I think Willian has at times been unlucky, but I now think, as he finds his form, he is being underestimated.

It's not just about goals, it's about creativity as well.

 

Just because he doesn't play the final pass to get the assist, doesn't make him not creative...

 

Willian has 3 assists in the league this season, Eriksen has 2.

Just because he doesn't play the final pass to get the assist, doesn't make him not creative...

Willian has 3 assists in the league this season, Eriksen has 2.

He also has 9 goals this season and managed 8 assists last season.

And he's still only 22. Let's put his stats in context.

I'm not arguing he's not atop player, I'm making the point that a player can be creative without having loads of assists.

I'm not arguing he's not atop player, I'm making the point that a player can be creative without having loads of assists.

It might suggest he's being asked to take more shots this season and not look to rack up the assists. Not saying that's the case but it's over explanation.

Going back to Willian the contention is that he's not actually that great creatively and he never has been.

It might suggest he's being asked to take more shots this season and not look to rack up the assists. Not saying that's the case but it's over explanation.

Going back to Willian the contention is that he's not actually that great creatively and he never has been.

 

If that's how far you're willing to go to play down everything about Willian, then I'm done. Utterly ridiculous.

If that's how far you're willing to go to play down everything about Willian, then I'm done. Utterly ridiculous.

The bolded bit wasn't even about Willian so not sure quite what got your knickers in a twist there.

As it is, Eriksen had upped his number of shots per game and maintained a similar number of key passes per game.

I know it's not about Willian... It's 'Eriksen might have fewer assists than Willian this season because he's been told not to "rack up the assists"'.

 

Do you take every opportunity to knock him at matches?

I know it's not about Willian... It's 'Eriksen might have fewer assists than Willian this season because he's been told not to "rack up the assists"'.

 

Do you take every opportunity to knock him at matches?

 

No I cheer him on. I also don't take every opportunity to knock him on the interwebs either. You bought up Eriksen and whilst his assist count is down, his goals scored is up whilst the number of key passes he plays has stayed the same.

 

A lot of stats talk but you're the one who brought them up in the first place and when it got even slightly more than a superficial analysis of his stats you threw your toys out of the pram.

 

Basically if you want to discuss stats then do, but don't half-arsedly use them then get uppity when someone decides to place them in context and examine in even the most cursory manner, ok? 

No I cheer him on. I also don't take every opportunity to knock him on the interwebs either. You bought up Eriksen and whilst his assist count is down, his goals scored is up whilst the number of key passes he plays has stayed the same.

 

A lot of stats talk but you're the one who brought them up in the first place and when it got even slightly more than a superficial analysis of his stats you threw your toys out of the pram.

 

Basically if you want to discuss stats then do, but don't half-arsedly use them then get uppity when someone decides to place them in context and examine in even the most cursory manner, ok? 

 

Haha. Let's leave it there before it gets nasty. I love Willian, you think we could do better.

 

We're never going to agree so what's the point in arguing. We're supposed to be supporting the same team anyway.

30 million quid for a bloke who to use a football pundits expression '' Put's in a shift''. He's a very average player who runs about a lot yawn tracks back does a lot for the team etc. He was bought for his flair which i've seen very little of and because Danny v neck jumper says he played well for 30 million quid it's about bloody time.

For the love of God 

For the love of God 

I'm an atheist myself but it's always nice to see someone spreading the word alleluia

Praise Allah

Praise Allah

Praise Allah isn't he on loan to Vitesse Arnhem?

Hmm, as a devout atheist, I probably could have chosen my words better there.

I am an away season ticket holder who has been to every game this season away from Stamford Bridge where I boycotted after being told to sit down and threatened to be evicted by a steward when being abused by a rival fan in the Shed Lower in 2009.

Along with 'Top Of The League' 'We're the only team in London to win the European Cup' the Willian song is favoured by us all not only because he chose us over Tottenham but by the way he gives 100 per cent every game, closes down defenders and wins the ball on countless occasions to spring us into attack and uses his close control to take out 3 players at a time to create space for Fabregas and Hazard to create chances.

Without question every one us us on away trips would have Willian as one of our top five performers this season, all he lacks is shooting accuracy, that goal at Norwich probably sent many into a false sense of security. He needs extra hours like Lampard used to on the training pitch and make no mistake his name will be cemented in our history forever.

To Jose he brings more to the table as a team player than Mata, Van Gaal is starting to see things clearer now too in that respect.

Negative just isn't in Willian's vocabulary so why so many negative points on this forum?

 

Welcome to the forum, great point.

 

Nice screenname btw. Oh she had a broken nose...

Edited February 9, 201511 yr by Celery1989

I don't know why it should matter how much he cost - tbh I'd forgotten how much it was because it wasn't my money.  But it's whether he is  a good player for the team.  And I think he is personally.  

Hmm, as a devout atheist, I probably could have chosen my words better there.

There is only one true path my son Fulham Road to Stamford Bridge

Basically if you want to discuss stats then do, but don't half-arsedly use them then get uppity when someone decides to place them in context and examine in even the most cursory manner, ok? 

 

My goodness gracious me.

 

Forgive me for intervening on Adam's behalf but you haven't placed those stats in context at all.

 

Context means the whole picture, it doesn't just mean the little bit of the picture that you want to point out.

 

Eriksen is a player I rate but he plays centrally and doesn't have to do half the donkey work of Willian.

 

Surely you can make your point without resorting to spin?

Oh look, a new Groundhog Day thread! How exciting!

No, it's wrong to ignore what Willian contributes to the team as a unit.

This examination of players as individuals with no appreciation that ultimately they have to function as a component in something greater is a blight on football discourse- emblematic of a stats obsessed top trumps mentality.

Juan mata, for example, is hands down a better player than Willian. In our team Willian makes us a better side than mata did. THAT is what some people are unable to comprehend and it gets boring having to hold their hands week after week explaining why that is.

Jose makes errors. Every manager does. But he has never, and will never, persist with his mistakes. When he makes errors he doesn't repeat them. His signing of salah was an error. That's why he didn't play much and has now gone.

Frankly anyone who thinks he has made an error with Willian, a player vitally important to the structure and style of the team, who gets picked week in, week out fundamentally does not understand football beyond a superficial level in my view.

 

I agree with your post, I also like Willian I think he plays an important role in the team and I want him to stay here.

 

All he needs is someone to rotate with I think he has gotten too much game time that has been my issue. Schurrle was a talented player, I don't think he got enough game time and to be honest I don't know what was going on, he was under performing not helping himself yes, but there was times when we needed his mentality on the field. He is a lot more  driven than Willian, he is a born matchwinner.

 

We have Cuadrado now so hopefully they will rotate on that right side more.

 

Our argument here might have been about the wrong thing, I am certainly not against Willian playing, I don't think we should sell him at all. However I don't agree with his playing time, not for a player who doesn't get a decent amount of goals and assists, we need more variety and I'll say it again I'm hoping Cuadrado really brings that since it obviously wasn't working with Schurrle and Salah.

Edited February 10, 201511 yr by Slawth

I don't know why it should matter how much he cost - tbh I'd forgotten how much it was because it wasn't my money.  But it's whether he is  a good player for the team.  And I think he is personally.  

If it was an era where FFP doesn't mean sh*t.. I wouldn't have cared about the money as well.

 

Eriksen is a player I rate but he plays centrally

 

 

Exactly....except for when he plays on the left, and occasionally the right (3 goals in 7 games on the left apparently). At this point I'm not even sure why Eriksen was brought up but I'd say the same thing I say about Oscar. He's still a young player and inconsistency is going to exist.

 

I don't know why it should matter how much he cost - tbh I'd forgotten how much it was because it wasn't my money.  But it's whether he is  a good player for the team.  And I think he is personally.  

 

Because managing resources is very much part of the game now. Putting a certain amount of money into one player means you can't in others, so that player has to contribute as much as possible.

The points being made about FFP are kind of irelevent because we have covered our selves in this regard by ofloading the players that management feel don't add to our cause.

 

That Cause is of course winning the league and maybe the CL 

 

When buying Willian are management identified him as a player who could do a job within a team trying to the win the league. 

 

Since then management have shipped out a few of the alternative options, largely because they don't tick the boxes.

 

Willian ticks those boxes. 

 

Those boxes are designed to help us win the league. So far it's working...

 

Would we be 7 points clear with Mata or Andre playing the games willian has this season, I don't know for sure.. as individuals they would probably have more goals but that doesn't mean the team would have more points. 

 

I'm sure given the option, management would like to combine Willian's strenghts with the other two mentioned... Unfortunalty this is not Dragoon Ball Z and in any event that never worked out to well.

 

So management have weighed it and found that over the course of a full season Willian's contribution to the team is more important then the goals that Mata and Andre would give us and at this. And thats why the other two have been moved on. ....

 

And so far, management are proving to be correct, now as for the value of the player. I personally don't know what Jose and the team where looking for in that player, it seem's they where after some one of Willian's attributes.. to fufile a role in a team, in a sport that requires the whole team to meat a goal and plan. So I'm not about to start telling our management team what value they should be putting on a player who does such an effective job for us and clearly the other options where incapable of doing so... If we do go on to win the league it goes to show that the decisions made my management were correct, both in player selection and balancing the books. And following this logic, which is infact very logical, Willian is then worth what we paid for him because he has helped us fulfill the objective laid out 

 

 

More over KDB went for 25 million euros - which at worst exchange rate is 18 million pounds (note that at worst)