enough time to assess whether a player might be good enough, got it. What's the timeframe when we'll have permission from you to assess a player then? Let us know and maybe we can put a big message up on the forum with a countdown clock showing when we're allowed to share our opinion!

Well in Ugochukwu's case probably a little bit longer than the 567 minutes he's been on the field for us so far.

6 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Well in Ugochukwu's case probably a little bit longer than the 567 minutes he's been on the field for us so far.

One thing's for sure - with on 567 minutes in 12 month's his value certainly won't have increased beyond the ~£25m we paid. Thanks for proving my point. 👍👍👍

2 hours ago, Gordon Bennett said:

One thing's for sure - with on 567 minutes in 12 month's his value certainly won't have increased beyond the ~£25m we paid. Thanks for proving my point. 👍👍👍

Again, he's 20 years old and not to mention he spent most of it injured (like a lot of our players). Basically the point I'm making is a lot of these players we've signed are players we hope will develop over years rather than months. If that fails to materialise then I'll be on the Clearlake are donkeys bandwagon with you, but I can't justify writing off the young players we've bought because they're absolutely nowhere near their primes. The fact that a lot of them haven't added to their value as of now is, for me, irrelevant. 

Edited July 23, 20241 yr by timetowaste

14 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Exactly, you've written off about 20 players who mostly aren't even over 22 years old based off of 12-18 months. This whole pre-season has mostly been people on here slagging off or taking the piss out  of our own players and club in general, it's become quite insufferable tbh.

It's pathetic isn't it, this forum and the f**kwits on social media get closer and closer every day. The whining, moaning, crying, bitching about every single thing, player, coach, owners....

I always expected the fallout would be incredible if we ever lost our sugar daddy and had to be run like an actual business, but even I didn't think it would he this embarrassing. 

There is still some excellent, sensible discussion on here thankfully, but it's getting harder and harder to find in amongst the manchildren losing there sh*t at everything and anything.

17 minutes ago, dkw said:

There is still some excellent, sensible discussion on here thankfully

While personally I quite enjoy the odd cleansing bout of violent diarrhoea, I feel that the constipation lobby have made some elucidating points and of course I fully support their right to express them. 

18 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

While personally I quite enjoy the odd cleansing bout of violent diarrhoea, I feel that the constipation lobby have made some elucidating points and of course I fully support their right to express them. 

I'm aware of the "free the pooh movement" and the current verbal jousting with their opposition "stuff you". I'm just worried it will all spill over...so to speak.

1 hour ago, timetowaste said:

Again, he's 20 years old and not to mention he spent most of it injured (like a lot of our players). Basically the point I'm making is a lot of these players we've signed are players we hope will develop over years rather than months. If that fails to materialise then I'll be on the Clearlake are donkeys bandwagon with you, but I can't justify writing off the young players we've bought because they're absolutely nowhere near their primes. The fact that a lot of them haven't added to their value as of now is, for me, irrelevant. 

If we had an enormous amount of money and there were no real consequences to buying all these wildcards I would probably be with you despite not being a fan of stockpiling expensive youngsters in general.

But when there are real consequences to this, like we see now with the club trying to push Chalobah out in a disgraceful manner (And Gallagher will likely be pushed out in a similar way) it becomes a disgraceful thing to me. Because ultimately we are pushing club lads (and club legends like Neil Bath) out to pursue this strategy and I am glad there are strong reactions to that.
For the last couple of years before Clearlake we used to have 6-8 Cobham lads in the squad and that was something we could be proud of and something that built a connection to the fans. Chalobah scoring on his debut v Crystal Palace after Tuchel gave him a chance for example, fantastic memory and the Bridge was as optimistic and positive as never before.

For this season we'll almost certainly be down to 2 and by the time Clearlake are through with their strategy i'll wager it will be 0.

15 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

If we had an enormous amount of money and there were no real consequences to buying all these wildcards I would probably be with you despite not being a fan of stockpiling expensive youngsters in general.

But when there are real consequences to this, like we see now with the club trying to push Chalobah out in a disgraceful manner (And Gallagher will likely be pushed out in a similar way) it becomes a disgraceful thing to me. Because ultimately we are pushing club lads (and club legends like Neil Bath) out to pursue this strategy and I am glad there are strong reactions to that.
For the last couple of years before Clearlake we used to have 6-8 Cobham lads in the squad and that was something we could be proud of and something that built a connection to the fans. Chalobah scoring on his debut v Crystal Palace after Tuchel gave him a chance for example, fantastic memory and the Bridge was as optimistic and positive as never before.

For this season we'll almost certainly be down to 2 and by the time Clearlake are through with their strategy i'll wager it will be 0.

His goal and "celebration" was such an amazing moment. You could see how much it meant to him.

17 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Sorry, I am not sure if you have selected the correct quote to respond to Sconnie. I have questioned the use of the word hate against our players. I am saying that it seems to be a modern phrase to use, possibly from the social media applications, but I don't think anybody on here hates our players, even these youngsters being bought.

I have raised concerns about the assumption that 18 yo kids from South America are deemed better than our own academy graduates but I am still not hating any of these kids. Quite the opposite in fact. I am desperate for Santos to be a great success for us just to prove this model has merit.

You are right that I don't like the way Clearlake are running us because of what I believe to be their underlying motivation. But again this is not referencing hating the squad. Far from it.

The PL model is purely about money. If anyone thinks for instance that KSE at Arsenal, The Glazers at Utd , FSE at Liverpool and yes Clearlake at Chelsea are in it for the same sort of reasons that RA was in it for then sorry they are naive in the extreme.

FFP , PSR or whatever acronym is todays  fad will ultimately lead to owners particularly those of the investor type taking huge sums out of football. Squad cost restrictions will inevitably lead to excess cash .
RA ironically introduced a model akin to that being operated by Bohley and Co yet that seems to be ok. RA invested huge sums buying youngsters yet that all seems to be forgotten. Players from English academies such as De silva brothers, players like Ake or what about these lot bought in as under 20 year olds and in 2010-2012 had all left the club most permanently 

Stoch, Manciene, Rajovic, Delac, Kakuta, Borini, Kalas, Piazon, Davila, Bamford, Omeruo, & Van Arnholt.

I get it why some think it was far better under RA some ( not many admittedly) think Chelsea was lost once RA shipped up 

I am not an advocate of the investor type of model in football but the simple fact is that you have to comply with the relevant authorities be it the likes of HMRC and the soon to be appointed regulator of the governing bodies such at The PL, FA, UEFA and FIFA. If you by pass regulation it will catch up with you and what is absolutely clear in all this is that under RA ( we have self reported ) Chelsea FC wasn’t operating in accord with set down rules.

 

 

Edited July 23, 20241 yr by terraloon

43 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

If we had an enormous amount of money and there were no real consequences to buying all these wildcards I would probably be with you despite not being a fan of stockpiling expensive youngsters in general.

But when there are real consequences to this, like we see now with the club trying to push Chalobah out in a disgraceful manner (And Gallagher will likely be pushed out in a similar way) it becomes a disgraceful thing to me. Because ultimately we are pushing club lads (and club legends like Neil Bath) out to pursue this strategy and I am glad there are strong reactions to that.
For the last couple of years before Clearlake we used to have 6-8 Cobham lads in the squad and that was something we could be proud of and something that built a connection to the fans. Chalobah scoring on his debut v Crystal Palace after Tuchel gave him a chance for example, fantastic memory and the Bridge was as optimistic and positive as never before.

For this season we'll almost certainly be down to 2 and by the time Clearlake are through with their strategy i'll wager it will be 0.

I am interested to know which of the academy players we have sold since the new owners shipped up  you would say have done well since leaving. Then perhaps you could look at say the last 3 years under RA and list players from the academy who clearly have been a mistake 

 

@terraloon I don't think its about who has done well at other clubs as transfers can affect a player, its about how they did for us and what we've replaced them with. 

Sold CHO for £3m and somehow downgraded with our £63m Ukrainian. 

RLC was an ideal squad player and was sold for half of what we paid for Ugochukwu. The irony is he'd be perfect right now for what we'll be using KDH for. 

Chalobah is better than Disasi and Badiashile, yet is being forced out of the club. 

Just a bit weird really. 

3 minutes ago, terraloon said:

I am interested to know which of the academy players we have sold since the new owners shipped up  you would say have done well since leaving. Then perhaps you could look at say the last 3 years under RA and list players from the academy who clearly have been a mistake 

There's plenty of players who's done well at their new clubs. Lotus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, Maatsen, Ampadu* and while Mount had his season destroyed there is no doubt in my mind that our 2 time POTY will do well at United once he gets fit. And there is no doubt in my mind that Chalobah and Gallagher will do very well for their new clubs as well.

*We sold him for a fifth of Lesley and he was on the team of the season in EFL last season. (He's better than Lesley)

In any event it's almost a bit besides the point though. My main gripe with this is that I don't think this premeditated draining of club lads is good for us. Not all of the beforementioned players would be in the XI (though many would have an argument, CHO looks better than Mudryk for example and we sold him for a tenth) but ultimately I think most see where this is going and in the end there will be 0 club lads left in the side. And for me that would be sad and disappointing.

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Again, he's 20 years old and not to mention he spent most of it injured (like a lot of our players). Basically the point I'm making is a lot of these players we've signed are players we hope will develop over years rather than months. If that fails to materialise then I'll be on the Clearlake are donkeys bandwagon with you, but I can't justify writing off the young players we've bought because they're absolutely nowhere near their primes. The fact that a lot of them haven't added to their value as of now is, for me, irrelevant. 

Fair play. My point being there's no evidence that this has worked or will work. Given that Clearlake have lurched from one strategy to another, from one style of manager to another without any consistency doesn't give me confidence in them at all. I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with that.

There are so many instances which go against the "buying players for profit" argument - whether it's the initial strategy of buying established players, like Sterling, on massive wages (he won't make us a profit), to buying up and coming players like Andrey Santos, Casadei, or Ugochukwu (failed loans, pointlessly recalled or injured - no profit here), to buying mega money players like Enzo, Caicedo or Mudryk (none will be sold for more than purchased, if sold then likely to be at a loss).

I'm totally supportive of all the players and hope they do brilliantly for us. But in terms of having confidence in Clearlake's strategy I'll need to start seeing some evidence for rather than overwhelming evidence against ☺️

1 hour ago, dkw said:

It's pathetic isn't it, this forum and the f**kwits on social media get closer and closer every day. The whining, moaning, crying, bitching about every single thing, player, coach, owners....

I always expected the fallout would be incredible if we ever lost our sugar daddy and had to be run like an actual business, but even I didn't think it would he this embarrassing. 

There is still some excellent, sensible discussion on here thankfully, but it's getting harder and harder to find in amongst the manchildren losing there sh*t at everything and anything.

You're taking it to the next level - you're actually moaning, bitching and crying about other people moaning, bitching and crying. 😂

2 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

You're taking it to the next level - you're actually moaning, bitching and crying about other people moaning, bitching and crying. 😂

And also the same guy that was a proud and insufferable moaner for years before Clearlake sacked Tuchel 🤣

Someone should buy him a mirror!

3 hours ago, OriginalS said:

There's plenty of players who's done well at their new clubs. Lotus Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, Maatsen, Ampadu* and while Mount had his season destroyed there is no doubt in my mind that our 2 time POTY will do well at United once he gets fit. And there is no doubt in my mind that Chalobah and Gallagher will do very well for their new clubs as well.

*We sold him for a fifth of Lesley and he was on the team of the season in EFL last season. (He's better than Lesley)

In any event it's almost a bit besides the point though. My main gripe with this is that I don't think this premeditated draining of club lads is good for us. Not all of the beforementioned players would be in the XI (though many would have an argument, CHO looks better than Mudryk for example and we sold him for a tenth) but ultimately I think most see where this is going and in the end there will be 0 club lads left in the side. And for me that would be sad and disappointing.

Loftus Cheek is doing well in a league which clearly suits him it is less physically demanding that’s for sure. CHO did well last season but the evidence had been up to that point that he was not going to progress. Mattesen I will wait till I say too much about. Ampadu is doing well at Leeds in the EFLhe really didn’t pull up any trees at PL level. Mount should do well but it’s beyond doubt that on Redcafe he isn’t rated at all.

But my request  wasn’t just asking you to at the players sold under Clearlake but to reflect on the last 3 years of RAs tenure to try and get perspective.

T

Call me crazy but I am personally happy that RLC is succeeding in Italy and doing well for a competitive Milan side vs staying here as a bench option getting injured every other week.