1 hour ago, DonAntonio said:

Where were you when they got costa and fab? 

That was three years ago.

1 hour ago, STATS said:

I am sure people said the same when Moses, Alonso and Luiz were put in the team. Where did we finish? Trust Conte.

Conte cannot be expected to work miracles on a regular basis. We'll have a much tougher schedule next season and the team needs genuine quality to stand a chance of competing for trophies both at home and abroad. I'm all for taking chances on potential but we have to go after the top talent if we want to remain competitive.

Edited June 10, 20179 yr by abramovich

2 minutes ago, abramovich said:

That was three years ago.

It was but last year we got Kante early too, I'm no proponent of our board being great at transfer business in recent years, I have said on several different threads that with the resources available they should be doing better. But to say they haven't been able to sign anyone early is incorrect because they have. 

Is he a big upgrade on Matic? I'm not so sure, time will tell. He is 22 though and has plenty of time to improve his game, it's a positive signing.

Happy if we sign Bakayoko, but I still think it's a big mistake if we sell Matic without bringing someone else in (if Tolisso joins Juve/Bayern i'd personally be happy with Renato Sanches/Marchisio).

Edited June 10, 20179 yr by the special one

Remember those times when Yaya Toure used to literally rampage through teams when he was at his peak for Man City? That's what you'll be seeing Bakayoko do, he's not as good technically as Yaya but he's an absolute beast like him

Still slightly rough around the edges but with the right coaching he could become a key player for us.

 

This is a huge upgrade on Matic IMO

 

 

Here's a report about him

 

A straight replacement for Nemanja Matić. An incredibly powerful ball winner, athletic and a dominant presence in midfield, he has been a crucial part of Monaco’s overall system. He is not going to play passes like Cesc Fàbregas or Marco Verratti, but his distribution is often quick and incisive. Bakayoko does not dwell on the ball and is a key part of Monaco’s excellent ball circulation. In general, he’s great in tight spaces and has the ability (although I would like to see more of it) to drive forward with the ball. If he is a Matić replacement, I think we are taking a forward step.

If he is being signed it looks like it is as a back up to Matic rather than a replacement. Whilst he may eventually take his place I don't think he offers much different and I don't think he is an upgrade. Would prefer we went for someone slightly more complete ala Tolliso or just someone slightly more technical than both Matic/bokayoko but he does look like he has a lot of promise.

I would also guess that if he is signed Chalobah will be leaving which would also be a disappointment. 

I can't see Bakayoko joining us to sit on the bench, he'd be better off staying at Monaco, I'm certain Matic is gone. I think we should add Baker to the squad, for a more attacking style midfielder, rather than shelling out millions of pounds on a second midfielder, lets give the kid a chance.

Out of all those talented Monaco players he is the one i wanted the least.

Not sure why people aren't excited, he is a bit raw but is 22 and an absolute beast, way more energy than Matic who looks like a big transylvanian tied on to a cart on on a miniature railway at times, may be the case we don't sell matic straight away just to bed bakayoko in but he could definitely be a top top player for us, him and kante offer a nice balance, plenty of power and tenacity in the middle of the pitch, he is the same age as chalobah, maybe less technical but he is way more of the type of a player we need at this point imo, if he keeps developing will be formidable, offers the kind of powerful runs through the middle we need, moves like yaya in his prime. 

12 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

I can't see Bakayoko joining us to sit on the bench, he'd be better off staying at Monaco, I'm certain Matic is gone. I think we should add Baker to the squad, for a more attacking style midfielder, rather than shelling out millions of pounds on a second midfielder, lets give the kid a chance.

Batshuayi signed for 32m to sit on the bench, it's not unheard of.

Plus we should be looking to upgrade the squad and IMO Bakayoko whilst having the potential to be better than Matic currently IMO isn't, so if Matic were to leave in order to facilitate the deal why weaken the first team. 

If we were to sign someone like Tolisso whilst selling Matic, it could (and would likely) improve team balance and whilst not being currently a better player than Matic, IMO, it may still improve the team and I don't think Bakayoko offers this. 

6 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

Batshuayi signed for 32m to sit on the bench, it's not unheard of.

Plus we should be looking to upgrade the squad and IMO Bakayoko whilst having the potential to be better than Matic currently IMO isn't, so if Matic were to leave in order to facilitate the deal why weaken the first team. 

If we were to sign someone like Tolisso whilst selling Matic, it could (and would likely) improve team balance and whilst not being currently a better player than Matic, IMO, it may still improve the team and I don't think Bakayoko offers this. 

He is a lot better defensively than matic currently, in terms of tackling, duels won and interceptions his stats are better, he is also more energetic, matic is a passenger for me in many games, passes side to side but fails to break up play as much as he should, plus paying for a second striker to sit on the bench is normal,  a second striker's job in a team that plays 1 up top is to sit on the bench, you lose your striker if you don't have a good back-up season is sunk, Cm there are so many options and it's a role far more players can play, so I think the point was correct, you wouldn't pay 35 mil for a CM to sit on the bench, I think we may hold on to matic incase he isn't an ideal fit, but I think he will be brilliant for us, 

Definitely better than the current Matic. I think Conte will have to change the system because with Fab in the middle of Kante and Bakayoko would be almost the best midfield in the Prem. Kante-Bakayoko midfield feels too limited, he can pass the ball quicker but to who? Hazard is out, Fab is benched, Lukaku gives me the chills with his 1st touch, the wing play will have to improve  or at least be kept at a good standard. 

33 minutes ago, Deino said:

Definitely better than the current Matic. I think Conte will have to change the system because with Fab in the middle of Kante and Bakayoko would be almost the best midfield in the Prem. Kante-Bakayoko midfield feels too limited, he can pass the ball quicker but to who? Hazard is out, Fab is benched, Lukaku gives me the chills with his 1st touch, the wing play will have to improve  or at least be kept at a good standard. 

Do you play football? A lot of people watch football and get whats going on but I've seen a few posts of yours now and you think like someone who has played. But it's not impossible we go 4-2-4 next year with something like:

Dave-----------Cahill/??---------Luiz-------Alonso/Sandro

--------------------Bako------Kante-----------------

Pedro/willian??--------Fab-------Lukaku-----Haz

Pedro would push up fab would hold back a bit more of a number 10 than off the striker as he has played when coming on at times last season, I think he is ruthless in that pocket, and haz on the left, it would probably move at times to a 4-3-3, personally I think a 4-3-3 is a top formation but I don't think conte would build on this success with a 3-4-3 then change unless necessary, especially not to accommodate a 30 year old Fab,  but rumour is he has seen limitations of the 3-4-3 in big games against the high press of PL teams, and wants to try a 4-2-4, to do this we need a faster CB than Garry and I'm not sure alonso is good enough if his role becomes more defensive, and I suppose this is why we are linked to sandro, if we don't sort those positions we go back to our wobbly defense, not sure how luiz does in a back 4 also, it's a lot to think about, will be very interesting to follow. 

1 hour ago, PedroMendez said:

Batshuayi signed for 32m to sit on the bench, it's not unheard of.

Plus we should be looking to upgrade the squad and IMO Bakayoko whilst having the potential to be better than Matic currently IMO isn't, so if Matic were to leave in order to facilitate the deal why weaken the first team. 

If we were to sign someone like Tolisso whilst selling Matic, it could (and would likely) improve team balance and whilst not being currently a better player than Matic, IMO, it may still improve the team and I don't think Bakayoko offers this. 

Yes, but Batshuayi was never going to start ahead of Costa, we signed him with the intention of making him back up. Monaco are the Ligue 1 champions, they're not Marseille, bakayoko will surely want confirmation of his role in the team, he won't want to sit on the bench. It's difficult to judge Bakayoko, we'll have to wait and see if he's a significant upgrade, but he has to be on par with Matic, plus he has years ahead of him to grow and improve, so swapping Matic for him makes perfect sense. 

Tolisso is a different player, he's clearly a talented playmaker, but Fabregas is a world class playmaker and doesn't Conte like two Defense minded midfielders? I'm not sure he's ready to start Chalobah in tough European fixtures. 

DonAntonio, Azpi is great in defence, probably the best defender in the PL last season, why you put him in the RB? He is a totally zero in the attack. ZERO. Give almost nothing.

We was so good, thanks to the wing-backs.
I don`t think we will change 3/4/3 that easily.

Pedro/Willy should not be a first choice. We need top class player for that position for sure.

I also don`t see Fabregas as good number 10 man. Prime Lampard for that position would be a killer.

 

Edited June 10, 20179 yr by brakeit

23 minutes ago, brakeit said:

DonAntonio, Azpi is great in defence, probably the best defender in the PL last season, why you put him in the RB? He is a totally zero in the attack. ZERO. Give almost nothing.

We was so good, thanks to the wing-backs.
I don`t think we will change 3/4/3 that easily.

Pedro/Willy should not be a first choice. We need top class player for that position for sure.

I also don`t see Fabregas as good number 10 man. Prime Lampard for that position would be a killer.

 

Azpi not being able to attack is a fallacy he isn't great but he has the ability his stats are about average attacking if you look at him in the LB role now take into account that was in his wrong foot and having to pass off to hazard early more than run himself and you can see there is room for him to offer plenty in his right foot. 

Also if we play a 4 he isn't going to be a CB he is a fullback.

i agree we need a better winger than Pedro Willian but they are decent players and who is available that's a significant upgrade that we can actually get, if we can I'm all for it. 

Fab came on and played that number 10 role to great effect last season, I think it suits him better than laying deep, he came on and co tried the game from there and if he plays it will be there. 

6 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

Do you play football? A lot of people watch football and get whats going on but I've seen a few posts of yours now and you think like someone who has played. But it's not impossible we go 4-2-4 next year with something like:

Dave-----------Cahill/??---------Luiz-------Alonso/Sandro

--------------------Bako------Kante-----------------

Pedro/willian??--------Fab-------Lukaku-----Haz

Pedro would push up fab would hold back a bit more of a number 10 than off the striker as he has played when coming on at times last season, I think he is ruthless in that pocket, and haz on the left, it would probably move at times to a 4-3-3, personally I think a 4-3-3 is a top formation but I don't think conte would build on this success with a 3-4-3 then change unless necessary, especially not to accommodate a 30 year old Fab,  but rumour is he has seen limitations of the 3-4-3 in big games against the high press of PL teams, and wants to try a 4-2-4, to do this we need a faster CB than Garry and I'm not sure alonso is good enough if his role becomes more defensive, and I suppose this is why we are linked to sandro, if we don't sort those positions we go back to our wobbly defense, not sure how luiz does in a back 4 also, it's a lot to think about, will be very interesting to follow. 

Never played professionally other than the occasional 5-a-side haha.

I think Conte needs at least a couple more players to play 4-2-4. Gary & Luiz in a 2 can easily be exploited but with 2 DM maybe that's enough? Azpi needs to improve his attacking output while Alonso will need to improve his defending for this formation to work and we still don't know whether Lukaku or a new striker can actually play in a 4-2-4. Too many ifs to play a 4-2-4 but I trust Conte enough to try it as I know that he'd scrap it if it doesn't work.

The reason why I think he'd change to a 3 man midfield is because he'd done it with Pirlo before and Fab is certainly from the same mould. A 4-3-3 is familiar for Lukaku as well as most of the team and would save time as opposed to re-training the entire squad for the 4-2-4 but we'll see.  

 

12 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

He is a lot better defensively than matic currently, in terms of tackling, duels won and interceptions his stats are better, he is also more energetic, matic is a passenger for me in many games, passes side to side but fails to break up play as much as he should, plus paying for a second striker to sit on the bench is normal,  a second striker's job in a team that plays 1 up top is to sit on the bench, you lose your striker if you don't have a good back-up season is sunk, Cm there are so many options and it's a role far more players can play, so I think the point was correct, you wouldn't pay 35 mil for a CM to sit on the bench, I think we may hold on to matic incase he isn't an ideal fit, but I think he will be brilliant for us, 

Don't particularly agree with you on the bolded part but I have watched a lot more of Matic than Bakayoko and I seem to rate Matic a lot more than the majority do on here but that is a different argument. 

And on the second part Bayern spent more than £35m for a CM to sit on the bench, whilst I get that obviously Bakayoko would prefer to come here as first choice rather than as competition for Matic's place it makes sense from the club perspective, why risk weakening your first team. 

12 hours ago, Deino said:

Definitely better than the current Matic. I think Conte will have to change the system because with Fab in the middle of Kante and Bakayoko would be almost the best midfield in the Prem. Kante-Bakayoko midfield feels too limited, he can pass the ball quicker but to who? Hazard is out, Fab is benched, Lukaku gives me the chills with his 1st touch, the wing play will have to improve  or at least be kept at a good standard. 

This is why I would prefer we brought someone in who is better technically but can still do the job defensively, players similar to the Dembele's/Marchisio's of the world, and why I'd prefer Tolisso. 

Kante - Bakayoko is IMO as limited as Kante - Matic and would likely leave us with the Alonso/Moses out ball which we relied on this year, rather than being able to spot the runs of Pedro in behind, it seems as if only Luiz and Fabregas seem to be able to pick out on a regular basis in our current squad and I would personally like to see another member of the squad capable of this even if its someone like Bonnuci at CB.     

11 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

Yes, but Batshuayi was never going to start ahead of Costa, we signed him with the intention of making him back up. Monaco are the Ligue 1 champions, they're not Marseille, bakayoko will surely want confirmation of his role in the team, he won't want to sit on the bench. It's difficult to judge Bakayoko, we'll have to wait and see if he's a significant upgrade, but he has to be on par with Matic, plus he has years ahead of him to grow and improve, so swapping Matic for him makes perfect sense. 

Tolisso is a different player, he's clearly a talented playmaker, but Fabregas is a world class playmaker and doesn't Conte like two Defense minded midfielders? I'm not sure he's ready to start Chalobah in tough European fixtures. 

Renato Sanchez was never going to start at Bayern so it doesn't mean we can't be spending big in order to increase squad depth and increase the number of players able to rotate in without dropping the first team quality.

I also believe that we can convince Bakayoko to sign even if we aren't guaranteeing him the first team starter berth.
We will obviously be offering a wage rise along with a greater chance of future footballing trophies. 
I would also imagine with the increase in the number of games next season and lack of midweek rest a lot more rotation will be needed and seeing as Bakayoko is of a similar level to Matic  Conte won't have as much reservation to rotation as he would with Chalobah. I would also see Bakayoko as much stronger competition for Matic and may given time to settle and develop under Conte be able to oust Matic from the starting 11 (similar to Christensen/Cahill) and I am sure Bakayoko fancies his chances. Therefore we should be able to guarantee a decent amount of game time.

I see this transfer as a future replacement to Matic rather than one for right now, with Matic to be sold in a year or 2 if he is signed. 

47 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

Don't particularly agree with you on the bolded part but I have watched a lot more of Matic than Bakayoko and I seem to rate Matic a lot more than the majority do on here but that is a different argument. 

And on the second part Bayern spent more than £35m for a CM to sit on the bench, whilst I get that obviously Bakayoko would prefer to come here as first choice rather than as competition for Matic's place it makes sense from the club perspective, why risk weakening your first team. 

Sports mail wrote this piece I'll try and find the full side by side stats later:

"Bakayoko has a clear march on his potential rival on the defensive side of the game. With a more limited role in the Monaco side, Bakayoko bests Matic in terms of tackles, interceptions, clearances and duel success.

Perhaps the most startling figure is the difference in duels won by Bakayoko. Despite a lot less game time, the 22-year-old has 99 more successful duels than Matic.

To put that in context, Bakayoko is making 9.81 tackles over 90 minutes whereas as Matic registers 4.77."

also I assume you mean sanches, that's a good point but they bought him based on potential as he was 18 or just 19, Baka is 3 years older and more proven, plus Bayern have plenty in CM, Thiago, Vidal, Martinez, whereas matic has been poor for us but doesn't have. Alike for like replacement, I think we may keep matic unless we bring in another CM because of Baka doesn't work out we will be in trouble 

1 minute ago, DonAntonio said:

Sports mail wrote this piece I'll try and find the full side by side stats later:

"Bakayoko has a clear march on his potential rival on the defensive side of the game. With a more limited role in the Monaco side, Bakayoko bests Matic in terms of tackles, interceptions, clearances and duel success.

Perhaps the most startling figure is the difference in duels won by Bakayoko. Despite a lot less game time, the 22-year-old has 99 more successful duels than Matic.

To put that in context, Bakayoko is making 9.81 tackles over 90 minutes whereas as Matic registers 4.77."

also I assume you mean sanches, that's a good point but they bought him based on potential as he was 18 or just 19, Baka is 3 years older and more proven, plus Bayern have plenty in CM, Thiago, Vidal, Martinez, whereas matic has been poor for us but doesn't have. Alike for like replacement, I think we may keep matic unless we bring in another CM because of Baka doesn't work out we will be in trouble 

I think it is hard to purely judge defensive capabilities based on stats alone, especially as they play in different systems in different leagues, for instance I think Matic positions himself very will in order to block passing options rather than looking to pinch interceptions, which helps out the defence massively, making it a lot harder for opposition teams to break us down and potentially causes their attack to breakdown elsewhere and this isn't represented as a stat, I would also imagine given Bakayoko's role in the Monaco team and their style of play and team composition he has the opportunity and is relied upon to do a lot of the defensive work in midfield than Matic is in our system. 

I obviously hope he is better defensively although next to Kante I am not sure that is necessarily what we need and the fact that he is being deployed in a more limited role than Matic could be seen as a worry.

4 hours ago, PedroMendez said:

I think it is hard to purely judge defensive capabilities based on stats alone, especially as they play in different systems in different leagues, for instance I think Matic positions himself very will in order to block passing options rather than looking to pinch interceptions, which helps out the defence massively, making it a lot harder for opposition teams to break us down and potentially causes their attack to breakdown elsewhere and this isn't represented as a stat, I would also imagine given Bakayoko's role in the Monaco team and their style of play and team composition he has the opportunity and is relied upon to do a lot of the defensive work in midfield than Matic is in our system. 

I obviously hope he is better defensively although next to Kante I am not sure that is necessarily what we need and the fact that he is being deployed in a more limited role than Matic could be seen as a worry.

If that was the case he would have better interception stats,  he doesn't, I think your right hard to compare different league different systems but he has been key in a Monaco team that has done very well, for me he is better that magic defensively, better at making runs through the middle and with the ball at his feet, for me I'm excited about this signing, I'd still keep matic though.