IMO the only think truly wrong with Roman is he expects trophies EVERY year. Strange eh?

 

He is so focussed on winning in the short term he forgets that actually building more organically has the ability to give a platform for sustained success. 

 

How can we develp youth when every single game is a must win? What manager is going to take a chance on youth when it is clear, 2nd place is a failure and you'll lose your job? We have had several managers who may not have been perfect but they had talent and should have been given the time to mould a squad, AvB is the one who really sticks out for me. Was told to reinvent the squad, change the play style and was ousted by the players of whom he was trying to transition from. Short term success was the result at a cost. Mourinho, the first sign of trouble was booted. Ancelotti played THE best football Chelsea have ever played yet was booted after a bad November.

 

Its part of the reason we have Emenalo from the start, he controls the club's incoming and outgoings, the manager is there to coach the first team. He is the consitency and the managers are replaceable. Yet he has bought first team players patently not suited to the play style of the managers we've had. Since when has Mourinho EVER played traditional wingers? He likes wingers to cut in and play narrower, always has. So why buy Salah or Cuadrado? ME either chose the wrong players or the wrong type of manager.

 

I would like to see a change in philosophy which will see the Manager given complete control of first team affairs and the freedom to lose matches without it being his head every single game. 

 

Other than that though, Roman is probably the 2nd best owner in the PL elite clubs. What would we prefer FSG no money, the Glazers rinsing every penny out the club or Usmanov rinsing the fans whilst maintaining 4th?

 

A few years ago, I would have agreed with every word of that. 

 

But I actually don't know if Roman was determined to win a trophy this season. Look at every single thing they say you should do when you win the league - you have to buy a couple of top-class players to create competition in the squad and ward off complacency. You have to be better, stronger. You have to set your sights on Europe next, where we were completely outclassed by PSG with 10 men.

 

The club did none of that.

 

We strengthened a direct rival by selling them Cech.

 

We lost experienced squad members (Drogba, Luis) and replaced them with worse players (Falcao, Baba), or at best like for like (Pedro for Cuadrado).

 

We didn't add a single extra player to the squad besides Papy Djilobodgi.

 

If you acknowledge that there were issues in the second-half of last season and that we needed strengthening, I don't think you can find a single act that the club made that suggested they had any ambition to retain the title or progress further in Europe.

Edited February 3, 201610 yr by ShedEnder91

Disarray - having no organisation, untidy, state of undress. Is Chelsea in a state of disarray? Clearly not!

Group dynamics suggests the club is fairing well enough given the variables. Like any dynamic involving humans there are ups and downs. The pursuit of perfection could only ever be achieved within a fantasy, possibly technological, realm.

Like many things in life, one takes the rough with the smooth; joy and appreciation of the good times becomes a store of optimism, and fuels loyalty, for the down times.

In other words, get real.

The club is in a one off dissaray down to THE ADVISORS that Roman uses. He should use his own mind to get things sorted. Dunno though. may find many people hanging from a bridge on the thames.Seriously i worry about our scene of having cheaper oil prices. Great for us but it ll have a big effect on guys/ oligarchs like Roman

ShedEnder

Hiring Jose wasn't the problem. He is and was a great manager and I was glad to have him back. Unfortunately he self destructed and went on like a tyrant which damaged the club. I don't regret Jose's appointment but I regret some of his critical decisions whilst being here.

ShedEnder

Hiring Jose wasn't the problem. He is and was a great manager and I was glad to have him back. Unfortunately he self destructed and went on like a tyrant which damaged the club. I don't regret Jose's appointment but I regret some of his critical decisions whilst being here.

 

Jose is a great coach, but the club laid the groundwork for a different style of football. They were targeting Pep and spent years acquiring players who fit that style, then hired a coach who is almost the complete opposite. That is the very definition of middled corporate thinking and despite that he won the league whilst having a net spend less than his competitor's in that time.

 

The reticence to criticise the man who runs the club (a temporary custodian) is surprising in some ways. I don't think money alone is enough to absolve people of their share of the blame.

Edited February 3, 201610 yr by ShedEnder91

Jose is a great coach, but the club laid the groundwork for a different style of football. They were targeting Pep and spent years acquiring players who fit that style, then hired a coach who is almost the complete opposite. That is the very definition of middled corporate thinking and despite that he won the league whilst having a net spend less than his competitor's in that time.

 

The reticence to criticise the man who runs the club (a temporary custodian) is surprising in some ways. I don't think money alone is enough to absolve people of their share of the blame.

 

When JM was trying to get back the chelsea job, he openly said about how refined he had become after all those years of experience and made a claim to adapt his style into more attacking one and also integrating youth, all that sugarcoating coming from someone that many chelsea associate would call a legend, you could try to understand the nostalgia behind that appointment..  He really had a superb record with us before his homecoming so really, like I said, hard to blame roman especially after we have factored all those points and what he's done for us.. 

Please can someone change this thread title, it's embarrassing. A suggestion, 'Is the club in disarray? If so who is to blame and what is the evidence?'

To the outside we must look like a bunch of ungrateful, spoilt, whingers.

That's a great example I think, because they made a lot of changes to their squad and spent a lot of money, but the point is that they had established leaders on the board. I think it would have still been Hoeneß in charge then as he had been for quite a while, under the person you mentioned (Beckenbauer) and Remmenigge. Those are people who not only understand football, but understand the club they're representing.

 

And they've continued that by appointing people like Sammer who are football men through and through. This was a man who won the Bunedesliga as a player, had over 50 caps for Germany, won the Bundesliga with Dortmund as a coach and was appointed Technical Director of the German national team laying the foundation for their World Cup success under Low.

 

That is the standard they set for themselves in that role. We're just happy to appoint someone like Emenalo and that's why things will not change.

 

another example is barcelona, they were midtable and their fortune started to change only when beckham opted for madrid instead of them which prompted them to get ronaldinho as alternative and the rest is history.. 

 

if you want to focus on 'knowledgeable' board member, well, those beckenbaur, bobby charlton, dalglish, ferguson of this world is not really 100% insurance, they couldn't prevent their respective club languishing in midtable at some point in this life.. 

 

Considering we have always finished in the top 3 under roman era bar the CL triumph season and done it without the so called 'knowledgeable' board member, roman done quite all right.. 

 

The most important is the player, we got that one right, others won't matter much.. The success of the club is very much depending on the quality players that represent the club, others like manager, board members are just secondary role

When JM was trying to get back the chelsea job, he openly said about how refined he had become after all those years of experience and made a claim to adapt his style into more attacking one and also integrating youth, all that sugarcoating coming from someone that many chelsea associate would call a legend, you could try to understand the nostalgia behind that appointment..  He really had a superb record with us before his homecoming so really, like I said, hard to blame roman especially after we have factored all those points and what he's done for us.. 

 

I was happy for Jose to come back because I never wanted us to become some pseudo-Barca team. I wanted us to return to that hard-nosed, pragmatic team that he created in 2005 where we'd overpower teams with players like Didier and Essien then move it to players like Duffer, Cole and Robben. This notion that Jose could change his entire philosophy of football was something I don't think anyone thought was likely and if he was hired on that premise then once again the finger of blame needs to be pointed at the person hiring him.

another example is barcelona, they were midtable and their fortune started to change only when beckham opted for madrid instead of them which prompted them to get ronaldinho as alternative and the rest is history.. 

 

if you want to focus on 'knowledgeable' board member, well, those beckenbaur, bobby charlton, dalglish, ferguson of this world is not really 100% insurance, they couldn't prevent their respective club languishing in midtable at some point in this life.. 

 

Considering we have always finished in the top 3 under roman era bar the CL triumph season and done it without the so called 'knowledgeable' board member, roman done quite all right.. 

 

The most important is the player, we got that one right, others won't matter much.. The success of the club is very much depending on the quality players that represent the club, others like manager, board members are just secondary role

 

That's not the whole story with Barca. The primary instigator would have been Cruyff and the establishment of a Dutch-style of play with it's roots in La Masia. Then under the stewardship of Laporta, Begerestein and Soriano (apologies for any misspellings) you have the hiring of Rijkaard and then Gurdiola, with players being brought through Barcelona B and also signed to play a very specific type of football.

 

That's what City have tried to copy and time will tell of the success of such a process.

 

Roman has achieved success in spite of his advisors I believe. JT and Lamps were already here and then Jose built one of the all-time great teams with a spine of Cech, JT, Maka, Lamps and Didier, then added to it with Essien, Ballack etc.

 

That team was so great that the spine of it would carry us through the Ancelotti-era and onto Munich.

 

But now we're losing the last piece of that and we haven't replaced it and for the first time under his ownership, we don't have the buying power to paper over the cracks.

 

I think he had an idea of what he wanted but people like Grant and Emenalo simply didn't have the vision, experience or expertise to carry it out. What he needs to do this summer is start afresh with a new team running the club, be straight with the fans about what the finances will be like whilst the stadium is being rebuilt and temper his and our expectations. 

 

We will give him time but he needs to have a clear plan of what the future is of this club and then get the best people to achieve that.

That's not the whole story with Barca. The primary instigator would have been Cruyff and the establishment of a Dutch-style of play with it's roots in La Masia. Then under the stewardship of Laporta, Begerestein and Soriano (apologies for any misspellings) you have the hiring of Rijkaard and then Gurdiola, with players being brought through Barcelona B and also signed to play a very specific type of football.

 

That's what City have tried to copy and time will tell of the success of such a process.

 

Roman has achieved success in spite of his advisors I believe. JT and Lamps were already here and then Jose built one of the all-time great teams with a spine of Cech, JT, Maka, Lamps and Didier, then added to it with Essien, Ballack etc.

 

That team was so great that the spine of it would carry us through the Ancelotti-era and onto Munich.

 

But now we're losing the last piece of that and we haven't replaced it and for the first time under his ownership, we don't have the buying power to paper over the cracks.

 

I think he had an idea of what he wanted but people like Grant and Emenalo simply didn't have the vision, experience or expertise to carry it out. What he needs to do this summer is start afresh with a new team running the club, be straight with the fans about what the finances will be like whilst the stadium is being rebuilt and temper his and our expectations. 

 

We will give him time but he needs to have a clear plan of what the future is of this club and then get the best people to achieve that.

 

In those circumstances I don't see why we should wait around getting gloomier by the minute. Me, I'm ready to storm the Bridge as soon as you think the time is right. No buying power you say? I blame the Chinese.

In those circumstances I don't see why we should wait around getting gloomier by the minute. Me, I'm ready to storm the Bridge as soon as you think the time is right. 

 

 

A few more performances like tonight and it could be soon. 

For F* sake, how much has Roman done for Chelsea since he took over? Just because we had a sh1t season, it's down to him? Talk about bite the hand that feeds you. 

 

He hired some ordinary advisors, who let the club down. However he got more right then wrong judging by the results on/off the field in the last decade.  The Jose supporters really need to calm down, he made more mistakes this season more than Roman or his advisors.

For F* sake, how much has Roman done for Chelsea since he took over? Just because we had a sh1t season, it's down to him? Talk about bite the hand that feeds you. 

 

He hired some ordinary advisors, who let the club down. However he got more right then wrong judging by the results on/off the field in the last decade.  The Jose supporters really need to calm down, he made more mistakes this season more than Roman or his advisors.

 

I get the point that Roman has invested a lot in the club, but isn't that analogy back to front. We're the hand that feeds the club aren't we?

When Roman purchased the club Chelsea were in a bad place financially. Legends like frank and John would have been sold and the club would probably have won nothing.

Jose is a great coach, but the club laid the groundwork for a different style of football. They were targeting Pep and spent years acquiring players who fit that style, then hired a coach who is almost the complete opposite. That is the very definition of middled corporate thinking and despite that he won the league whilst having a net spend less than his competitor's in that time.

 

The reticence to criticise the man who runs the club (a temporary custodian) is surprising in some ways. I don't think money alone is enough to absolve people of their share of the blame.

The obsession with Guardiola/Barcelona football is what has derailed us in recent years. We were mighty for a long time using the Jose philosophy of power, pace and strength mixed with grit, some of the dark arts and a boatload of tactical nous...

Since signing the lightweight players we just havent been as formidable. We're now in a situation where we're neither one thing or the other. Matic and Fabregas? Can't physically overpower teams because fab is too weak, and cant dominate them technically because matic isnt that great on the ball. Same with our front 4. We have a powerhouse type forward in Costa, supported by technical wizards who never cross the ball. It's all over the place

The obsession with Guardiola/Barcelona football is what has derailed us in recent years. We were mighty for a long time using the Jose philosophy of power, pace and strength mixed with grit, some of the dark arts and a boatload of tactical nous...

Since signing the lightweight players we just havent been as formidable. We're now in a situation where we're neither one thing or the other. Matic and Fabregas? Can't physically overpower teams because fab is too weak, and cant dominate them technically because matic isnt that great on the ball. Same with our front 4. We have a powerhouse type forward in Costa, supported by technical wizards who never cross the ball. It's all over the place

 

Yesterday was begging for an Essien, Ballack, Makelele and Lampard type of player. You need that power in the Premier League, i just don't think it's possible to even play like Barcelona in this league and be successful with it. We are so lighweight these days and it's showing more than ever this season. The tackles our players were putting in last night were embarrassing, it was so half hearted. 

The obsession with Guardiola/Barcelona football is what has derailed us in recent years. We were mighty for a long time using the Jose philosophy of power, pace and strength mixed with grit, some of the dark arts and a boatload of tactical nous...

Since signing the lightweight players we just havent been as formidable. We're now in a situation where we're neither one thing or the other. Matic and Fabregas? Can't physically overpower teams because fab is too weak, and cant dominate them technically because matic isnt that great on the ball. Same with our front 4. We have a powerhouse type forward in Costa, supported by technical wizards who never cross the ball. It's all over the place

 

Is all the rage though, pass pass pass until their defence has enough time to organise then get no where, rinse, wash, repeat.

 

Arsenal have been SOOOOO sucessful with it over the past decade... Or were they better off when they had Vieira, Henry, Pires and Ljungberg running directly at opposition defences scaring the sh*t out of them?

 

Its what I dont get, they wanted to change the squad back in 2011. Bought in a young manager who was there to do that in AvB and a DoF, Emenalo to oversee player aquisition. The aim was to revamp the squad, transition from the older guard to a new play style. He didnt do it immediately, mainly because trying to play those players like Barcelona and be succesful was never going to hapen. Abramovic then allowed the players to dictate whether or not AvB stayed, instead of backing his manager and his own decision to change the genetics of the team, AvB got fired and no systemic change happened. Instead they plummed for Benitez then Jose who is the antithisis of the style of football the players were bought for.

 

Abramovic has not allowed the team to drop off the top (until this year) but in doing so the transition of playing style to one that he actually wants has still not happened. The next managerial decision IMO is the biggest test of my faith in Abramovic, does he go for the right manager who will meet the demands that he sets in terms of playing style (Pelligrini, Rogers) or does he go for the manager who is more likely to win (Simeone). More importantly, does he then stick with him if either playing style or sucess is lacking?

"Abramovic then allowed the players to dictate whether or not AvB stayed, instead of backing his manager and his own decision to change the genetics of the team, AvB got fired and no systemic change happened. Instead they plummed for Benitez..."

Whatever happened to AVB to RDM who won us the UCL and FA Cup before Benitez. Let's skip that shall we, as it doesn't shed the negative light we want on the owner...

Yesterday was begging for an Essien, Ballack, Makelele and Lampard type of player. You need that power in the Premier League, i just don't think it's possible to even play like Barcelona in this league and be successful with it. We are so lighweight these days and it's showing more than ever this season. The tackles our players were putting in last night were embarrassing, it was so half hearted.

Just watch. Next season Pep will have City dominating these minnow teams. We move the ball way too slow and our players don't do enough off the ball. Pep will have them moving the ball fast, closing the opposition down fast (he has a 5 second rule to regain possession) and teams won't be able to settle into a defensive structure because they'll be moved all across the final third and leaving openings. For people who think we don't need a smart manager and solid tactics are wrong. Unfortunately hiddink isn't the guy to take us forward and compete with the likes of Pep. Guus might be able to do okay with what he has this season, but next season we need to bring in a more astute coach.

Edited February 4, 201610 yr by enigma

 

yorkleyblue, on 03 Feb 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Hmmm - a member who joined yesterday, was in here for 30 minutes, made 67 posts, mostly critical of the club and the owner?  yeah, that seems legit!  No Agenda, right?

 

 

 

Not an agenda as such beyond wanting to see Chelsea be as successful as possible, but I absolutely cop to the fact that I signed for a moan. Hard to discuss Chelsea without being too pessimistic considering what we've been going through but beyond that, no agenda mate.

 

 

 

If you say so, "mate"  Signing on for a moan is one thing,  125 posts (and counting) in 2 days, every one of which is negative and carping says to me that you are taking the freedom to moan a bit too far.  Here's a thought for you.  Make one unequivocally positive, unqualified post about the club, or the manager or the players or the board or Roman.  Go on, it's not difficult.  Have a try.  You might find you like it.

If you say so, "mate"  Signing on for a moan is one thing,  125 posts (and counting) in 2 days, every one of which is negative and carping says to me that you are taking the freedom to moan a bit too far.  Here's a thought for you.  Make one unequivocally positive, unqualified post about the club, or the manager or the players or the board or Roman.  Go on, it's not difficult.  Have a try.  You might find you like it.

 

The commitment of the club to freezing the prices of the tickets for the last 5 (?) years is outstanding not just in the context of modern football, but also when viewed in the current economic climate. They also deserve a great deal of credit for reducing prices of Cup tickets, including semi-finals, to £25 which allows people who perhaps can't get into regular league matches to attend a few games a season.

 

The added benefit of this is that the atmosphere of these matches tends to be the best you'll see at the Bridge.

 

Commercially we've excelled in certain areas with the prime example being the Yokohama tyres deal. We've also shown an ability to maximise the amount of money we get from letting expendable assets leave.

 

Then there's the plans for the new stadium which are outstanding and the way they've consulted with local stakeholders has been exemplary and very forward-thinking. The exhibition they had and the way they got us supporters involved was first-class.

 

The ticket exchange has also been a brilliant model of how to handle the secondary ticketing market in sport. 

 

Ok mate?

The obsession with Guardiola/Barcelona football is what has derailed us in recent years. We were mighty for a long time using the Jose philosophy of power, pace and strength mixed with grit, some of the dark arts and a boatload of tactical nous...

Since signing the lightweight players we just havent been as formidable. We're now in a situation where we're neither one thing or the other. Matic and Fabregas? Can't physically overpower teams because fab is too weak, and cant dominate them technically because matic isnt that great on the ball. Same with our front 4. We have a powerhouse type forward in Costa, supported by technical wizards who never cross the ball. It's all over the place

 

Couldn't agree more and the biggest problem was that after being so enamoured with that Guardiola-style of football and laying the groundwork to get him, we chucked it all away when we hired Jose. And the thing is he actually did exactly what he's hired to do - win in the short-term.

 

This is the issue with having a football philosophy completely at the whim of an owner who doesn't really seem to know what he wants.

I genuinely think Roman needs to sack Emenalo, hire a seasoned expert as DOF.  Or put Marina as DOF and bring in a chief exec of experience, 

 

Emenalo seems to be making the suggestions and what not to Roman, who is then "ok'ing" them. 

Think it will be a very important summer. Big choice for new manager and reshaping the squad.

Whether we face more seasons like this one or get back to fighting for the top 4 really depends on a great summer or not.

Edited February 4, 201610 yr by axman2526