Agree that we as fans should dictate the clubs transfer policy. That sounds like a healthy way to run a club...

The way you talk about him however, you would think he has never had a good game- what did you think of his performances against Newcastle and Arsenal this season for example? There have been match winning goals as well as good performances so I don't really agree that he would be playing in the reserves if it wasn't for the price tag etc- he has 4 goals in 8 games, he could have more granted but I just don't think he is as bad as you are implying...

funny that, because i geniuinely dont think he is that inconsistent. imo he has been playing the around the same level since around january, if memery serves me right. his first 6 months or so though were laughably bad.

against newcastle ? the same as usual. didnt get into good positions, made wrong decisions and was weak on the ball. everyone just glosses over that performance because he scored that goal. arsenal was his best performance of the season (if i recall correctly, cant think of a better one)

thing is, unless his team mates around him show up then he will not, and even then he may not because he aint that good. he doesnt make those half chances into goals. so many times i have seen balls put into the box just begging for someone to take that gamble across the front of the defender and he is always wandering behind, nowhere near the danger spot. i genuinely wouldve preffered kalou to be our starting CF over torres this season

imo, yes he is that bad. chelsea perfomances alone he would be hard pressed to get into a midtable team. cmon people, hes been given so much time, its not gonna work. the board shouldve realised this sooner.

a good way to know the quality of someone - how much do defences dread playing against the player ?

Edited October 27, 201213 yr by onebelo

funny that, because i geniuinely dont think he is that inconsistent. imo he has been playing the around the same level since around january, if memery serves me right. his first 6 months or so though were laughably bad.

against newcastle ? the same as usual. didnt get into good positions, made wrong decisions and was weak on the ball. everyone just glosses over that performance because he scored that goal. arsenal was his best performance of the season (if i recall correctly, cant think of a better one)

thing is, unless his team mates around him show up then he will not, and even then he may not because he aint that good. he doesnt make those half chances into goals. so many times i have seen balls put into the box just begging for someone to take that gamble across the front of the defender and he is always wandering behind, nowhere near the danger spot. i genuinely wouldve preffered kalou to be our starting CF over torres this season

imo, yes he is that bad. chelsea perfomances alone he would be hard pressed to get into a midtable team. cmon people, hes been given so much time, its not gonna work. the board shouldve realised this sooner.

a good way to know the quality of someone - how much do defences dread playing against the player ?

You didn't think the movement for his goal aganst Newcastle was impressive? You didn't think the finish was quality?

So he scored, won a penalty, showed great movement and link up play with his team mates in the process and the people who gave him praise for this were 'glossing over' what was actually (in your opinion) a really bad game for him? Riiiiight.

In answer to your question of how much do defences dread playing against him I have no idea as I am not on speaking terms with any Premiership footballers to ask. Are you?!

I hate this thread but I can't stay away from it, like Chelsea under AVB.

Its getting to the point where I just want Torres to score, so it shuts some of the morons up to be honest!

Its getting to the point where I just want Torres to score, so it shuts some of the morons up to be honest!

Didn't you want that anyways?

There only one thing we can do and hat's wait until January See how he performs from now until then, you must admit, though none of his performances were world class he has stepped up his game since last year. If he's not performing in December, look at other players, don't think now is the right time.

You didn't think the movement for his goal aganst Newcastle was impressive? You didn't think the finish was quality?

So he scored, won a penalty, showed great movement and link up play with his team mates in the process and the people who gave him praise for this were 'glossing over' what was actually (in your opinion) a really bad game for him? Riiiiight.

In answer to your question of how much do defences dread playing against him I have no idea as I am not on speaking terms with any Premiership footballers to ask. Are you?!

- it was absolutely a quality move and goal. that is once in 2 years quality, unfortunetely

- well, thats exactly what 'glossing over' means doesnt it. he did 2 good things and people say he was immense and forget everything he did wrong

- thats not a serious answer so i wont bother giving a response

Edited October 27, 201213 yr by onebelo

There only one thing we can do and hat's wait until January

or play someone else in the squad

I think Mclovin was just pointing out that the post above his was a stupid pointless post!

I'd say only 2/3 players didn't 'stink up the place' against Shakthar, so why dig 1 player out! lets move on, these things happen every now and then in football!

Shaktah has very little to do with my thoughts, I think there a very good team and on the night where much better then us all over the pitch.

My opinion comes down to this.

Do I think Torres has been good enough for us this season? Consistently no, but by no means has he stunk up the place consistently, He has his moments but at the same time I 100% believe that the Torres, we thought we where buying (didnt want him my self) would have had far more by now, in the leugue we have been that good, strange that he has taken some harder chances where as the bread and butter ones he has just looked caught in the head lights so to speak.

I love the way we are playing this season and think we are once again building a great squad. but there are going to be games when the chances arn't so reuglar and right now, torres with should be a 70/30 chance is more like a 30/70, you don't really want that going in to the tight tight games.

Look i'm not really a big advocate of fantasy football, im not up for the falco sighning, i think it reeks of torres/ sheva philosiphy, I think if we are going to spend big go neymar,

I also happen to believe that sturridge is a better option, and if he got the games he wouldnt be looking to leave. I believe he is quicker the torres, actually lightening quick, a better finisher, better first touch and a bit more tallent, sure he's likes to take a shot on but I wish torres would more. And thats it for me, I think we have better available internally.

- it was absolutely a quality move and goal. that is once in 2 years quality, unfortunetely

- well, thats exactly what 'glossing over' means doesnt it. he did 2 good things and people say he was immense and forget everything he did wrong

- thats not a serious answer so i wont bother giving a response

Yes it was a quality move and goal, he also won a penalty in that game and I just don't don't agree with you that everthing else he did in that game was poor (doubt many other people would either) so we will have to agree to disagree there. How is it once in 2 years by the way? He has scored other goals and has about 20 odd assists?

It am not sure how else to answer it, you were implying that defenders don't dread playing against Torres without having anything to base it on other than your own assumptions.

Yes it was a quality move and goal, he also won a penalty in that game and I just don't don't agree with you that everthing else he did in that game was poor (doubt many other people would either) so we will have to agree to disagree there. How is it once in 2 years by the way? He has scored other goals and has about 20 odd assists?

It am not sure how else to answer it, you were implying that defenders don't dread playing against Torres without having anything to base it on other than your own assumptions.

- that quality was once in 2 years. he hasnt had a goal close to that in his chelsea career.

- i wasnt stating torres doesnt scare defences, i was giving you a different way to look at it, it was a question. so, how much do you think defences fear seeing his name on the teamsheet?

Yes it was a quality move and goal, he also won a penalty in that game and I just don't don't agree with you that everthing else he did in that game was poor (doubt many other people would either) so we will have to agree to disagree there. How is it once in 2 years by the way? He has scored other goals and has about 20 odd assists?

It am not sure how else to answer it, you were implying that defenders don't dread playing against Torres without having anything to base it on other than your own assumptions.

I think onebelo likes to just make stuff up to try and make his arguement look stronger instead of looking at the facts ( this season)

I think onebelo likes to just make stuff up to try and make his arguement look stronger instead of looking at the facts ( this season)

by facts i take it you mean stats ?

by facts i take it you mean stats ?

Yes!

Yes!

funny because that seems to be exactly what stats are used to do

funny because that seems to be exactly what stats are used to do

Eh?

- that quality was once in 2 years. he hasnt had a goal close to that in his chelsea career.

- i wasnt stating torres doesnt scare defences, i was giving you a different way to look at it, it was a question. so, how much do you think defences fear seeing his name on the teamsheet?

His goal in the Arsenal game was quality wasn't it? Wasn't exactly a tap in was it. The Newcastle goal was a truly class goal in every aspect, and could well be the pick of his Chelsea goals however that doens't mean every other goal he has scored was lacking in quality or that they didn't require skill and talent to execute.

I would say defences would have every reason to fear Torres, his movement and passing can, and has, created goals hence why he has the number of assists he does for the club. His finishing in one on ones is lacking at the moment and of course his goal tally since joining is not what we had all hoped but I don't think for a second that defenders will think they will have it easy when playing against Torres.

He's improved if you are looking solely at stats.

10/11: Games 18, Goals 1. Ratio of goals to games: 1:18 (Defenders would be disappointed with this)

11/12: Games 49, Goals 11. Ratio of goals to games: 1:5 (Poor for a striker)

12/13: Games 13, Goals 6. Ratio of goals to games: 1:2 (Good)

It's just a matter of, will he keep it up. And more importantly for me, if he's our main man, will be bring it on the big occasions or just score against mid-low table opposition mostly?

If you look back at Drogba, cup finals, semi-finals, etc... he was the man. If we needed a goal, often he'd deliver. Do we believe (more importantly, does Fernando believe) that he can do that?

Put it this way, if we're fighting for the title on the last day of the season and Torres breaks clear of the defence and is through on goal from say, just outside the box, would you actually want it to be him with the opportunity? Or would you prefer it was someone else?

He's improved if you are looking solely at stats.

10/11: Games 18, Goals 1. Ratio of goals to games: 1:18 (Defenders would be disappointed with this)

11/12: Games 49, Goals 11. Ratio of goals to games: 1:5 (Poor for a striker)

12/13: Games 13, Goals 6. Ratio of goals to games: 1:2 (Good)

It's just a matter of, will he keep it up. And more importantly for me, if he's our main man, will be bring it on the big occasions or just score against mid-low table opposition mostly?

If you look back at Drogba, cup finals, semi-finals, etc... he was the man. If we needed a goal, often he'd deliver. Do we believe (more importantly, does Fernando believe) that he can do that?

Put it this way, if we're fighting for the title on the last day of the season and Torres breaks clear of the defence and is through on goal from say, just outside the box, would you actually want it to be him with the opportunity? Or would you prefer it was someone else?

I'll be surprised if anyone answers Torres to this.

I wouldn't be, but I think those who say they would want it to be him would be thinking differently inside.

It's not really about is he good or is he sh*t, it's would you have confidence in him to get the goal when we need it.

As a comparison, look back at some of the striker's we've had in years gone by... Drogba is the obvious one, Gudjonhsen, Hasselbaink, Zola, Crespo. None of them were world class strikers when we had them, not the type to score 30 goals a season like people have mentioned in this thread (although Jimmy and Eidur came close in 01/02). But I would have had confidence in any of them to score one on one with the keeper when the pressuer was on and we really needed it.

Torres I wouldn't.

True, but the same could be said of the majority of the team.

Difference is that only Torres has a thread dedicated to him were his every single move is put under the microscope....

But the thread was only started cause of his multitude of other abject performances. As others have said, he has his moments....but just isnt doing enough. I've never been compelled to comment on this thread before but I thought the Shaktar performance was awful. Yeah, the whole team wasn't great, but I thought he was noticably bad, not for the first time.

He isn't getting into dangerous positions enough.

18 goals in 80 games playing centre forward is pretty poor - especially for a top team like Chelsea. Quite a few of those 18 have come against sh*te opposition as well. 7 of them against Genk, Leicester and QPR off the top of my head (please don't point out "but he scored against Arsenal and Barca!"....I'm fully aware of that).

If Chelsea had played with, say, someone like Grant Holt in all of those 80 games Fernando had played, do you think he'd have more than 18 goals? Serious question.

Edited October 27, 201213 yr by BernardLambourde

If u compare Torres now to the Torres that first signed, there is a VAST improvement. He's getting the ball into dangerous areas, winning tackles, creating chances and scoring goals, and doing some or all of those things nearly every game. I don't see what the problem is. Quality never goes away.

But the thread was only started cause of his multitude of other abject performances. As others have said, he has his moments....but just isnt doing enough. I've never been compelled to comment on this thread before but I thought the Shaktar performance was awful. Yeah, the whole team wasn't great, but I thought he was noticably bad, not for the first time.

He isn't getting into dangerous positions enough.

18 goals in 80 games playing centre forward is pretty poor. Quite a few of those 18 have come against sh*te opposition as well. Genk, Leicester, QPR (please don't point out "but he scored against Arsenal and Barca!"....I'm fully aware of that).

I don't disagree with the majority of what you are saying but you don't need to reference Torres goal/game stats to get your point across as I don't think there is a Chelsea fan out there who would claim it is an impressive stat. He hasn't scored enough goals- we know this.

All I would say is that under RDM it has improved and there have been further improvement this season and he is now a far more usefull player than in his first year with the club. He still isn't doing enough for me overall and it's looking likely that we will have to review our striker situation in the summer if we don't do it sooner.

All that said I didn't thnk the performance of Torres was the most worrying thing about the Shaktar game and when there were other players who made fairly high profile errors which lead directly to us conceding goals which we didn't need to. I would say they 'stunk the place out' as much as Torres if not more.

He is ok, but team like Chelsea needs great.

Yes, he has improved under Di Matteo but he'd have been hard pressed to get any worse. I was starting to feel more confident after the start to this season with him averaging a 1 in 2 ratio....but moments against Shaktar when he kept losing possesion.....or against Spurs when we worked the ball out wide and he didn't bust a gut to get into the six yard box....well, it made me think it's time to cut out losses and get rid.

I'd like to see him spending less time going out wide....we have the three behind him to do that. The run Mata made for his second goal against Spurs (whilst Torres was standing still) was exactly the kind of run Torres used to make whilst playing for Liverpool. Actually, I recently saw his goal against us for Liverpool in the CL semi in 2008 (I think Benayoun put him through). It was the exact kind of movement, off the shoulder of the last defender, that seems to have deserted him at Chelsea.