Every time Forest had a set piece, Cucurella the smallest player on the pitch was picking up Milenkovic the tallest player on the pitch. You don't need a specialist set-piece coach, you don't need to be a professional football manager to realise that is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be changed ASAP.

 

2 minutes ago, just said:

Every time Forest had a set piece, Cucurella the smallest player on the pitch was picking up Milenkovic the tallest player on the pitch. You don't need a specialist set-piece coach, you don't need to be a professional football manager to realise that is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be changed ASAP.

 

Weird is that this been going on for at least Poch's tenure as well and just like you I have no idea why. Losing a few threads of hair every single corner. 

34 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Ergghh.. Felix and Enzo let him Down today.. but we need to fix our set pieces.. we never score and concede a lot.

I think he also let himself down. He hasn't improved us a single bit defensively so far, which was evident once again with the chances Forest had.

I also thought his approach from the start shows that he is yet another coach that refuses to adapt to a different playstyle from the opposition. We've played the exact same team, with the exact same tactics we used against Brighton. Brighton and Forest play two totally different styles of football, and Maresca had us playing exactly the same way against both of them. The problem is, it won't work against Forest, it didn't work against Palace either. A team playing a low block often has very few issues with the opposition playing with a slow build up and trying to play precision passes. I've seen enough of it in my life and enough of Chelsea failing to beat it. What they hate is quick attackers, pacey wingers and a bit of trickery. Madueke was the only threat for us today, because he is everything you need against a low block. Sancho, Jackson and Enzo should never have started. Neto, Mudryk or Felix would have been better options on the wing. Nkunku should 100% have started in front of Jackson, and Lavia (don't know how fit he is) would have been better than Enzo.

11 minutes ago, just said:

Every time Forest had a set piece, Cucurella the smallest player on the pitch was picking up Milenkovic the tallest player on the pitch. You don't need a specialist set-piece coach, you don't need to be a professional football manager to realise that is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be changed ASAP.

 

This happens at all the teams, look at City, Arsenal defending set pieces they but the big guys in the 6 yards box and the other players mark the attackers. This is something that has slowly taken over defending set pieces.

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he also let himself down. He hasn't improved us a single bit defensively so far, which was evident once again with the chances Forest had.

I also thought his approach from the start shows that he is yet another coach that refuses to adapt to a different playstyle from the opposition. We've played the exact same team, with the exact same tactics we used against Brighton. Brighton and Forest play two totally different styles of football, and Maresca had us playing exactly the same way against both of them. The problem is, it won't work against Forest, it didn't work against Palace either. A team playing a low block often has very few issues with the opposition playing with a slow build up and trying to play precision passes. I've seen enough of it in my life and enough of Chelsea failing to beat it. What they hate is quick attackers, pacey wingers and a bit of trickery. Madueke was the only threat for us today, because he is everything you need against a low block. Sancho, Jackson and Enzo should never have started. Neto, Mudryk or Felix would have been better options on the wing. Nkunku should 100% have started in front of Jackson, and Lavia (don't know how fit he is) would have been better than Enzo.

The player I'd like to see utilised against teams playing a low block is Carney Chukwuemeka. 

4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he also let himself down. He hasn't improved us a single bit defensively so far, which was evident once again with the chances Forest had.

I also thought his approach from the start shows that he is yet another coach that refuses to adapt to a different playstyle from the opposition. We've played the exact same team, with the exact same tactics we used against Brighton. Brighton and Forest play two totally different styles of football, and Maresca had us playing exactly the same way against both of them. The problem is, it won't work against Forest, it didn't work against Palace either. A team playing a low block often has very few issues with the opposition playing with a slow build up and trying to play precision passes. I've seen enough of it in my life and enough of Chelsea failing to beat it. What they hate is quick attackers, pacey wingers and a bit of trickery. Madueke was the only threat for us today, because he is everything you need against a low block. Sancho, Jackson and Enzo should never have started. Neto, Mudryk or Felix would have been better options on the wing. Nkunku should 100% have started in front of Jackson, and Lavia (don't know how fit he is) would have been better than Enzo.

I can’t argue with this .. I also felt this was not a Jackson game.. and definitely sancho was ineffective after first 45/60 mins.. 

the other thing we didn’t do enough was draw fouls and get them on a few cards .. I think Enzo was quite ineffective too.. 

don’t like Gusto as an inverted fb was one of the worst players on the pitch in that position.

15 minutes ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

Weird is that this been going on for at least Poch's tenure as well and just like you I have no idea why. Losing a few threads of hair every single corner. 

It has. I absolutely hate any form of zonal marking really. I feel it's lazy defending. But whatever, if the attacking player is 6'5" and the the defender is 5'6", it doesn't matter if the defender is in the right zone and touch tight, the bloke who is 6'5" is gonna win the ball coming across in the air 9 times out of 10. It isn't rocket science, it's poor tactics/coaching.

Edited October 6, 20241 yr by just

No judgement of the manager today Forest are the current season Burnley. They will annoy every top team this season that they play. They have already beat Liverpool at Anfield and will probable do the same to City and Arsenal. They are annoying waste massive amounts of time and fall over at every opportunity they get.

We should of won but just wasnt our day.

3 minutes ago, El regreso said:

No judgement of the manager today Forest are the current season Burnley. They will annoy every top team this season that they play. They have already beat Liverpool at Anfield and will probable do the same to City and Arsenal. They are annoying waste massive amounts of time and fall over at every opportunity they get.

We should of won but just wasnt our day.

That was just an off day for Liverpool. We have already failed to beat a side that played similar tactics to Forest this season. It's more of a Chelsea problem than a problem for the top teams. We always struggle to beat these teams.

9 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

That was just an off day for Liverpool. We have already failed to beat a side that played similar tactics to Forest this season. It's more of a Chelsea problem than a problem for the top teams. We always struggle to beat these teams.

And that isnt going to change within 3 months of yet another new manager. I will give Maresca the benefit of the doubt to figure this pizzle out. We can sit here and say the solution is easy, play this player, play that player ultimately its down to the manager to make the decision he feels is correct.

We have made good progress so far and look like we are developing an identity so today is just another learning curve.

And Liverpool just so happen to have an off day when they play Forrest not a coincidence.

14 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

That was just an off day for Liverpool. We have already failed to beat a side that played similar tactics to Forest this season. It's more of a Chelsea problem than a problem for the top teams. We always struggle to beat these teams.

Our coaches or players tend to think being cute with the ball will get us the wins when it's really just a simple game of opening up the defence with speed and determination.

We are so bad defensively. I just don't udnerstand how they can make such comical mistakes. Look at the positiopning the other day when we had 5 players in one place, and about 5 opposition ehgind them, and they scored.

Then look at today. This is about 1 second before the free-kcik for their goal is taken

Gusto marking 2 players. Madueke marking 2 players.

Then when its in the air you can see both of them have of course lost the 2 they were trying to mark, and our other 5/6 defenders are all higher up markjing 1 player.

It's just f**king stupid.

 

3 minutes ago, Zeta said:

We are so bad defensively. I just don't udnerstand how they can make such comical mistakes. Look at the positiopning the other day when we had 5 players in one place, and about 5 opposition ehgind them, and they scored.

Then look at today. This is about 1 second before the free-kcik for their goal is taken

Gusto marking 2 players. Madueke marking 2 players.

Then when its in the air you can see both of them have of course lost the 2 they were trying to mark, and our other 5/6 defenders are all higher up markjing 1 player.

It's just f**king stupid.

 

Don't disregard the fact that both Gusto and Cucu were marking guys a foot taller than them. 

Maresca needs to give his defensive coaches and the set piece coach a slap and a fine

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

That was just an off day for Liverpool. We have already failed to beat a side that played similar tactics to Forest this season. It's more of a Chelsea problem than a problem for the top teams. We always struggle to beat these teams.

Yup.

 

I asked the question can maresca figure it out against sides who defend well, and don't play silly high lines.

Been a resounding no so far.

 

9 points from 9 away from home is great, title form for ya @Sexyfootball

5 points from 12 at home is relegation form.

Meet in the middle means a likely 6th to 9th place finish.

57 minutes ago, Deino said:

Don't disregard the fact that both Gusto and Cucu were marking guys a foot taller than them. 

Maresca needs to give his defensive coaches and the set piece coach a slap and a fine

To be fair all our defenders were marking tall players, Forest have a lot of height in their team. I don't think it's a mistake as much as it's all we could do.

They had the averge tallest team last year, we were one of the shortest.

 

1. Nottingham Forest: 1.86m

1. Everton: 1.86m

3. Tottenham: 1.85m

4. Newcastle United: 1.84m

4. Crystal Palace: 1.84m

6. Luton: 1.83m

6. Liverpool: 1.83m

6. Fulham: 1.83m

6. Brentford: 1.83m

10. Aston Villa: 1.82m

10. Arsenal: 1.82m

12. Wolves: 1.81m

12. Man City: 1.81m

12. Man United: 1.81m

15. Sheffield United: 1.8m

15. Bournemouth: 1.8m

17. Burnley: 1.79m

18. West Ham: 1.78m

18. Chelsea: 1.78m

20. Brighton: 1.77m

56 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yup.

 

I asked the question can maresca figure it out against sides who defend well, and don't play silly high lines.

Been a resounding no so far.

 

9 points from 9 away from home is great, title form for ya @Sexyfootball

5 points from 12 at home is relegation form.

Meet in the middle means a likely 6th to 9th place finish.

Crazy how we’re 4th then….

The only thing I can blame him for today are the late subs.

It was not suprising he wanted to ride the momentum after Noni's equalizer but he should've brought the attackers right after the goal.

Nico was a passanger the whole game and by the time we equalized Sancho was fading out of the game as well.

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

And that isnt going to change within 3 months of yet another new manager. I will give Maresca the benefit of the doubt to figure this pizzle out. We can sit here and say the solution is easy, play this player, play that player ultimately its down to the manager to make the decision he feels is correct.

We have made good progress so far and look like we are developing an identity so today is just another learning curve.

And Liverpool just so happen to have an off day when they play Forrest not a coincidence.

If we are making progress and Maresca is doing a great job, why are we conceding so many goals from set-pieces? Why isn't this problem, that everyone can see and is relatively straightforward to correct, not being addressed? 

Disappointing to not win but we should have. A couple of clear chances towards the end - so close. 
 

To be 4th in the league after 7 games,   think we would have all taken that. We can’t be expected to be above Arsenal, city or Liverpool. So I think it’s been a positive start. 

2 hours ago, dkw said:

To be fair all our defenders were marking tall players, Forest have a lot of height in their team. I don't think it's a mistake as much as it's all we could do.

They had the averge tallest team last year, we were one of the shortest.

 

1. Nottingham Forest: 1.86m

1. Everton: 1.86m

3. Tottenham: 1.85m

4. Newcastle United: 1.84m

4. Crystal Palace: 1.84m

6. Luton: 1.83m

6. Liverpool: 1.83m

6. Fulham: 1.83m

6. Brentford: 1.83m

10. Aston Villa: 1.82m

10. Arsenal: 1.82m

12. Wolves: 1.81m

12. Man City: 1.81m

12. Man United: 1.81m

15. Sheffield United: 1.8m

15. Bournemouth: 1.8m

17. Burnley: 1.79m

18. West Ham: 1.78m

18. Chelsea: 1.78m

20. Brighton: 1.77m

Every week we will defend these situations against players of different height. Of course some teams will have more taller players than us. Nothing we can do about that.

What we can do,  in these situations, is use some common sense and match up our tallest players against theirs. I'd have had a lot more hope of Fofana winning aerial set piece crosses against Milenkovic than Cucurella. At the very least Milenkovic wouldn't be able to jump straight over him! I say again, it isn't rocket science. And it should not all be down to a specialist set piece coach. Maresca is the manager, the coach. This is on him to sort out and it really isn't that hard IMO.

51 minutes ago, just said:

If we are making progress and Maresca is doing a great job, why are we conceding so many goals from set-pieces? Why isn't this problem, that everyone can see and is relatively straightforward to correct, not being addressed? 

Because like with any job  you can’t fix everything at once.

You have a 3 months, 6 months, 9 months etc targets and once you fix one issue and the players understand that you move to the next. 
 

Trying to fix everything at once will end with nothing getting accomplished.

The manager has constantly said we have loads of areas to improve and am sure he means defence/ midfield. He has been consistent on that and I am sure he knows this. 
 

I am sure we will eventually get better but it’s not something that will happen overnight.

8 minutes ago, El regreso said:

Because like with any job  you can’t fix everything at once.

You have a 3 months, 6 months, 9 months etc targets and once you fix one issue and the players understand that you move to the next. 
 

Trying to fix everything at once will end with nothing getting accomplished.

The manager has constantly said we have loads of areas to improve and am sure he means defence/ midfield. He has been consistent on that and I am sure he knows this. 
 

I am sure we will eventually get better but it’s not something that will happen overnight.

How is not a major priority when we are conceding set-piece goals so regularly?

9 hours ago, just said:

Every time Forest had a set piece, Cucurella the smallest player on the pitch was picking up Milenkovic the tallest player on the pitch. You don't need a specialist set-piece coach, you don't need to be a professional football manager to realise that is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be changed ASAP.

 

That is fine just. It is basic zonal marking, you play 3 player who can win header (2cb + Jackson) defending central area and you have the rest marking (in our case, it is closer to disturbing than marking since all of them are awful in the air) opp. It is what it is. 

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

Weird is that this been going on for at least Poch's tenure as well and just like you I have no idea why. Losing a few threads of hair every single corner. 

Because our player are horrible in the air. 

Our two biggest problem last year by quite a distance were long ball and set pieces. This was how teams hurt us and it is the same exact thing this season.

We can play well, dominate the game, doesn't matter, just kick long ball and set pieces and you can attack us. 

 

 

12 hours ago, just said:

How is not a major priority when we are conceding set-piece goals so regularly?

If he fixed the defence and the attack wasn’t scoring it would be the same argument the opposite way:”Why isn’t he fixing our attack we can’t score”

Actually you can see a lot of that argument today too regarding low block.

Dammed if he does dammed if he doesn’t!!

Edited October 7, 20241 yr by El regreso