12 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I'd rather toil against Brentford and beat PSG, than have an exciting 4-2 win and then get spanked when we play anyone decent.

Can we not try and have both? How about a crazy approach where we beat Brentford 2-0 playing nicely and then beat someone decent 1-0 while playing well?

12 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

And we do have 8 points from 4. The way people talk about our league form is if we are putting up mid table numbers.

Well, we have been playing bottom and mid table opposition.

16 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

And I'd rather James and Cucu didn't play 90 minutes based on the fact we need them more in other games. So better they come on in the second half than go off injured after 60 and we give Hato and Fofana minutes.

Or start with at least one of them to give us a chance of winning, then take them off at some point and bring in in the just recently injured player or the brand new player to the team? Its more risky throwing the players hes "protecting" in to a highly pressured situation where we are chasing the game.

17 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I mean Liverpool relied on a brain fart to beat a newly promoted side. City were playing a sh*t United 24 hours later than we were at home.

Arsenal played well sure, but are playing Bilbao in the week, not Bayern.

Like I said, just hand waving to allow Maresaca all manner of ridiculous excuses. How about we were playing a team with their best players missing and a brand new very inexperienced manager? One who still managed to get the better of our coach, especially in the first half.

Also just making up scenarios now to suit is ridiculous.

15 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Yes id probably have started Acheampong, but I can totally imagine him playing as average as Fofana did.

22 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Entertaining football didn't lead to us looking like we could beat any decent side. That's the issue.

I'd rather toil against Brentford and beat PSG, than have an exciting 4-2 win and then get spanked when we play anyone decent.

And we do have 8 points from 4. The way people talk about our league form is if we are putting up mid table numbers.

We will comfortably be in the top 4 this year.

OK. We've yet to play anyone decent. We are certainly putting in mid-table performances with teams in mid-table. We are so lacklustre in the first 45 mins of every game so far. Here's a stat to check, and it is a concerning one... every team we've played in the league this season has scored first against us, I include the Fulham and Palace games in that and we are greatful for VAR having blue-tinted specs.

Edit: suggests that Maresca isnt getting the starting 11 right at all and the set up is wrong.

Edit Edit: Only one winger has scored for us this season. Neto against West Ham. (Palmer isnt played as a winger for us)

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by bluelightening

1 hour ago, bluelightening said:

OK. We've yet to play anyone decent. We are certainly putting in mid-table performances with teams in mid-table. We are so lacklustre in the first 45 mins of every game so far. Here's a stat to check, and it is a concerning one... every team we've played in the league this season has scored first against us, I include the Fulham and Palace games in that and we are greatful for VAR having blue-tinted specs.

Edit: suggests that Maresca isnt getting the starting 11 right at all and the set up is wrong.

Edit Edit: Only one winger has scored for us this season. Neto against West Ham. (Palmer isnt played as a winger for us)

Good shout on the conceding first point - hadnt clocked that.

One thing is for sure, we have not come out of the gates flying and started well in any of our games so far. Even West Ham were doing better than us in the opening 10 mins.

Maresca seems unable to get the players in the right mindset before a game.

4 hours ago, The Boehly Babes said:

Honest question here but does anyone actually like us anymore?

I don’t like Maresca at all, I don’t like Eghbali, I don’t like Winstanley & Stewart, I hate the way we do business, I find our pushing of CFC LDN nothing but cringe, there’s no JT, Lamps, Hazard in the squad to ‘Love’ aside from RJ.

Do have to say this iteration of Chels is the least connected I’ve ever felt in my 30 years.

A lot of us have been saying this for some time now - certainly us older supporters.

Hated last season until the last month where Maresca managed to redeem himself and we somehow finished top 4 and won the Conference. Then we had THAT great final performance v PSG, lifted the trophy and with the new signings, there was reason for optimism and I was actually looking forward to it. The spirit in the camp seemed very good too.

But we seem to have reverted to type. Maresca is tinkering with the side, yet Enzo plays regardless. Lad on loan from Brighton straight in. Defence looks all over the place. We seem back to relying heavily on Cole Palmer. But as others have said, we could drop down the table, get knocked out the CL and I still don't think Maresca will be in danger - we are stuck with him for the foreseeable. Seriously hope he improves things and the style of football and soon as otherwise we are in for another poor & dull season.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

I mean Liverpool relied on a brain fart to beat a newly promoted side. City were playing a sh*t United 24 hours later than we were at home.

Arsenal played well sure, but are playing Bilbao in the week, not Bayern.

And we were missing a lot more players than anyone else, thankfully temporarily in some cases. Yes id probably have started Acheampong, but I can totally imagine him playing as average as Fofana did. Whilst Chalobah and Tosin are right now our starting CBs.

And I'd rather James and Cucu didn't play 90 minutes based on the fact we need them more in other games. So better they come on in the second half than go off injured after 60 and we give Hato and Fofana minutes.

I think the biggest issue is most of our fans haven't realised this is how all the top teams play now against sides like Brentford. It's sideways football until you get the break.

I'm excited to see how we do against Bayern because the foundations built by Maresca over the last 12 months mean we can compete against the best in the world - i.e. a team who doesn't just sit back in a block of 8.

It would be nice to see some more positivity around here. But until we are the best in the world no one's going to be happy.

I haven't checked but Arsenal possibly have more players out then us at the moment? Though I'll grant you they have significantly upgraded their squad options over the summer. And, in the case of Madueke, it looks to be at our expense so far.

I think, and it not just a function of this forum, supporters can voice an opinion on team selection, the manager, data, finances etc etc

Its all fine and dandy but we cant affect any of this, sure we can demonstrate how knowledgeable we are but thats all.

Im not wild about Maresca he is learning his trade experimenting with our team.

I dont like the rigidity of our buying department young potentially profitable players blah blah blah.

I couldnt give a toss about Clearlake spending a fortune on good bad or ugly players.

Im here for the matchday squad through thick and thin.

If we get by hook or by crook, top four every year and a title (Premier League and or Champions League) every ten years i'll settle for that.

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by OneTommyLangley

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Or start with at least one of them to give us a chance of winning, then take them off at some point and bring in in the just recently injured player or the brand new player to the team? Its more risky throwing the players hes "protecting" in to a highly pressured situation where we are chasing the game.

Like I said, just hand waving to allow Maresaca all manner of ridiculous excuses. How about we were playing a team with their best players missing and a brand new very inexperienced manager? One who still managed to get the better of our coach, especially in the first half.

Also just making up scenarios now to suit is ridiculous.

Maybe, that's not the decision id have made. James definitely couldn't start for sure and if he did and got injured this place would have erupted. "Why the f**k was Maresca starting James when we've got Bayern this week and he's just played 180 minutes for England"

And I can genuinely imagine a scenario where Acheampong is just as iffy at right back as Fofana in that game. In which case he'd be criticised again for not playing James.

I'm not saying Maresca makes all the right decisions. I'm saying that people are so determined to see everything he does as wrong that they imagine the alternative solution was definitely the right one. Even when it has every chance of also being wrong.

I thought the team selection was fine at the time, it was good enough to beat Brentford considering what we brought off the bench, gave some of the squad who we're around in the week minutes, and would have kept our best players ready for the bigger game of the week against Bayern. We drew, it happens, the team f**ked up at the end. Some of that is on Maresca, some on James, some on Garnacho. We also came back from 1 nil down at half time to be great in the second half and should have won 3-1. But that's not on Maresca, because the good stuff is never on the manager, it's always the individual players.

We've played a few teams who we struggle against, come out without a loss, and have some big games coming up in the CL. I'm feeling positive. I like to remain positive.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable and positive had Delap not been injured.

Right now, I'm just taking it game by game praying no one gets injured and Maresca doesn't do his best bozo the clown impression.

1 hour ago, bluelightening said:

OK. We've yet to play anyone decent. We are certainly putting in mid-table performances with teams in mid-table. We are so lacklustre in the first 45 mins of every game so far. Here's a stat to check, and it is a concerning one... every team we've played in the league this season has scored first against us, I include the Fulham and Palace games in that and we are greatful for VAR having blue-tinted specs.

Edit: suggests that Maresca isnt getting the starting 11 right at all and the set up is wrong.

Edit Edit: Only one winger has scored for us this season. Neto against West Ham. (Palmer isnt played as a winger for us)

1 hour ago, Snedger said:

Can we not try and have both? How about a crazy approach where we beat Brentford 2-0 playing nicely and then beat someone decent 1-0 while playing well?

Well, we have been playing bottom and mid table opposition.

Last year we got 6 points in the same fixtures. The year before 7. This year we've got 8.

So forgive me if I'm not panicking about our results against these teams just yet.

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by bisright1

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Or start with at least one of them to give us a chance of winning, then take them off at some point and bring in in the just recently injured player or the brand new player to the team? Its more risky throwing the players hes "protecting" in to a highly pressured situation where we are chasing the game.

I honestly don’t understand you wouldn’t want to do it like this.

If you have 2 equally strong players for every position then maybe, as much as I dislike Arsenal they have a very strong squad now. What we did on Saturday clearly weakened our starting 11 dramatically and anyone who thinks any different must seeing a completely different set of squad players to me.

To me what Maresca did is literally the worst of both worlds, putting more pressure on squad players to hit the ground running and then putting pressure on our best players to instantly deliver in the remaining minutes of a match.

For me what Maresca did on Saturday can’t be defended, it cost us 2 points against a weak team in a very winnable match.

We should be 2nd right now but that mis-management has dropped us down to 5th.

We haven’t got the quality of squad to mess about with line ups the weekend before Champions League matches.

That tactic potentially makes at least 8 Premier League matches this season unnecessarily harder than they should be.

1 hour ago, 2211 said:

I honestly don’t understand you wouldn’t want to do it like this.

If you have 2 equally strong players for every position then maybe, as much as I dislike Arsenal they have a very strong squad now. What we did on Saturday clearly weakened our starting 11 dramatically and anyone who thinks any different must seeing a completely different set of squad players to me.

To me what Maresca did is literally the worst of both worlds, putting more pressure on squad players to hit the ground running and then putting pressure on our best players to instantly deliver in the remaining minutes of a match.

For me what Maresca did on Saturday can’t be defended, it cost us 2 points against a weak team in a very winnable match.

We should be 2nd right now but that mis-management has dropped us down to 5th.

We haven’t got the quality of squad to mess about with line ups the weekend before Champions League matches.

That tactic potentially makes at least 8 Premier League matches this season unnecessarily harder than they should be.

If James started on Saturday and got injured so couldn't play against Bayern. What would you have thought then?

If we can't play Fofana and Hato against Brentford, giving James and Cucu fresher legs against Bayern, when do we play them?

The worst of all worlds isn't what Maresca did on Saturday. It's if he did what you all wish he'd done in hindsight and we had still drawn the game.

18 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

If James started on Saturday and got injured so couldn't play against Bayern. What would you have thought then?

If we can't play Fofana and Hato against Brentford, giving James and Cucu fresher legs against Bayern, when do we play them?

The worst of all worlds isn't what Maresca did on Saturday. It's if he did what you all wish he'd done in hindsight and we had still drawn the game.

youre correct about James but wrong about Forfana, Josh or Gusto should have been picked, if he wanted to play Forfana he should have played him in his correct position, as for Hato, the left side was weak, playing Gittens didnt help

£ land Pep over complicates simple things in the game he’s such an idiot.

6 minutes ago, Caps_Lock_King said:

youre correct about James but wrong about Forfana, Josh or Gusto should have been picked, if he wanted to play Forfana he should have played him in his correct position, as for Hato, the left side was weak, playing Gittens didnt help

I have to assume gusto had a knock and it wasn't mentioned.

If the sack is what people want i think we are going to have to wait a long time, for what its worth i think he is closer to an extended contract rather than the sack.

Look at the facts (as seen by Clearlake)

He always at least tries to incorporate their new purchases into the squad - if it works weve got a new squad member if not Clearlake can go into selling mode. (God help us when they have shifted all the sub standard players, i suspect they will then start on the good ones.)

Even when he says he wants a defender in to cover for Colwill, and gets nothing he just gets on with it.

Hes delivered trophies (one very lucrative) and got us into the equally lucrative Champions League.

If he does eventually get sacked they will likely recruit another of his type, certainly not Tuchel or Poch types - far too outspoken for Clearlake.

8 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

That doesn’t change anything - and it still comes back to 1 of the 2 options I have given. 1 of those statements has to be true - there is zero other alternatives

As a reminder:

• Either Maresca is telling them to play in a slow manner

  or

• Maresca is telling them to play quickly. They don’t play quickly. But he still selects them.

One of those 2 things is happening. I suspect the first.

In your argument - if the players are unable to do what he is telling them to do, then either a) stop selecting them or b) ask them to do something different.

Well, I strongly disagree with your options and the logic presented.
There is a 3rd option, which is what I pointed out: he tells the players to play quicker, but players are unable to accomplish that for a number of reasons. Football would be very easy and cheap if all the manager had to do is tell the players to do something and they would just do it.

Playing quicker football demands greater skill on the ball, faster thinking, and the precision to make no mistakes.

Playing quicker is the hardest thing in football and literally why the top players are the top players. Even the first touch has to be better for quicker football. PSG's Vitinha is an amazing midfielder because he ticks at a very high tempo without missing a beat. Iniesta was like that before. Now you can ask Bakayoko all you want, but he will always play slow as a snail because that's his limit.

On top of that we had not one, but 2 young players getting shy and vanishing, which they do from time to time. Was the rotation necessary? why the club does not have experienced senior players in the roster? That's the question for me.

Anyway, that's now I see the game. We will likely have to agree to disagree on this one. For me, it will make zero difference if Maresca is replaced and I think he's doing a good job given the still low expectations and the squad in question.

5 minutes ago, acaeus said:

Well, I strongly disagree with your options and the logic presented.
There is a 3rd option, which is what I pointed out: he tells the players to play quicker, but players are unable to accomplish that for a number of reasons. Football would be very easy and cheap if all the manager had to do is tell the players to do something and they would just do it.

Playing quicker football demands greater skill on the ball, faster thinking, and the precision to make no mistakes.

Playing quicker is the hardest thing in football and literally why the top players are the top players. Even the first touch has to be better for quicker football. PSG's Vitinha is an amazing midfielder because he ticks at a very high tempo without missing a beat. Iniesta was like that before. Now you can ask Bakayoko all you want, but he will always play slow as a snail because that's his limit.

On top of that we had not one, but 2 young players getting shy and vanishing, which they do from time to time. Was the rotation necessary? why the club does not have experienced senior players in the roster? That's the question for me.

Anyway, that's now I see the game. We will likely have to agree to disagree on this one. For me, it will make zero difference if Maresca is replaced and I think he's doing a good job given the still low expectations and the squad in question.

So he keeps picking players who don't play how he asks....... hence, back to my first 2 options.

Just now, nonotnowjim said:

So he keeps picking players who don't play how he asks....... hence, back to my first 2 options.

Yeah, Vitinha and Kvara weren't available, so it was Gittens and bunamonte. 😅

Joking aside, the players who he knows can execute, who can play at the highest level, are 11-13 players tops (fewer now w/o Delap and Colwill), so Maresca (and likely the club) decided to keep them fresh for Bayern. These young players need to play anyway even if they vanish from time to time. It is my opinion that chelsea is doing too much of that, but that's a diff discussion.

I too question the rotation done, but don't think that's all on Marcesca. CK tests may have ruled out players, for ex.

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by acaeus

i just wish he would STOP picking George - HE IS NOT A STRIKER

15 minutes ago, acaeus said:

Yeah, Vitinha and Kvara weren't available, so it was Gittens and bunamonte. 😅

Joking aside, the players who he knows can execute, who can play at the highest level, are 11-13 players tops (fewer now w/o Delap and Colwill), so Maresca (and likely the club) decided to keep them fresh for Bayern. These young players need to play anyway even if they vanish from time to time. It is my opinion that chelsea is doing too much of that, but that's a diff discussion.

I too question the rotation done, but don't think that's all on Marcesca. CK tests may have ruled out players, for ex.

This argument only holds true, if we see evidence that the first teamers (the 11-13 you allude to) play fast progressive football when they do play.

Unfortunately your argument falls apart, given that we have consistently seen for over 1 season, and certainly in every game this season, the same slow, sideways, unprogressive football time and time again. Regardless of the players he selects.

On the basis of the evidence available, it would seem like Maresca instructs the players to play this way. The players look bored stiff most of the time....still remember Palmers comments after the Conference league final (something about had enough of the sideways/backwards football - and took it upon himself to break away from it and change the game).

3 minutes ago, Caps_Lock_King said:

i just wish he would STOP picking George - HE IS NOT A STRIKER

He is not a very good winger, and an even worse striker.

Poor lad is being hung out to dry by the manager.

He should be getting starts as a winger in the Carabao cup, and for short periods subbed in when games are already won - to give him development exposure in his actual position. Not set up to fail by Maresca.

5 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Entertaining football didn't lead to us looking like we could beat any decent side. That's the issue.

I'd rather toil against Brentford and beat PSG, than have an exciting 4-2 win and then get spanked when we play anyone decent.

And we do have 8 points from 4. The way people talk about our league form is if we are putting up mid table numbers.

We will comfortably be in the top 4 this year.

We couldn't beat any of the decent sides playing Maresca's brand of football either though. When we beat PSG, we didn't play like we normally would. We were exploiting PSG's defence constantly, we were playing one touch quick passing, and then playing it over their defence for Neto, Palmer and Pedro to run onto. The Conference League final was Palmer ignoring Maresca. The game we won against Liverpool, they were on the beach.

We lost to Newcastle, Villa and Brighton with Maresca's style of football, but beat those same teams earlier in the season when we were playing more exciting football.

Not every game needs to be the same, there is a place for Maresca's slower brand of football, it can be especially useful when we are winning by a couple of goals, but we shouldn't be playing that way against the likes of Bretford or any team that will sit deep against us. We should be taking the game to these sides much quicker and with more intent to score. It doesn't matter if the average age of this team is 23 or 27, it won't compete for much at all if Maresca insists on playing this brand of football in every game.

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by Scott Harris

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

This argument only holds true, if we see evidence that the first teamers (the 11-13 you allude to) play fast progressive football when they do play.

Unfortunately your argument falls apart, given that we have consistently seen for over 1 season, and certainly in every game this season, the same slow, sideways, unprogressive football time and time again. Regardless of the players he selects.

On the basis of the evidence available, it would seem like Maresca instructs the players to play this way. The players look bored stiff most of the time....still remember Palmers comments after the Conference league final (something about had enough of the sideways/backwards football - and took it upon himself to break away from it and change the game).

Fair. Now we are verging into something I do not feel strongly about. I don't know if Maresca is the answer as the manager to lead us back to (important) silverware.

I don't think we play progressive atm, but our last big/massive silverware was by a very pragmatic team that pressed high and relentlessly. To your point, maybe that style is inherently short-lived unsustainable due to the hardships imposed to players.

A bit off topic, but I'm very jealous of liverpool regarding Szoboszlai who's still 24. :/ Lucky bastards! He a player capable of making a team play better football IMO.

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by acaeus
the right word :)

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

If James started on Saturday and got injured so couldn't play against Bayern. What would you have thought then?

If we can't play Fofana and Hato against Brentford, giving James and Cucu fresher legs against Bayern, when do we play them?

The worst of all worlds isn't what Maresca did on Saturday. It's if he did what you all wish he'd done in hindsight and we had still drawn the game.

1 - he didn’t get injured though, he came on anyway, and he could of been left out against Brentford and got injured in the early minutes against Bayern so I don’t really understand your point.

2 - we have Lincoln City in the League Cup next week , surely that’s a better, gentler introduction to English football for Hato, and probably a better comeback match for Fofana too - making that amount of changes was just wrong and disrespectful.

3 - I’m convinced if we started with the team that finished the match the outcome would have been different, can you honestly say with a straight face the team that started the 1st half and the team that finished the 2nd half are similar in ability and talent

Edited September 15, 2025Sep 15 by 2211