Torres doesn't have a long enough name to lead the line for Dortmund anyway.

Torres doesn't have a long enough name to lead the line for Dortmund anyway.

 

So no chance of Ba moving there then...? 

The team that played in Munich - every single one - were heroes!

The expectation level on Torres has been part of the problem, the other obviously, is the relative low conversation rate. It's not bad but it's not high enough. I think he gives his all and he has been here when the team were in relative decline - sixth in the PL. We are now building again but he still has a contribution to make this year and I hope he does. It's only just beginning to hot up.

Know what I believe? However you spin it I always feel the true reflection of a genuine top quality player is not what his own fan's think, it's what your hardcore opposition fan's think. Do they fear them? Do they covet them? Do they have faux-hate for them?

 

Take Drogba as a superb example, (though Frank Lampard would have been another equally as good illustration). Vehemently disliked by practically every other team's supporters, Christ Arsenal fans were literally obsessed with the bloke. Why? Because they feared him, really feared him. Scared of what he was capable of, how he could turn a game single handedly. And coveted, despite what they said on the radio phone-ins or down the pub, the majority of Liverpoo, United, Tottenham, Arsenal fans would have taken him in a heartbeat and he would have walked into any of their starting line ups. And if he was playing for their side they would have worshipped him.

 

Now do the same with Torres. Talk to rival fans, listen to the phone-ins. Do they have a faux-hatred for him? Do they fear him? Do they covet him? No. Why? I'll tell you. Because they do not see him as a threat. They do not fear him. Generally they talk about him with either complete indifference or plain ridicule. There is some faux-hatred from Liverpoo fans but that's down to the way they perceived he engineered a move away from Anfield, not because the sight of him in a blue shirt has them quaking with fear at what he is likely to produce.

 

Liverpoo, United, Tottenham, Arsenal, Citeh; with the form he has shown over the past three and a bit years he wouldn't be a regular first choice start at any of those clubs. Not one. Nor at any of the other top sides in Europe. And that tells us the real story.

Know what I believe? However you spin it I always feel the true reflection of a genuine top quality player is not what his own fan's think, it's what your hardcore opposition fan's think. Do they fear them? Do they covet them? Do they have faux-hate for them?

Take Drogba as a superb example, (though Frank Lampard would have been another equally as good illustration). Vehemently disliked by practically every other team's supporters, Christ Arsenal fans were literally obsessed with the bloke. Why? Because they feared him, really feared him. Scared of what he was capable of, how he could turn a game single handedly. And coveted, despite what they said on the radio phone-ins or down the pub, the majority of Liverpoo, United, Tottenham, Arsenal fans would have taken him in a heartbeat and he would have walked into any of their starting line ups. And if he was playing for their side they would have worshipped him.

Now do the same with Torres. Talk to rival fans, listen to the phone-ins. Do they have a faux-hatred for him? Do they fear him? Do they covet him? No. Why? I'll tell you. Because they do not see him as a threat. They do not fear him. Generally they talk about him with either complete indifference or plain ridicule. There is some faux-hatred from Liverpoo fans but that's down to the way they perceived he engineered a move away from Anfield, not because the sight of him in a blue shirt has them quaking with fear at what he is likely to produce.

Liverpoo, United, Tottenham, Arsenal, Citeh; with the form he has shown over the past three and a bit years he wouldn't be a regular first choice start at any of those clubs. Not one. Nor at any of the other top sides in Europe. And that tells us the real story.

I don't think anyone in here is saying any different from that though....

We all know Torres is not good enough to lead the line for us when we are gunning for titles and Europe but he and Eto'o are all we have.

The abuse from some posters has been relentless and we get the point so I fail to see what good it is tearing him to shreds everyother week saying the same boring rubbish and especially when in his Chelsea carrer form wise he's had a good game.

RFC, I have a hunch much of it is in response to those posters who take the other view and frequently attempt to paint a picture of Torres having been a relatively successful and worthy signing.

 

No one is saying he hasn't made the odd occaisional important contribution but the fact is it's over three years now and you can count those important contributions on the fingers of your left hand, and the number of really good games he has had on the fingers of your right hand. So to suggest he has been a major factor in any success we have had over that period, is just rewriting history. And yet, some still believe he will come good. 

 

 

Only two days ago a poster on another thread wrote:

 

"And erm TORRES has scored some important goals for us, the best being against Barcelona when even the referee could not cheat in that one and add on more injury time so they could score TWO goals. How did that feel ?Welcome home José and keep Fernando, who in my opinion will really come good".         

 

 

It begs the question, at what point does blind faith just become blindness?

The two most important questions, I think, are (1) did we correctly value Torres ex-ante? and (2) how far off were we in our valuation ex-post?

 

In other words, at the time of the transfer - and given the information that was available at that time (ex-ante) - was the transfer fee and his wages appropriate? Clearly, in hindsight (ex-post) we know the transfer fee and his wages were an overvaluation. But knowledge with hindsight doesn't necessarily help us to improve our (i.e. the club's) future decision making.

 

For the second question, the extent to which we incorrectly valued Torres is important for any future decisions regarding his status as a Chelsea player. If it was a massive overvaluation, it's very unlikely that any other club is going to be able to sign Torres due to our overvaluation being realised in Torres' current wage. Other clubs now have more information, and can thus make a more accurate valuation that will fall short of the valuation we made when negotiating Torres' contract. I think that most of us supporters have, for a while now, assumed this to be the case. Therefore, my logic has been to throw my weight behind Torres and hope that we (as a fan base) can contribute in some small way to getting the most out of the outlay that's already been committed.

 

I don't feel the need to condemn or defend Torres, I just want the club to get the most out of its expenditure.

Edited March 6, 201412 yr by Hazardous

RFC, I have a hunch much of it is in response to those posters who take the other view and frequently attempt to paint a picture of Torres having been a relatively successful and worthy signing.

 

No one is saying he hasn't made the odd occaisional important contribution but the fact is it's over three years now and you can count those important contributions on the fingers of your left hand, and the number of really good games he has had on the fingers of your right hand. So to suggest he has been a major factor in any success we have had over that period, is just rewriting history. And yet, some still believe he will come good. 

 

 

Only two days ago a poster on another thread wrote:

 

"And erm TORRES has scored some important goals for us, the best being against Barcelona when even the referee could not cheat in that one and add on more injury time so they could score TWO goals. How did that feel ?Welcome home José and keep Fernando, who in my opinion will really come good".         

 

 

It begs the question, at what point does blind faith just become blindness?

really where are these constant posters saying Torres has been a major success for us?

Just some of us don't ignore the facts that he has contributed to some if our recent success.

Or turned a fairly average performance into a terrible one.

I agree with those who say if Chelsea had paid less for him, he'd have less critics.

I have a few questions for those same critics...

 

Did the money come out of your pocket?

 

For those who will answer that if we hadn't paid that much for him we'd be buying other players, I ask who, and what makes you think we wouldn't buy other players even with Torres on the squad if they were worth the money and available to us? Weren't we after a few not too long ago? ANd please don't waste your time to type or anyone's to read if you're going to say that his wages alone and him coming to CFC have made the tickets more expensive or in other ways made your support for Chelsea cost you financially.

 

He is a Chelsea player. He isn't worth the 50 million we paid for him, but he is still a Chelsea player, and until we get a better replacement for him and he leaves, I will support him as much as possible, because supporting him is supporting Chelsea.

 

We've had far worse, and he is the best we've got at the moment, so stop acting like you lost something when Roman paid the bill.

 

You think if he cost less he would have been given as many chances - I think he is only here because of how much he cost and the wages he is on. Otherwise much like Sheva he would pretty much been allowed to leave on a free to someone willing to pay for his wages. 

 

We missed out on Falcao; Kun and Cavani - even Jose said that we had no chance to sign Cavani or Falcao in the summer due to FFP

http://www.london24.com/sport/chelsea/jose_mourinho_reveals_why_chelsea_didn_t_sign_cavani_and_falcao_1_3313495 

You think if he cost less he would have been given as many chances - I think he is only here because of how much he cost and the wages he is on. Otherwise much like Sheva he would pretty much been allowed to leave on a free to someone willing to pay for his wages. 

 

We missed out on Falcao; Kun and Cavani - even Jose said that we had no chance to sign Cavani or Falcao in the summer due to FFP

http://www.london24.com/sport/chelsea/

jose_mourinho_reveals_why_chelsea_didn_t_sign_cavani_and_falcao_1_3313495 

We didn't miss out on Kun because of Torres, Roman chose Torres over him.

I doubt we missed out on Falcao & Cavani due to Torres as much as it would suit some people's agenda, probably more to do with a chance to earn tax free & the wages offered by PSG.

I bet some of you would blame Torres for starving children in Africa if you thought you could make it stick!

It's what Jose said himself I guess he has an agenda against Torres. 

I got page not found when I clicked the link.

Did Jose actually say, we couldn't sign Falcao or Cavani because we can't sell Torres & he's on really high wages?

I got page not found when I clicked the link.

Did Jose actually say, we couldn't sign Falcao or Cavani because we can't sell Torres & he's on really high wages?

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/10/jose-mourinho-chelsea-pellegrini-manchester-city

 

 

 

Indeed, while conceding the days of spending record fees, such as the £50m on Fernando Torres, have gone, Mourinho believes Chelsea's stockpiling of young talent over recent seasons has offered them leeway within FFP. Asked about Cavani and Falcao, about whom the Premier League leaders inquired last summer before their lucrative moves to Monaco and Paris St-Germain respectively, he said: "No, we didn't go for them because of transfer fees and salaries. Players are not just about fees but also big wages. Of course there's a certain profile of player we don't go near."

Now where does it say we didn't buy a player because we have Torres?

Now where does it say we didn't buy a player because we have Torres?

 

 

The way Financial Fair Play works to sign someone high profile - we either need to free up our wage bill or sell someone. 

 

Our top eaners are Hazard; Terry; Torres - one oddman and two favorites. 

 

It's already been recorded that Jose doesn't rate Torres especially high - considering his latest joke about having no striker other than the 32 or 35 year old Eto'o and previous comments he has made about our strikers not scoring enough goals. 

Edited March 6, 201412 yr by Las7

Yes I know how FFP works, you're twisting the article to your own ends, I read it as Chelsea will generate a profit by selling younger players & buying players not of the highest profile in order to keep transfer fees & wages down.

Nothing to do with Torres.

Yes I know how FFP works, you're twisting the article to your own ends, I read it as Chelsea will generate a profit by selling younger players & buying players not of the highest profile in order to keep transfer fees & wages down.

Nothing to do with Torres.

 

 

Our top earners have the biggest impact on FFP, that's why we were able to sign Willian for 30 million pounds - his wages are a fraction of what we would need to pay in wages to the likes of Cavani/Falcao. 

 

In the summer there was no way to sign Cavani or Falcao because of FFP - that's what Jose said.

 

Since than we have sold KdB and Mata thus the situation has changed and Jose had aluded that we should expect a striker being signed in the summer. 

Your argument was that we missed out on Ageuro, Falcao & Cavani due to us having Torres, you posted a link claiming Jose had said as much!

The link says nothing of the sort, in fact it just gives an indication of how Chelsea will navigate FFP.

You've then said Jose doesn't rate Torres due to comments made, which may or may not be true, however this has nothing to do with either FFP or us signing (or not) of other players.

Your argument was that we missed out on Ageuro, Falcao & Cavani due to us having Torres, you posted a link claiming Jose had said as much!

The link says nothing of the sort, in fact it just gives an indication of how Chelsea will navigate FFP.

You've then said Jose doesn't rate Torres due to comments made, which may or may not be true, however this has nothing to do with either FFP or us signing (or not) of other players.

 

Do you think it was realistic to sign Torres for £50m in January, then sign Aguero that summer?  Or Falcao the summer after who was directly stating his desire to follow AVB in the Portuguese press?  Do you not think the recent allocation of 50 million pounds to that position had some kind of bearing on why we didn't attempt to sign those players, despite being enormously linked and having ample opportunity?

Do you think it was realistic to sign Torres for £50m in January, then sign Aguero that summer?  Or Falcao the summer after who was directly stating his desire to follow AVB in the Portuguese press?  Do you not think the recent allocation of 50 million pounds to that position had some kind of bearing on why we didn't attempt to sign those players, despite being enormously linked and having ample opportunity?

 

Its clear to anyone with a brain

 

Not to mention, due to his high wages, we now have trouble selling him.

Danny Welbeck has scored more PL goals than any of our strikers lol. edit: wrong thread but yeh still applied here. Just found that startling. 

Edited March 6, 201412 yr by MANoWAR

Do you think it was realistic to sign Torres for £50m in January, then sign Aguero that summer?  Or Falcao the summer after who was directly stating his desire to follow AVB in the Portuguese press?  Do you not think the recent allocation of 50 million pounds to that position had some kind of bearing on why we didn't attempt to sign those players, despite being enormously linked and having ample opportunity?

We were linked heavily with Aguero before we signed Torres, hence my deduction Roman chose Torres.

Would Athletico have sold both Aguero & Falcao in the same transfer window? Unlikely, I would also argue that Falcaos 3rd party owners were waiting for a bigger return on their investment at that stage.

Cavani wasn't on our radar at that stage, by the time he was on the radar PSG were able to offer a better package than us due to multi billionaire owners.

But you're all right it's all Torres fault.

Realised my error re: Falcao & Athletico, I stand by the rest.