2 minutes ago, El regreso said:

If has fixed the defence and the attack wasn’t scoring it would be the same argument the opposite way:”Why isn’t he fixing our attack we can’t score”

Actually you can see a lot of that argument today too regarding low block.

Dammed if he does dammed if he doesn’t!!

The defense isn't fixed though. Very similar problem, the biggest improvement has been turnover, that is because we have Sancho instead of Mudyrk. 

 

24 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

The defense isn't fixed though. Very similar problem, the biggest improvement has been turnover, that is because we have Sancho instead of Mudyrk. 

 

I didn’t say he fixed it that’s my point you can’t fix everything at once you have to focus on one area address it make sure the players understand then move to the next area.

Trying to fix everything at once results in nothing getting fixed.

He is doing one thing at a time and not trying to fix all our problems at once. 
 

The positive thing here is we create multiple clear cut chances and yesterday of it wasn’t for their keeper turning into prince Cech we win that match.

40 minutes ago, El regreso said:

I didn’t say he fixed it that’s my point you can’t fix everything at once you have to focus on one area address it make sure the players understand then move to the next area.

Trying to fix everything at once results in nothing getting fixed.

He is doing one thing at a time and not trying to fix all our problems at once. 
 

The positive thing here is we create multiple clear cut chances and yesterday of it wasn’t for their keeper turning into prince Cech we win that match.

While I agree with you that we can't fix everything at the same time, one thing that can and should be done at the same time as improving our attack is to work on set pieces, attacking and defending them. For that reason we have a set pieces coach and they should be working on improving this aspect since day one. 

I've not seen any stats to support this claim, but I think our defending is worse than last season and that's saying something. But we're missing a player like Silva that makes a big difference. 

It'll take time, but I was hoping to see a bit more progress in our defensive shape and organisation than this, have to iron these cracks out because we can't always score our way out of trouble every game. 

I agree with @El regreso....he needs time to address all the areas and to iron out the kinks. 

I and many others were surprised the second 11 are playing the same system as the first soo quickly as we saw in the ecl match. We can see he's been working on getting the subs to seamlessly swap when there's injuries or tired legs, and the second 11 dealing with the ecl/cup/etc...to increase rotation, to again reduce injuries, etc.

There's only 24hrs in a day and only a few training sessions a week inbetween games. 

So I'm guessing he took those last 3 months to get the system ingrained in the players. Which as many have already said it isn't a bad start at all, Maresca is doing really well so far.

I also guess he knows this is an issue as he mentioned the difference between us and man city and arsenal for example*. How long the manager has been there, how long the manager has had to work with his players.

*(And slot just "slotted" in to place as the system was already there, he's just "tweaking/personalising" slowly with time)

Something like tweaking the defence or even set pieces (which I personally believe is one of the priorities. No idea where it is in the managers priority list, i don't work there) will also take a fk load of time to learn and not something that can be covered in a training session or 2 unfortunately. Those two issues in particular can take months and even years as the players grow and learn, especially as they come to terms with "learning" the dark arts too. (I doubt he has even started on that as you can see the frustration from our lot during the Notts Forest match). Like Maresca said, there is no time frame, they will continue learning and tweaking the longer they are together.

 

This is something we as fans are really not used to. We bought the "best" players and the "best" managers to win during Romans era. Chelsea isn't that club any more. 

We threw away the book and started from scratch with very young talented kids (and a relatively young manager) with tons of potential (most of them) to be a TEAM for years to come. To grow and learn together to one day being at the top and staying near there every following season. That takes time and patience, from the ppl at the club to us crazy supporters.

Edited October 7, 20241 yr by Simplymo

7 hours ago, El regreso said:

If he fixed the defence and the attack wasn’t scoring it would be the same argument the opposite way:”Why isn’t he fixing our attack we can’t score”

Actually you can see a lot of that argument today too regarding low block.

Dammed if he does dammed if he doesn’t!!

You could argue he has somewhat fixed it relative to last season. 

We're currently on course to concede around 20 goals less.

Will be interesting to see how we defend, and attack, set pieces come the games near the end of the season, and our new set pieces coach has had that time to work with the players.

30 minutes ago, Argo said:

You could argue he has somewhat fixed it relative to last season. 

We're currently on course to concede around 20 goals less.

We are still facing a sh*t ton of shots per match though. I honestly think Fofana is the odd man out in our backline defensively. Colwill and Caicedo are constantly covering for his f**k ups. 

Really hoping Tosin imposes himself well against Liverpool. 

Edited October 7, 20241 yr by Sconnie Blue

14 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We are still facing a sh*t ton of shots per match though. I honestly think Fofana is the odd man out in our backline defensively. Colwill and Caicedo are constantly covering for his f**k ups. 

Really hoping Tosin imposes himself well against Liverpool. 

I do agree there's A LOT of room for improvement.

What I do like however is there's been two times this season we looked all at sea in the first half (Wolves, Brighton) and at half time Maresca changed something and we were barely troubled in the next half.

I also think Palace and West Ham were good defensive games aswell. I'd argue City was too all things considered.

There's something there to build on for me.

Edited October 7, 20241 yr by Argo

44 minutes ago, Argo said:

You could argue he has somewhat fixed it relative to last season. 

We're currently on course to concede around 20 goals less.

Most of last season we did have Petrovic as the keeper though. Personally think he was below average and we would have let in less with Sanchez.

8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We are still facing a sh*t ton of shots per match though. I honestly think Fofana is the odd man out in our backline defensively. Colwill and Caicedo are constantly covering for his f**k ups. 

Really hoping Tosin imposes himself well against Liverpool. 

5.57 on average per game, in fact. For context, here's our company: we're conceding similar amounts of shots on target to relegation fodder and the underachievers




By contrast, last season saw Man City (2.79) and Arsenal (2.11) concede less than 3 per game, to give you an idea of where we need to improve to.

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

5.57 on average per game, in fact. For context, here's our company: we're conceding similar amounts of shots on target to relegation fodder and the underachievers




By contrast, last season saw Man City (2.79) and Arsenal (2.11) concede less than 3 per game, to give you an idea of where we need to improve to.

This is an eye opener...we definitely need to do better.

That's a big difference between us and the top 2.

First 7 league games under poch, we conceded 4. Under Maresca we've conceded 9. We have socred considerably more under Maresca 16 - 7 under poch. 

swings and roundabouts and I'd argue we're still seeing Poch's Chaos ball... or whatever it was called as we're doing what we were doing end of last season. Defensively we're worse off than last year. Is that Silva or tactics. 

 

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

5.57 on average per game, in fact. For context, here's our company: we're conceding similar amounts of shots on target to relegation fodder and the underachievers




By contrast, last season saw Man City (2.79) and Arsenal (2.11) concede less than 3 per game, to give you an idea of where we need to improve to.

Figured as much. Eye test doesn’t lie. 

Losing far too many duels. 

8 hours ago, bluetrooper said:

First 7 league games under poch, we conceded 4. Under Maresca we've conceded 9. We have socred considerably more under Maresca 16 - 7 under poch. 

swings and roundabouts and I'd argue we're still seeing Poch's Chaos ball... or whatever it was called as we're doing what we were doing end of last season. Defensively we're worse off than last year. Is that Silva or tactics. 

 

Hey? We conceded 4 in the first 2 under Poch.

And in the corresponding fixtures we've had so far this season we shipped 13 (not to mention 6 less points).

22 minutes ago, Argo said:

Hey? We conceded 4 in the first 2 under Poch.

And in the corresponding fixtures we've had so far this season we shipped 13 (not to mention 6 less points).

Forgives me, was looking at the wrong end of the football fixture list... I think. Trying to make sense of the post... hands up

1 hour ago, bluetrooper said:

Forgives me, was looking at the wrong end of the football fixture list... I think. Trying to make sense of the post... hands up

Either way, the point pretty much stands. Our defence is sh*t and is showing no signs of improving. If anything, the way we defend set pieces is worse than ever. I can't understand these situations where 3 or 4 opposition attackers break free from our defenders at the back post (our biggest weakness last season) as often as they do. 

On 06/10/2024 at 11:14, Scott Harris said:

That was just an off day for Liverpool. We have already failed to beat a side that played similar tactics to Forest this season. It's more of a Chelsea problem than a problem for the top teams. We always struggle to beat these teams.

So were Wolves another off day for Liverpool then? What about Palace? Those were two games officiating granted Liverpool a win despite poor performances, and the scousers will be the first to tell you they were sh*t. 

What about Arsenal struggling against Brighton and Leicester? Or them only beating Saints because of the suicide football they played, similar to when you downplayed our win against Brighton? 

What about City struggling against Fulham, Neswcastle, and Brentford? 

 

These aren't even the clubs we should be paying attention to. These are clubs aiming for the league title and they are also struggling every other match. We should only be focusing on Top 4 and we are on course to do so and yet we are moaning about the clubs above us?

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Either way, the point pretty much stands. Our defence is sh*t and is showing no signs of improving. If anything, the way we defend set pieces is worse than ever. I can't understand these situations where 3 or 4 opposition attackers break free from our defenders at the back post (our biggest weakness last season) as often as they do. 

it is a bit of a sh*t show, thats actually something i did and do credit petrovic for. we looked less shakey, but perhaps outscoring and playing the oppo is what this enzo ball is about. we've had a decent start and besides the defence its been quite a ride. 

31 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

So were Wolves another off day for Liverpool then? What about Palace? Those were two games officiating granted Liverpool a win despite poor performances, and the scousers will be the first to tell you they were sh*t. 

What about Arsenal struggling against Brighton and Leicester? Or them only beating Saints because of the suicide football they played, similar to when you downplayed our win against Brighton? 

What about City struggling against Fulham, Neswcastle, and Brentford? 

 

These aren't even the clubs we should be paying attention to. These are clubs aiming for the league title and they are also struggling every other match. We should only be focusing on Top 4 and we are on course to do so and yet we are moaning about the clubs above us?

My point was more about us struggling to beat teams like Forest rather than what other teams around us are doing. We regularly fail to get the result against teams that play a low block and I think it's almost always because of how we approach these games. Forest going down to 10 men changed nothing because of how bad we are against these types of teams. 

Also, I didn't play down our win against Brighton. I praised our attack, but thought that off the ball we were really poor, and when you look at how the game went, how can that be argued against? I also said we had better control in the 2nd half. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

So were Wolves another off day for Liverpool then? What about Palace? Those were two games officiating granted Liverpool a win despite poor performances, and the scousers will be the first to tell you they were sh*t. 

What about Arsenal struggling against Brighton and Leicester? Or them only beating Saints because of the suicide football they played, similar to when you downplayed our win against Brighton? 

What about City struggling against Fulham, Neswcastle, and Brentford? 

 

These aren't even the clubs we should be paying attention to. These are clubs aiming for the league title and they are also struggling every other match. We should only be focusing on Top 4 and we are on course to do so and yet we are moaning about the clubs above us?

This is why I think we have a chance of the title ... all the clubs above us are worse than they were last season ! 

57 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

This is why I think we have a chance of the title ... all the clubs above us are worse than they were last season ! 

Hope I'm wrong but I think we've timed it one year too early unfortunately.

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

This is why I think we have a chance of the title ... all the clubs above us are worse than they were last season ! 

City are, I agree. Liverpool? I am not sure on them yet.

But Arsenal worse than last season? From what little I have seen of them I think they look better. Their defence is exceptional.

15 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

My point was more about us struggling to beat teams like Forest rather than what other teams around us are doing. We regularly fail to get the result against teams that play a low block and I think it's almost always because of how we approach these games. Forest going down to 10 men changed nothing because of how bad we are against these types of teams. 

Also, I didn't play down our win against Brighton. I praised our attack, but thought that off the ball we were really poor, and when you look at how the game went, how can that be argued against? I also said we had better control in the 2nd half. 

Felix had a goal scoring chance. Nkunku had a goal scoring chance. Palmer had a goal scoring chance. 3 great chances with Forrest parked in their box well organized. This team is quite capable of beating a low block. It's ironic you are criticizing the squad when over the summer we had an argument over the Omorodion lad and how you thought he wouldn't be beneficial for us when on the contrary I said his profile is exactly what we needed in attack to beat these stubborn sides. Palace and Forrest I believe we would have taken all 3 points with him at the end of those chances. 

15 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

This is why I think we have a chance of the title ... all the clubs above us are worse than they were last season ! 

Nah. Defensively we still lose far too many duels and face way to many shots from open play. That and a proper sh*tehouse in attack is what we are lacking. 

4 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Felix had a goal scoring chance. Nkunku had a goal scoring chance. Palmer had a goal scoring chance. 3 great chances with Forrest parked in their box well organized. This team is quite capable of beating a low block. It's ironic you are criticizing the squad when over the summer we had an argument over the Omorodion lad and how you thought he wouldn't be beneficial for us when on the contrary I said his profile is exactly what we needed in attack to beat these stubborn sides. Palace and Forrest I believe we would have taken all 3 points with him at the end of those chances. 

 

All of those chances came after Forest went down to 10 men. Before then, we weren't creating much outside of Madueke. As for Omorodion, we can't know for sure how well he would have done, but I don't see how he would have made any difference when there was zero service. We don't play the right way against sides that play a low block, and we haven't done for years.