Where exactly does David Luiz fit in to the side? I just read in a thread about Jose going nuts in Spain last night, a comment from TheWestwayWonder. He said that although he doesn’t want him sold Real ought to be after him at all cost for their defence. (Hope you don’t mind me quoting you WW).

This just made me think about what role he has at Chelsea. The way I see it is that most people don’t see him as a midfielder and with having signed Oriol Romeu and seemingly still looking for another midfielder or two anyway, he is unlikely to appear in our midfield. And he seems to have quite a job on his hands getting into our regular centre back pairing as at the moment it looks like JT and Alex’s to lose. Then there is Ivan, possibly Rajkovic and even Bruma still on the clubs books.

So as popular as he is, and as talented and recently purchased as he is, is there an argument that he is in any way surplus to requirements? I'm sure we could recoup the full transfer fee.

Personally I’d love to see him as one of our first choice centre backs (and I’d be interested to see him behind the striker as a 10 – out of pure curiosity), but I fear that his somewhat erratic style may make it difficult for him to get past any managers preference for good solid reliable CB’s like JT, BI, Alex and Rajkovic.

I think Luiz will be JT's regular partner in the centre of defence as he has the pace to complement JT (in the same way Gallas did) which is something Alex doesn't have.

Alex still might go. If it is between Alex and Ivan i'd stick with Ivan. He's been one of our best players the past 2-3 seasons. Rajkovic we could still loan out.

When fit, Alex has been immense, however Luiz is the one for the future and will surely be JT's pairing. Alex, at 29, and being non EU will probably find himself out sooner rather than later, sadly.

I have a simular worry. I think Luiz is good already and after a season or two next to Terry he could become world class BUT i dont know why but i have a feeling that AVB doesnt fancy him very much. It will be interesting to see what happens when he is fit.

I dont understand why Rameris got a run out against Rangers but Luiz didnt.

I think the major thing that Luiz has going for him is he can play anywhere across the back line and could probably do a decent job in midfield to. He could become our new Belletti.

At what point has Rajkovic proven himself to be a "consistent" defender? Surely not the guy who was nearly suspended for two years from all competitions because of his rash behaviour leading to spitting at a referee?

All young defenders make mistakes. It's how they react to them, and how the manager frames it, that will decide whether they will learn from it and progress or ruminate on it and stagnate their careers.

David Luiz went from being Chelsea hero to zero in a matter of seconds (and such a swing of opinion coincided with the media's take on it too...) because of one high-profile mistake. Let the media and other fans write off Luiz' career but i'm not ready to. Name one defender, hell, one other player who marries together that level of defensive and offensive technique with strength and speed and creativity.

I have a simular worry. I think Luiz is good already and after a season or two next to Terry he could become world class BUT i dont know why but i have a feeling that AVB doesnt fancy him very much. It will be interesting to see what happens when he is fit.

How can you form that impression? I'd say your feeling is from reading too much of the gossip media. AVB hasn't had Luiz fit for a single match yet.

One fricking game has been played

Sydney hits the nail on the head. Luiz has played half a season in a new country and was largely excellent. Yes he made a couple of mistakes but find me a young defender who hasn't. He also brings something to the team that none of our other centre halves do which is pace and the ability to drive the team forward from the back.

Keep him and we have a world class centre half for a decade or more.

No no, I disagree with the statement of AVB doesn't fancy Luiz. AVB said, when we're against a 'park bus' team, we can have few touches at the back line and try to move forward. It pushes the team forward and creates more chances.

In Porto, AVB always plays a high defensive line. Luiz can provide attacking threat which AVB wants.

I apologise if I come across as a cheerleader for Luiz, but it just shocks me to see the parallels of the criticisms angled at Luiz and Carvalho, and yet the vast differences.

Carvalho joined at the start of a season, had a pre-season and broke apart a proven central defensive combination and walked into a team that was top of the league. Luiz joined a club in crisis, added energy, flair and life into a dead season and played a very big role in taking us so close to the finish line. He also made his mistake in a very high-profile game in a very high pressure situation in a country he had been in for less than two months.

Equally as absurd is the notion that Luiz, because he's an attacking, flair player, needs to be played in midfield. That's far too much of a stereotype. What's wrong with an attacking defender? Should Bayern Munich and Inter have played Lucio at defensive midfield? Should Barcelona push Gerard Pique in the hole to cover for Iniesta. Should John Terry, our best passer in the squad, be played in Lampard's role? Conversely, should Makelele and Essien have been played in defence? Injury crisis aside, the answer is a resounding no. What sets these players apart from other defenders is this attacking and technical ability that can change the game in little almost imperceptible ways. Having defenders who can keep possession and pass accurately decreases the amount of turnovers. There's no point in playing Shawcross and Huth against Real Madrid or Barcelona if all they're going to do is boot the ball back to them.

Also, history teaches us a strong lesson. People should read about what United fans wrote on Vidic and what Chelsea fans wrote about Ivanovic (despite him hardly playing due to fitness issues...) at the end of their six-month, post-January signings. United fans couldn't believe that Heintze was going to make way for Vidic and called Fergie all sorts of labels.

Ferdinand never went a game without making a kistake before he was 24, it comes with the territory of being a ball playing CB.

Luiz will mature into one of the best CB's in the game and he's at the right club and alongside the right man (JT] to do it.

Take anything the media say, including criticism, with a pinch of salt. He will make mistakes every now and then but they will become less and less frequent as he matures, you'd still rather have a player like him than a CB who's default is to aimlessly hoof the ball 60 yards at every opportunity.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by ScandiBlue

I agree with both loz and SC. I think we're going to see the back four rotated to a reasonable degree. JT and Alex are both going to need time out at various times, particularly JT who seems to continue to play despite having that nerve issue. I think AVB will intend to rotate them through to some degree. With JT getting some of the lesser games off and Luiz and Alex fighting it out for the bigger matches.

Ivan as far as I see it, is our permanent right back. Bosingwa despite his performance Sunday isn't going to be a long term challenger there.

Also SC you're spot on about playing him in midfield.

Alongside JT, with Ivan at RB

I’m sure some people don’t read more than the previous post in a thread before adding their own comment.

I was only trying to have a discussion that doesn’t involve a player who plays for someone else and there was no hint of criticism aimed at Luiz, AVB or any other defender. I just wondered if with Alex and JT looking very solid, and Ivan being a similar style third choice, did anyone have an opinion on whether or not Luiz may struggle to get much game time.

Perhaps once he is fit it will be a case of he is in and Alex is out. I don’t know, maybe AVB still doesn’t. It was just a topic to discuss while we wait for Saturday’s game. Like I said, a change from going on about Hazards and Matas etc.

Sydney, I agree Rajkovic hasn’t proven himself to be anything yet as we’ve hardly seen him. But I was kind of assuming from his physique and the couple of preseason games that he is a bit more in the Terry, Alex, Droy mould of defender and less a cavalier as Luiz seems to be.

Sorry to get defensive but I sometimes feel discussions turn a bit barbed so quickly. Difference of opinion, fine, but we are all supporting the same cause aren’t we? One fricking game doesn’t seem to lend much to this discussion.

Just one other thing, I agree that Luiz should be played as a centre back and he could be a game winner from there with his attack minded style. That is the sort of football we all want to see after all. But didn’t Drogba start out as a centre back?

I remember reading that JT was having major problems with his leg, needing injections before every game. I seem to recall the possibility of him being in a wheelchair if he kept playing as much as he did. So I think Terry isn't able to play every game in a season anymore. Alex and Luiz can both play at the same time when Terry is injured, with Luiz taking terry's role, which he can do well because of his ball control and pace.

Edited August 18, 201114 yr by ivorycoast

At what point has Rajkovic proven himself to be a "consistent" defender? Surely not the guy who was nearly suspended for two years from all competitions because of his rash behaviour leading to spitting at a referee?

I will say, SC, that Rajkovic did that when he was 16. Given his age doing something horribly immature like that can be forgiven surely.

But I agree with all your sentiments on Luiz. He did go from zero to hero becuase of that game, and it was totally unfair given that he was approaching legend status in the previous 10 games. I do see alot of comparisons with RIccy in that Riccy had a similar style when he came here, and took a while to adjust. It really wasnt until 2006/7 that Carvalho became our best and most consistant defender at times.

In a few years, we will have to go with Ivan and Luiz as our two CBs. And that thought leaves me brimming with confidence. He is going to be an immense player for us.

Snedger, I dont mind you quoting me at all mate, feel free (though some of my insights can be terrible so look out). The reason I said that about Luiz and Madrid is that Pepe, Ramos, and Marcelo are all class defenders but prone to losing their cool against Barcelona and doing something stupid. I feel as if Luiz has the speed, class, and room for development to anchor any backline in the world, and right now Madrid need fast, young, mobile defenders who can gel together. Or theyre not going to get anywhere near Barca.

I could honestly see them shattering the transfer record for a defender, becuase he would be even better suited to Spanish football. And im not just saying that cause of the hair.

probably the worst of our four central defenders, and the second best left back in the squad.

he's potentially a better defender than alex or ivanovic, and he should get loads of games because he offers us things they don't.

firstly he has the pace and mobility to play as an agressive man marker. that pace also makes him useful for a high line and / or covering the fullback. finally against sides who play defensively with one forward we could use him as the player who moves into midfield.

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What Loz said

I could see him develop into a CB partner with Ivanovic in a couple of seasons. With Rajkovic as back up and maybe another signing in that time, or someone coming up from the reserves.

I have a simular worry. I think Luiz is good already and after a season or two next to Terry he could become world class BUT i dont know why but i have a feeling that AVB doesnt fancy him very much. It will be interesting to see what happens when he is fit.

I dont understand why Rameris got a run out against Rangers but Luiz didnt.

I think the major thing that Luiz has going for him is he can play anywhere across the back line and could probably do a decent job in midfield to. He could become our new Belletti.

I thought Luiz came back from the copa america with a slight knee problem, hence the decision not to give him a run out against rangers. I saw in one of the papers yesterday that he will start training properly again soon.

On the initial subject of where he fits into our team. I think most of us agree that JT is the first pick at the moment, but we also need to plan for the future so we dont have the same situation which we currently have up the other end of the pitch. While i see Luiz as our first choice CB in the future, I personally prefer Alex to be our second choice CB at the moment. He is big, strong, reads the game well, great header, big shot ,and goal threat. Thats not to say that Luiz isnt also any of those things, but at the moment my choice would be Alex to partner JT.

I dont like Ivan at CB and Bruma/Rajkovic have not yet proven themselves. For me, Luiz is our third choice CB, who should be played regularly to give him EPL experience and game time to develop. Given his vision/flair and passing ability he could unlock defenses for us in tight games, so i would rotate him with Alex regularly depending on the opposition.

What would we gain from selling him?

No one will buy him this window, or next as he will be cup-tied by January and FIFA rules stipulate you can't play for more than 2 teams per calendar year.

At the earliest we can sell him in the next summer window, and his contract will have run down a bit more by then so its possible even if he's playing well we won't get any offers equivalent to what we paid for him.

Aside from all that he's a quality defender. Don't crucify him for one mistake.