Being too young to have ever seen him in action, I've had to go off what i've been told and heard about him in regards to him being the greatest ever. I know he's most famous for winning 3 world cups, and for scoring over 1000 goals in his career, which by itself does make it sound like he is head and shoulders above anyone else to ever play the game.

 

However I was reading about him last week and there are a lot of people who feel his talent has been greatly exaggerated, based on a few things.

 

Firstly his goal scoring record, which apparantley stands at 1280 career goals. However, nearly 500 of these goals were in "unofficial or friendly matches", including matches against factory teams and local teams which would have been greatly inferior to Santos's quality level. If you remove these friendly matches, his goal total at Santos drops from 1088 to 643.

 

Secondly, despite winning three world cup medals, he did not play a major role in all of them. In his 1962 World Cup Win, he only played in two group stage games before picking up an injury, and did not play in the rest of the tournament. In addition, the team that won the 1970 world cup is often referred to as one of the greatest teams of all time, and while Pele was no doubt a massive component of that, he certainly wasn't the sole reason they won the world cup, as opposed to other world cup winning teams that have definitely relied on one star.

 

Thirdly, there wasn't a proper Brazilian national league until the 70's, and the majority of Pele's appearances and goals came in games in the Sao Paulo state league. I suppose our equivilent would be having a league for London based teams, while there would be some other strong teams, there would also be some minor sh*tty teams.

 

Fourthly, the fact that he never played in Europe in a more competitive league. Do you think if he'd been playing in Europe he would have scored anywhere near the amount of goals he has? For all their brilliance, Ronaldo has only scored 292 goals in his career, while Messi has only scored 288. Each of these totals are less than half of Pele's total for Santos, although both still have a lot of years left in them.

 

In conclusion, i'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, really the point of this topic was to see other peoples opinion's on him, because at the same time the articles i've read about him could have been extremely biased the other way and if there's people that actually watched him that can testify to his brilliance, then I may be completely wrong.

 

If you do think he is overrated, who would you say is the best player of all time? Do you think Messi or Ronaldo have the potential to ever be called the greatest ever?

I'm 23 so was too young to be able to see Pele of Maradonna stut their stuff but something that I have heard about Pele is that as coverage of his matches in between world cups was obviously non existent back when he was playing he started to get a mythical status about him that further enhanced his reputation. Also a lot of what us the younger generation see of him is from youtube videos and where it all looks amazing as you say some of the quality of players he is up against jsut can not even begin to compare.

 

I also detest his arrogance these days. When talking about Messi and someone asks him if he could be the Greatest player of all time Pele replies come back to me when he scores 1200 goals and wins three world cups. Not taking into account the huge difference in quality opposition that Messi is up against and the fact that whilst he may not have won any world cups (yet) the quality iin the CL is so Damn high and he has three of those to his name at the tender age of 25. 

 

Then you also factor in that this little Argentine genius has just scored 91 goals in a calendar year (I watched a youtube video of it today where each goal was only shown once and it lasted for 10 minutes for gods sake!!) and the variety of goals he scores not to mention his general all round play and the fact he gets a lot of assists then he will stand head and shoulders above all else when he hangs up his boots.

 

In 20 years time I will consider myself very blessed to have been around when Messi was at his peak.

I think David Beckham has been one of the most overrated players in my lifetime.

A Hollywood star for sure.

Not sure about Pele.

They're very hard to compare. Messi played in a different era to Maradona and Zidane, who played in a different era to Pele, who still played in a different era to the likes of Di Stefano and Puskas. I will go down as saying that Messi is the greatest player that I've ever been able to witness first-hand, however.

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Teritus

Ask loz, he was lucky enough to watch Pele as a 12 year old and through his entire career......

Ask loz, he was lucky enough to watch Pele as a 12 year old and through his entire career......

And constantly said 'The game isn't what it used to be'

watched Pele a few times, you need to understand that he played in a different era and within that era he was a great player and he played in a great national team. IMO If he played today he would be ' very good player' but who are you comparing against as the set up of the teams was different in those days. But I'm sure the likes of geezer. loz and others will have great thoughts and opinions.

Pele - Absolute legend of a player, he definitely isn't overrated. He knows how to perform in big games and he backed it up in both club and international level. Messi is excellent for Barcelona, but I don't think he's maximised his true potential for Argentina.

Maradona - A legend as well and one of the greatest players I've ever seen, but his drug taking and off-field issues resulted in his downfall at the end of his career.

 

I'll tell you who the most overrated player in the world: Javier Mascherano

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Jezz

Pele - Absolute legend of a player, he definitely isn't overrated. He knows how to perform in big games and he backed it up in both club and international level. Messi is excellent for Barcelona, but I don't think he's maximised his true potential for Argentina.

 True, but then again, you could say Pele never maximized his potential in club football. He never played in Europe.

Does it matter if he didn't play in Europe. 589 goals in 605 league games is astonishing, and in those days, many South American players didn't move to Europe, they preferred staying in their home country. The leagues were still very competitive. 

Pele - Absolute legend of a player, he definitely isn't overrated. He knows how to perform in big games and he backed it up in both club and international level. Messi is excellent for Barcelona, but I don't think he's maximised his true potential for Argentina.

 

12 goals in 9 games this year would suggest he's getting there......

12 goals in 9 games this year would suggest he's getting there......

I'll be glad to proven wrong, but how did he go in the 2010 World Cup for instance. I'm not bagging Messi, he's a superb player and one of a kind, but I wouldn't say he's fully reached his potential for Argentina, but maybe the tide is turning and by the time the 2014 World Cup rolls around, he'll be in peak condition. 

Does it matter if he didn't play in Europe. 589 goals in 605 league games is astonishing, and in those days, many South American players didn't move to Europe, they preferred staying in their home country. The leagues were still very competitive. 

It doesn't matter, but like I said, he didn't MAXIMIZE his potential. He never took on the challenge to play in Europe.

Pele was an outstanding player during his era and that is all he can be measured on folks. Much of what he did on the pitch was totally original and has since been copied by countless others effectively making him a pioneer of many of the things we now take for granted in the game. Back then there were very few Brazilians, or indeed South Americans in general who moved to Europe to ply their trade so I don't think this can be held against him - the world was a different place back then. Alongside the likes of di Stefano and Puskas, Pele is definitely up there with the very best of them and deserves the recognition that goes with it.

As far as Pele goes I can only go by what my dad and his mates have to say, and they say he was outstanding, and with all things considered i.e technology, lets not forget they were playing with lumps of concrete and hobnail boots, he was the greatest!

 

I was lucky enough to see George Best once when he was in 40's playing an exhibition match and even then he was head and shoulders above everyone else.

 

The best I saw though was Maradona, he won a world cup single handed, then got Argentina to another final single handed, then take into account what he did for Napoli, which would be like Messi moving to Stoke and winning the league. For those things alone I think he goes down as the greatest.

Fair enough, a lot of people are tough on Messi for his lack of form with the national team, although its easy to forget he's only 25 and surely has at least 2 more world cups in him, and generally world cup's are won by very experienced teams, and the next one will be in his continent, (while Brazil will probably be fielding quite a young team, thinking of the likes of Hulk, Neymar, Oscar, Luiz, Lucas Moura), meaning Argentina should have a good chance.

 

It's interesting though everyone's only talked about Messi. Personally I think as an overall player, Ronaldo is far superior and better well-rounded. I'd love to see Messi play in England or Italy or Germany one day just to see if he can translate to another team/league.

 

 I also detest his arrogance these days. When talking about Messi and someone asks him if he could be the Greatest player of all time Pele replies come back to me when he scores 1200 goals and wins three world cups. Not taking into account the huge difference in quality opposition that Messi is up against and the fact that whilst he may not have won any world cups (yet) the quality iin the CL is so Damn high and he has three of those to his name at the tender age of 25. 

 

yeah this is what got me looking him up to begin with, I think its embarrassing to his legacy that he feels the need to talk down about the greatest players of our generation, and the fact that he's done so probably means he knows Messi will one day be greater than him.

 

But dammit i hate Barcelona with a passion.

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Jonty

I saw Pele many times, albeit on TV, and he was without any doubt one of the best players of all time. His skill was sublime, both in the air and on the ground, he was very strong, and was a natural leader for those players around him. As geezer says, very few South Americans played in Europe in that era, so I don't really understand that argument.

 

In my humble opinion, Pele was head and shoulders above Maradona, he was the more complete player. I never rated Maradona that highly and dislike him intensely - he was a serial cheat, a diver, and a nasty little c*nt in general, even before becoming a druggie. Messi is far closer to taking Pele's crown as 'best ever' than Maradona ever was.

 

And those of you who never saw Pele play, just remember that whatever you read about him is just that writers opinion. People in the sports media sometimes have an agenda, but virtually all of them spout utter sh*te. They have the power to build up a player to legendary status, and they have the power to do the opposite. The vast majority of sports writers have no more credibility than any of us here on this forum. Try and find as many clips of Pele in action as you can, his performances on the pitch cannot lie.

 

There does seem to be a general consensus amongst a lot of younger football fans that players from the distant past were never as good as modern day players. Well, that is utter bollocks. Football back then was very different to the game as we know it now. The tactics and rules were different, tackling was actually encouraged years ago, and the players had to be a lot tougher to survive. The pitches were awful for the most part, whereas today they're like bowling greens. The ball was heavier, the boots were heavier, and the players were heavier

 

 

 

Most overrated players ever, again in my opinion...

 

David Beckham

Wayne Rooney

Zinedine Zidane

Christiano Ronaldo

Michael Owen

Kaka

Dimitar Berbatov

Geoff Hurst

Bobby Charlton

 

sh*t, there's way too many to mention - over to the rest of you...

Taking the last game I saw as a measure of his ability I'd say he was one of the best ever...when you think about the quality of some of the others in the team, his heroic return to the pitch after  some sickening treatment from the opposition went unpunished by a hugely biased referee, the trademark overhead volley and the team ethic he showed to carry on with the game when he could have chosen to abandon it it gos some way to show the difference between the players in those days to the nancy types we have now.

 

There is no way the likes of Lionel Messi or Christiano Ronaldo could have taken the punishement he did in that game and his almost psychic connection with Bobby and Ossie was enough to make heros of each and every member of that team...including the keeper who went on to have a great career as a Boxer.

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Chippy

I'm 23 so was too young to be able to see Pele of Maradonna stut their stuff but something that I have heard about Pele is that as coverage of his matches in between world cups was obviously non existent back when he was playing he started to get a mythical status about him that further enhanced his reputation. Also a lot of what us the younger generation see of him is from youtube videos and where it all looks amazing as you say some of the quality of players he is up against jsut can not even begin to compare.

 

I also detest his arrogance these days. When talking about Messi and someone asks him if he could be the Greatest player of all time Pele replies come back to me when he scores 1200 goals and wins three world cups. Not taking into account the huge difference in quality opposition that Messi is up against and the fact that whilst he may not have won any world cups (yet) the quality iin the CL is so Damn high and he has three of those to his name at the tender age of 25. 

 

Then you also factor in that this little Argentine genius has just scored 91 goals in a calendar year (I watched a youtube video of it today where each goal was only shown once and it lasted for 10 minutes for gods sake!!) and the variety of goals he scores not to mention his general all round play and the fact he gets a lot of assists then he will stand head and shoulders above all else when he hangs up his boots.

 

In 20 years time I will consider myself very blessed to have been around when Messi was at his peak.

I wouldnt be too quick to say hes arragant....He was asked a question and answered factually....I also wouldnt agree with you on the suggestion of quality of players in respect to the quality messi faces....There were players from those days that were real men..Tough footballers who some players nowadays couldnt clean the boots of......This is m.o.o

I saw Pele many times, albeit on TV, and he was without any doubt one of the best players of all time. His skill was sublime, both in the air and on the ground, he was very strong, and was a natural leader for those players around him. As geezer says, very few South Americans played in Europe in that era, so I don't really understand that argument.

 

In my humble opinion, Pele was head and shoulders above Maradona, he was the more complete player. I never rated Maradona that highly and dislike him intensely - he was a serial cheat, a diver, and a nasty little c*nt in general, even before becoming a druggie. Messi is far closer to taking Pele's crown as 'best ever' than Maradona ever was.

 

And those of you who never saw Pele play, just remember that whatever you read about him is just that writers opinion. People in the sports media sometimes have an agenda, but virtually all of them spout utter sh*te. They have the power to build up a player to legendary status, and they have the power to do the opposite. The vast majority of sports writers have no more credibility than any of us here on this forum. Try and find as many clips of Pele in action as you can, his performances on the pitch cannot lie.

 

There does seem to be a general consensus amongst a lot of younger football fans that players from the distant past were never as good as modern day players. Well, that is utter bollocks. Football back then was very different to the game as we know it now. The tactics and rules were different, tackling was actually encouraged years ago, and the players had to be a lot tougher to survive. The pitches were awful for the most part, whereas today they're like bowling greens. The ball was heavier, the boots were heavier, and the players were heavier

 

 

 

Most overrated players ever, again in my opinion...

 

David Beckham

Wayne Rooney

Zinedine Zidane

Christiano Ronaldo

Michael Owen

Kaka

Dimitar Berbatov

Geoff Hurst

Bobby Charlton

 

sh*t, there's way too many to mention - over to the rest of you...

 

Zidane is not overrated in my opinion, I can agree with the rest though. Might want to put Cannavaro in there.

Anyone else think Paul Scholes is vastly overrated? I mean he keeps possession well but that seems to be about the extent of his skills, and hes got to be one of the worst tacklers in EPL history.

Messi is form another planet that's for sure, i am happy i live in a time where i can witness Messi playing football at his best. Pele is a football legend but nowhere near Messi.

 

 

Btw, Wayne Rooney is overrated.

There is no better Pele than Maradona, better is Cannigia than Saviola 

Forgot to mention - Pele was awesome in Escape to Victory ;-)

 

As for Pele v Messi - well they are both as bad as each other actually because neither of them have ever scored against the mighty Chelsea (though Pele only ever played against us once in 1971)

I wouldn't say the most overrated, but he's certainly the most high profile example of an overrated player.

Edited December 23, 201213 yr by Lofty 1905