My biggest problem with Oscar & to a lesser extent Willian is their tactical awareness, when Hazard is on the ball its like he has eyes in the back of his head, yet Willian and Oscar both seem to get their pocket picked way to easily and far too often, even Costa loses the ball alot, but he is a striker with 4 defenders around him all day. Matic can power out of trouble, and Rambo uses his pace well to escape, & Fabregas is perfect, near untouchable in possession. I think once Oscar and Willian learn to be aware of their surroundings 360 degrees at all times we will see a vast improvement in both, also whoever mentioned Willian's reluctance to take on defenders is spot on, it amazes me because the rare times he does drive past a left back he normally is successful, just needs to back himself more, he is an amazing dribbler and very technical.

100%. But Schurrle and Salah pale in comparison to Oscar and Willian with regards to their awareness. That's why they need to leave. The gap is just too big, and is causing huge inconsistencies in our play if we lose any of the starting midfielders.

On Willian, I find myself almost never criticising his performances because I always think about what he's sacrificing for the team. He and Oscar are similar and both should be playing number 10. If Jose used Oscar on the right instead, I think fans would criticise him more than Willian. Oscar was sacrificed when Mata was here and the same now with Willian. Expectations need to be adjusted.

I think you will find we are signing Andre's replacement, a player you where quite sure would make his way back after he recovered from illness... he hasn't, this is because it was clear to any one with two eyes in there head that Jose didn't trust him. If you don't have two eyes, you also can get by with two ears because Jose pretty much blamed him for the draw at city, of course there was the back handed compliment as well... but every one knows how jose hates bad defending, much more then he hates an inability to finish. 

 

As for thinking he will end up the bench permanently, I'll wait and see how the new guy settles in before making sweeping statements. I'd hazard a guess few on the forum have watched him play for a full season. Additionally you may see Willian move centrally in some games and Oscar sitting on the bench. 

 

Final food for thought... you say that he only play's well when other do, I'd say they play well BECAUSE of Willian

 

If you actually look at the profile of the players, Cuadrado and Willian are very similar in terms of what they offer on that right hand side. Workrate, defensive solidity, pace are all attributes they both bring to the table but Cuadrado has that desire to go forward with more directness.

 

If I was looking for the greatness number of options for my squad then I'd include Schurrle who has that rare ability to pop up with a contribution at key moments. I was at the match against Arsenal when he had a mare and I was calling for him to be subbed but I simply don't think he's been given the chances he should've been.

 

Now he's subject to an offer that it's hard to say no to and let's face it, there isn't a top side in Europe who would stump up £30 million for Willian so there's really no option.

 

I also said 'he may well fulfil a squad role for us' which isn't a sweeping statement. 

 

Your final point is interesting, but I can't point to matches where Hazard or Oscar has stepped up and Willian has been unexceptional. Their ability to dictate a game isn't contingent on him 'enabling' them. Can you name a game where Willian has been exceptional and those around him haven't?

 

At the end of the day, we all want what's best for the team. I just think this is another Mikel situation where some people defend him, then become entrenched in their views right up until the point we sign his replacement in the January transfer window and then they go a little quiet. I wonder if that will happen again.

100%. But Schurrle and Salah pale in comparison to Oscar and Willian with regards to their awareness. That's why they need to leave. The gap is just too big, and is causing huge inconsistencies in our play if we lose any of the starting midfielders.

On Willian, I find myself almost never criticising his performances because I always think about what he's sacrificing for the team. He and Oscar are similar and both should be playing number 10. If Jose used Oscar on the right instead, I think fans would criticise him more than Willian. Oscar was sacrificed when Mata was here and the same now with Willian. Expectations need to be adjusted.

 

What exactly does Willian sacrifice? He's never in his entire career shown a particular aptitude for creativity or goalscoring on a consistent basis so I'm not sure what he loses by being on the right wing. The guy never got into double digits for goals when playing in a more central role in the Ukrainian league, and his drop-off in goals is probably what you'd expect from a move to a better league.

 

 

My biggest problem with Oscar & to a lesser extent Willian is their tactical awareness, when Hazard is on the ball its like he has eyes in the back of his head, yet Willian and Oscar both seem to get their pocket picked way to easily and far too often, even Costa loses the ball alot, but he is a striker with 4 defenders around him all day. Matic can power out of trouble, and Rambo uses his pace well to escape, & Fabregas is perfect, near untouchable in possession. I think once Oscar and Willian learn to be aware of their surroundings 360 degrees at all times we will see a vast improvement in both, also whoever mentioned Willian's reluctance to take on defenders is spot on, it amazes me because the rare times he does drive past a left back he normally is successful, just needs to back himself more, he is an amazing dribbler and very technical.

 

I always get the feeling that he's not quite as fast as he appears. He never seems to go on the outside of a defender, so cuts inside which narrows the pitch and allows the defenders to close tighter on players like Oscar and Hazard. That's what I think we'll get in Cuadrado, a real threat on the right-hand side.

 

It'll keep defenders honest and give Hazard maybe a bit more room to do his thing.

For me if Cuadrado is signed he will probably end up making that right wing spot his, where he can take advantage of 1 on 1 situations better than Willian.  

 

I believe the one that has to be most worried is probably Oscar.  From what i've seen of Willian lately he seems to be playing better in a more central role. I think the Cuadrado signing will be great for competition and hopefully Chelsea will benefit from this.

My biggest problem with Oscar & to a lesser extent Willian is their tactical awareness, when Hazard is on the ball its like he has eyes in the back of his head, yet Willian and Oscar both seem to get their pocket picked way to easily and far too often, even Costa loses the ball alot, but he is a striker with 4 defenders around him all day. Matic can power out of trouble, and Rambo uses his pace well to escape, & Fabregas is perfect, near untouchable in possession. I think once Oscar and Willian learn to be aware of their surroundings 360 degrees at all times we will see a vast improvement in both, also whoever mentioned Willian's reluctance to take on defenders is spot on, it amazes me because the rare times he does drive past a left back he normally is successful, just needs to back himself more, he is an amazing dribbler and very technical.

 

Oscar is definitely the biggest culprit when it comes to losing the ball. Which is even worse because he isn't really tasked with taking on players like Hazard and Willian. It comes down to a lack of awareness as you say, but also a lack of strength for me. He still looks as scrawny as when he came here. 

 

But I'm not worried that he will improve. The player I look to is Lucas Leiva at Liverpool who is not exactly a like for like comparison I admit. Another young Brazilian who came to this league at a young age, was too scrawny to play in midfield, and struggled for a good few seasons before going on to win their player of the season. Oscar for me has the attitude and work ethic to keep improving and I would expect him to be one of our best players in a few years.

We only need some more end product from me and I'd say he is a good buy. Hopefully the arrival of Cuadrado livens him up and we get to see him shoot more.

What exactly does Willian sacrifice? He's never in his entire career shown a particular aptitude for creativity or goalscoring on a consistent basis so I'm not sure what he loses by being on the right wing. The guy never got into double digits for goals when playing in a more central role in the Ukrainian league, and his drop-off in goals is probably what you'd expect from a move to a better league.

Positional sacrifice is a massive adjustment. Prior to Chelsea he has played most of his professional career as a drifter/in a free role. He had the kind of freedom Mata enjoyed. But as Jose said last season when Sky compared Mata and Oscar - You cannot compare a no.10 with someone who plays wide on the right and must chase the fullback. He does look more creative down the middle. And his stats aren't terrible if you consider what likes of Silva and Iniesta have produced.

My prediction is that initially Cuadrado will rotate predominantly with Willian but eventually Willian will replace Oscar as our regular no.10.

My prediction is that initially Cuadrado will rotate predominantly with Willian but eventually Willian will replace Oscar as our regular no.10.

 

Interesting prediction, what do you see Oscar's role going forward?

 

He's unlikely to be sold having just signed a 5 year extension this season, I can't see him being 2nd choice, do you think he would be playing elsewhere? 

Positional sacrifice is a massive adjustment. Prior to Chelsea he has played most of his professional career as a drifter/in a free role. He had the kind of freedom Mata enjoyed. But as Jose said last season when Sky compared Mata and Oscar - You cannot compare a no.10 with someone who plays wide on the right and must chase the fullback. He does look more creative down the middle. And his stats aren't terrible if you consider what likes of Silva and Iniesta have produced.

My prediction is that initially Cuadrado will rotate predominantly with Willian but eventually Willian will replace Oscar as our regular no.10.

 

Not really a fair comparison with Iniesta and I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up, but his stats pale in comparison to Silva even though he's hardly a box filler. This notion that he's radically changed since coming to this club is a bit strange. He's always been a fairly average player, which is why he was in the Ukraine.

 

I don't know if he'll replace Oscar but I think it would be a waste. Oscar has improved year on year, gets important goals and has formed a nice partnership with Matic and Fabregas. To me the next step in developing the midfield is bringing through young blood to grow, not looking to put a guy who will be 27 come the start of next season in there. Willian's strength will be his ability to play across all three attacking midfield positions providing incisive passing, direct pacy dribbling and a goal threat from deep.....or something.

Interesting prediction, what do you see Oscar's role going forward?

 

He's unlikely to be sold having just signed a 5 year extension this season, I can't see him being 2nd choice, do you think he would be playing elsewhere? 

 

Wouldn't Oscar be expected to continue the progress he's made in each of his year's at the club and become an integral part of the side for the next 5 years?

Wouldn't Oscar be expected to continue the progress he's made in each of his year's at the club and become an integral part of the side for the next 5 years?

 

I'm obviously a big fan of Oscar's and personally think he is doing just fine. 

 

End of the day when Lampard signed for Chelsea as a 23 year old there was more than a few eyebrows raised and many, including Chelsea fans questioned if he had the required ability to play for Chelsea. 

 

Frank, obviously, rapidly improved as a player at Chelsea after a fairly indifferent first season at the club. 

 

Oscar is now 23 himself and what's to say that he won't continue to grow and improve as a player the same way that Frank did? 

 

I'm not suggesting that he will become as good of a player that Frank did but I certainly feel it's too early to write him off and I think he's going to continue to develop into a wonderful talent. 

I'm obviously a big fan of Oscar's and personally think he is doing just fine. 

 

End of the day when Lampard signed for Chelsea as a 23 year old there was more than a few eyebrows raised and many, including Chelsea fans questioned if he had the required ability to play for Chelsea. 

 

Frank, obviously, rapidly improved as a player at Chelsea after a fairly indifferent first season at the club. 

 

Oscar is now 23 himself and what's to say that he won't continue to grow and improve as a player the same way that Frank did? 

 

I'm not suggesting that he will become as good of a player that Frank did but I certainly feel it's too early to write him off and I think he's going to continue to develop into a wonderful talent. 

 

Think you've pretty much said exactly what I would've. Lamps was viewed as inconsistent at Oscar's age but he kicked on. Oscar is arguably better at the same age but that dramatic improvement is unlikely. I can see Jose sticking by him though, simply because there's not anything better out there.

Drogba was a late bloomer, Suarez at age 24 was completely different from Suarez at age 25 and onwards.

 

Oscar is good at his age but you can't predict potential, you can compare him with Lampard but they are different players, late bloomers aren't exactly a common species are they.

 

Oscar will obviously improve but whether he will become a world class player or not is definitely something we can't just predict like that.

Not really a fair comparison with Iniesta and I'm not sure why it keeps getting brought up, but his stats pale in comparison to Silva even though he's hardly a box filler. This notion that he's radically changed since coming to this club is a bit strange. He's always been a fairly average player, which is why he was in the Ukraine.

I don't know if he'll replace Oscar but I think it would be a waste. Oscar has improved year on year, gets important goals and has formed a nice partnership with Matic and Fabregas. To me the next step in developing the midfield is bringing through young blood to grow, not looking to put a guy who will be 27 come the start of next season in there. Willian's strength will be his ability to play across all three attacking midfield positions providing incisive passing, direct pacy dribbling and a goal threat from deep.....or something.

The quality of the player is a matter of debate/opinion, I certainly wouldn't say he's average and I think he will improve as well. The player hasn't changed radically, but his position and what's demanded of him has changed. Juan Mata under Jose was the same player but looked a shadow of himself when placed in a different system and asked to perform other tasks.

Yeah Oscar has done well, no argument. And he is a favourite of mine. But within the short-term (6-12 months) I just think Willian will pip him to the position with Cuadrado making the right position his own. If Oscar continues to improve then ultimately he'll come out on top.

Interesting prediction, what do you see Oscar's role going forward?

He's unlikely to be sold having just signed a 5 year extension this season, I can't see him being 2nd choice, do you think he would be playing elsewhere?

Can't see him playing regularly in another position but he has a fight on his hands, which can only be good for the club. I absolutely want him to stay and improve at the club. But as I've said above, in the short term I feel Willian will just pip him for a regular spot.

He would never be 2nd choice and receive the same number of minutes as Schurrle and Salah. He's too good to be ignored.

Yeah Oscar has done well, no argument. And he is a favourite of mine. But within the short-term (6-12 months) I just think Willian will pip him to the position with Cuadrado making the right position his own. If Oscar continues to improve then ultimately he'll come out on top.

 

We'd miss Oscar's goals, playmaking ability and defensive contribution. 

I just think this is another Mikel situation where some people defend him, then become entrenched in their views right up until the point we sign his replacement in the January transfer window and then they go a little quiet. I wonder if that will happen again.

 

Only took nearly 8 years, around 300 appearances and many medals for you to finally be able to say you were right all along!

Only took nearly 8 years, around 300 appearances and many medals for you to finally be able to say you were right all along!

And how many managers as well? 7?

Jose replaced him and still has his job. Coincidence?

Blaming that on Mikel says more about you than him, considering Jose himself is one of those 7.

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by Stim

Stim, are you saying that Matic hasn't been a huge upgrade on Mikel? How many league titles did we win after Jose left? (no, I'm not blaming it on Mikel)

 

Do you think we would be leading the league right now if Mikel was the starter instead of Matic?

That's not my point at all, just saying that people were entrenched in their views right until we signed a replacement in Jan is misleading at best. It's not like Willian at all who has been here a season and a half. This is a guy who has been here like 9 years and was replaced by matic 8 years in which Blue Daze is basking in smug victory over. And even on top of that Mikel made 36 appearances last season. Not so much replaced as had his role changed.

 

Not the same at all. Just more attempts at Mikel cheap shots. Everyone went a little quiet because they are tired of repeating themselves over and over because you just get the same old sh*t thrown back at you time and time again.

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by Stim

But he was right wasn't he? Mikel was replaced by a better player in a vital position, and we are a much better team for it. The fact that it took it took 8 years or 7 managers or Jose to come back doesn't really matter. We as a club have done a lot of nonsensical things. Mikel has been and will remain a good squad player and nothing more. 

 

Willian though is different for me and I don't see him as someone who needs to be replaced. Can we be better team if we replaced him with a better player? Yes, but that would be true of every player.

I think it was Chippy who made the point earlier; You can find many players who are upgrades on Willian in terms of Skill level, but how many will be able to carry out his role as Jose would like - an insane amount of selfless dog-work on top of their attacking output?

If he added some goals to his play and was just a little better in the final third, I would have zero qualms against Willian.

If he can replicate his first half performance vs City more frequently, I can see him make that central role his over Oscar.

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by GhostOfDembaPast

Blaming that on Mikel says more about you than him, considering Jose himself is one of those 7.

 

Maybe I should've made it clearer that it was light-hearted.

 

That's not my point at all, just saying that people were entrenched in their views right until we signed a replacement in Jan is misleading at best. It's not like Willian at all who has been here a season and a half. This is a guy who has been here like 9 years and was replaced by matic 8 years in which Blue Daze is basking in smug victory over. And even on top of that Mikel made 36 appearances last season. Not so much replaced as had his role changed.

 

 

True he made 36 appearances - how many of those were starts in midfield after the signing of Matic?

difficult to see how he might fit in. Initially I think he will come on as a sub for Willian and possibly get some starts against teams with packed defences. In the long run through I expect to see him start most games on that right side. Willian is a versatile player and can be a very useful squad player, covering almost every spot in midfield (apart from dm). Can't wait for the Aston villa game, they are in terrible form, perfect game for him to make his debut.