On 5/2/2017 at 22:54, pacquiao said:

You can't really knock the French league when Chelsea have such a good record of signing players from there. Cech, Drogba, Malouda, Essien and Hazard. 

And if Mbappe was to sign for Chelsea I doubt he would be out 1st choice I think he would mostly play in the inside right position behind the striker with Hazard on the left.

None of the players we signed from the French league were so young with so many unanswered questions over their head though. Cech was 22 having played 148 professional games; Drogba was 25 and played 177 professional games, Malouda was 27 and had played 340 games, Essien was 23 and played 172 games, Hazard was only 21 but had played 194 games for Lille and Azpi was 23 and played 203 games.

 

Whilst i agree we have signed some class players from the French league in the past none of those players were really comparable to Mbappe. The lad is just 18 and only just played 50 games of senior football. Give him time to develop and if he can carry on doing it look at him again. People thought £30m for a 19 year old Gabriel Jesus was mad at the start of the season, £80m+ on 18 year old Mbappe is far too big of a gamble. 

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

None of the players we signed from the French league were so young with so many unanswered questions over their head though. Cech was 22 having played 148 professional games; Drogba was 25 and played 177 professional games, Malouda was 27 and had played 340 games, Essien was 23 and played 172 games, Hazard was only 21 but had played 194 games for Lille and Azpi was 23 and played 203 games.

 

Whilst i agree we have signed some class players from the French league in the past none of those players were really comparable to Mbappe. The lad is just 18 and only just played 50 games of senior football. Give him time to develop and if he can carry on doing it look at him again. People thought £30m for a 19 year old Gabriel Jesus was mad at the start of the season, £80m+ on 18 year old Mbappe is far too big of a gamble. 

Two points:

Firstly, the problem we have is that if we don't go for this guy now the chances are he will be snapped up by someone else such is his profile at the moment. The only way around it if you wish to give him time to develop is to buy him and lone him back to Monaco. However this will still mean we have to pay top dollar for him.

Secondly, you say that people thought paying £30m for Jesus was mad. Well City have payed that for him and he looks a great prospect. We need to make sure we get players like Mbappe and are not left shopping around for "Grade C Eggs". What's more important? What we spend on players or the titles we win?

1 hour ago, xXRuufioXx said:

Two points:

Firstly, the problem we have is that if we don't go for this guy now the chances are he will be snapped up by someone else such is his profile at the moment. The only way around it if you wish to give him time to develop is to buy him and lone him back to Monaco. However this will still mean we have to pay top dollar for him.

Secondly, you say that people thought paying £30m for Jesus was mad. Well City have payed that for him and he looks a great prospect. We need to make sure we get players like Mbappe and are not left shopping around for "Grade C Eggs". What's more important? What we spend on players or the titles we win?

I'd say most important is spending less on someone who is young and already ready to start i.e Morata/Lukaku. Why take the risk when there are ready made alternatives with much less risk.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd say most important is spending less on someone who is young and already ready to start i.e Morata/Lukaku. Why take the risk when there are ready made alternatives with much less risk.

I'm not against getting someone along the lines of Morata or Lukaku. But if we are to compete against the best we need the best players. Mbappe has the potential to be better than both the previously mentioned players. If we don't get him now he will be snapped up by one of our rivals. 

4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd say most important is spending less on someone who is young and already ready to start i.e Morata/Lukaku. Why take the risk when there are ready made alternatives with much less risk.

that the thing though.

sometimes you need to take risks as the pay offs exceed other options. If we buy him and he turns into one of the best players in the world then it will look like a masterstroke - if he flops and ends up playing in China after 3 years and 5 appearances at Chelsea then we will look like idiots.

weighing up the potential positives vs negatives i personally feel like we're talking about a player with a similar ceiling - or maybe even higher - than Hazards so the risk is minimal or at least, the positives far outweigh the negatives

If the premier league is so good you'd expect the teams to more regularly get to the top in champs league.

There are some good players in France. Psg let Luiz go because they had better defenders and he wasn't going to start

It's hard with young stars to know how well they play in bigger teams. Neymar was clearly a good buy for Barca at a young age. Rooney went to united young.

Delli Ali is just 21.

Ousmane dembele signed with Dortmund at age 19

Renate sanches moved to Bayern at 19 with one season in portugal.

To me each of those guys are fantastic players even though sanches doesn't start for Bayern. I wish we had a couple of them.

26 minutes ago, ozboy said:

If the premier league is so good you'd expect the teams to more regularly get to the top in champs league.

There are some good players in France. Psg let Luiz go because they had better defenders and he wasn't going to start

It's hard with young stars to know how well they play in bigger teams. Neymar was clearly a good buy for Barca at a young age. Rooney went to united young.

Delli Ali is just 21.

Ousmane dembele signed with Dortmund at age 19

Renate sanches moved to Bayern at 19 with one season in portugal.

To me each of those guys are fantastic players even though sanches doesn't start for Bayern. I wish we had a couple of them.

The big difference between alli, sanches, dembele, gabriel jesus, rooney to mbappe, is none of those players cost a world record fee. 

Neymar had already proved his quality for brazil and Santos over 5 seasons, so I don't think that comparison is fair.

If mbappe was available for 40 odd million then it would be definately worth the risk, but he is being touted for 3 times that. 

I don't think we could afford the financial commitment it would take to sign mbappe, and I don't think we would even consider making that big of a commitment on a player with only 6 months of proffessional football under his belt. 

We need to looking for the 'next mbappe' in the sense of signing them just before they have get world wide exposure.

The only way I see mbappe here, is if he stays at monaco for a few seasons, and the hype dies down a little.

But the vultures are already circling. 

37 minutes ago, ozboy said:

If the premier league is so good you'd expect the teams to more regularly get to the top in champs league.

There are some good players in France. Psg let Luiz go because they had better defenders and he wasn't going to start

It's hard with young stars to know how well they play in bigger teams. Neymar was clearly a good buy for Barca at a young age. Rooney went to united young.

Delli Ali is just 21.

Ousmane dembele signed with Dortmund at age 19

Renate sanches moved to Bayern at 19 with one season in portugal.

To me each of those guys are fantastic players even though sanches doesn't start for Bayern. I wish we had a couple of them.

I would say that apart from Thiago Silva he was there best defender there was a reason Marquinios was getting annoyed at a lack of game time and was touting him self around to teams like us and United, but seeing as he was younger and has the potential to be better than Luiz, they chose to sell Luiz.   

With all options around him, we're the best club for him. Barcelona and Real Madrid have no place for him, same as PSG, Juve and Bayern.

Maybe Inter and Milan could try, but if he is aiming to continue to play top football, then he has got a place in our team. But the question is, can he prove himself in the best league and prove himself for a big amount of money?

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

If the premier league is so good you'd expect the teams to more regularly get to the top in champs league.

There are some good players in France. Psg let Luiz go because they had better defenders and he wasn't going to start

It's hard with young stars to know how well they play in bigger teams. Neymar was clearly a good buy for Barca at a young age. Rooney went to united young.

Delli Ali is just 21.

Ousmane dembele signed with Dortmund at age 19

Renate sanches moved to Bayern at 19 with one season in portugal.

To me each of those guys are fantastic players even though sanches doesn't start for Bayern. I wish we had a couple of them.

winter break is a problem for the premier league teams. i think if we scrap that we automatically gain a bit more to go into the champions league with. also, utd and chelsea (arguably two best performing champs league clubs) are not in the competition. we have been the most consistent english side in the champions league for years. 

Edited May 6, 20179 yr by enigma

another season i wanna see how he develops. we shouldn't be thinking about spending anywhere close to that sort of money on a kid who's barely proved himself. 

also: 

Mbappé’s exploits as a teenager soon caught the attention of the French media. Asked in an interview with Libération in 2014 what his ambition was, the 14-year-old replied: “To play for Real Madrid. It is better to target the moon. That way, if you fail, you get to the clouds.”

Not sure why there's even an Mbappe thread. We don't need him and we can't commit to him right now. We don't have enough star quality all over the pitch to make up for it if he sh*ts the bed in England unlike a Madrid for example who can still rely on Ronaldo, Bale, Rodriguez, Benzema and co.

4 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Not sure why there's even an Mbappe thread. We don't need him and we can't commit to him right now. We don't have enough star quality all over the pitch to make up for it if he sh*ts the bed in England unlike a Madrid for example who can still rely on Ronaldo, Bale, Rodriguez, Benzema and co.

What a very odd post.

6 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Not sure why there's even an Mbappe thread. We don't need him and we can't commit to him right now. We don't have enough star quality all over the pitch to make up for it if he sh*ts the bed in England unlike a Madrid for example who can still rely on Ronaldo, Bale, Rodriguez, Benzema and co.

eh!?

1 hour ago, dkw said:

What a very odd post.

 

13 minutes ago, xXRuufioXx said:

eh!?

Say he gets some 2nd season syndrome that a lot of teenagers tend to get after their breakout year, do we have enough around the pitch to make up for the goals if he's not hitting it? As sh*t as Diego's been since January, his immense form from August to December is part of why we're winning the title this season and I'm not sure the rest of the team could have come up with some of the vital goals he scored in that stretch (at Boro, at Palace, vs West Brom, etc). In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, we need a bit more experience than trying to challenge for a CL with a teenager as our main striker. No matter how talented he is, that is a HUGE ask of him. He's still developing. And we're not going to spend 100 odd million on a player only to keep him on the bench in certain vital matches. So there you go.

S

19 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

 

Say he gets some 2nd season syndrome that a lot of teenagers tend to get after their breakout year, do we have enough around the pitch to make up for the goals if he's not hitting it? As sh*t as Diego's been since January, his immense form from August to December is part of why we're winning the title this season and I'm not sure the rest of the team could have come up with some of the vital goals he scored in that stretch (at Boro, at Palace, vs West Brom, etc). In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, we need a bit more experience than trying to challenge for a CL with a teenager as our main striker. No matter how talented he is, that is a HUGE ask of him. He's still developing. And we're not going to spend 100 odd million on a player only to keep him on the bench in certain vital matches. So there you go.

So what you're saying is, don't buy him just in case it doesn't work out? Firstly isn't it a risk buying any player regardless of their experience, as there is no guarantee that any player will succeed. Secondly, Mbappe has already proven himself at the highest level, with inferior players around him (unless you believe Monaco are better than us across the park)!

Edited May 6, 20179 yr by xXRuufioXx

22 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

 

Say he gets some 2nd season syndrome that a lot of teenagers tend to get after their breakout year, do we have enough around the pitch to make up for the goals if he's not hitting it? As sh*t as Diego's been since January, his immense form from August to December is part of why we're winning the title this season and I'm not sure the rest of the team could have come up with some of the vital goals he scored in that stretch (at Boro, at Palace, vs West Brom, etc). In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, we need a bit more experience than trying to challenge for a CL with a teenager as our main striker. No matter how talented he is, that is a HUGE ask of him. He's still developing. And we're not going to spend 100 odd million on a player only to keep him on the bench in certain vital matches. So there you go.

Hasn't he just done that for Monaco ?

28 minutes ago, xXRuufioXx said:

S

So what you're saying is, don't buy him just in case it doesn't work out? Firstly isn't it a risk buying any player regardless of their experience, as there is no guarantee that any player will succeed. Secondly, Mbappe has already proven himself at the highest level, with inferior players around him (unless you believe Monaco are better than us across the park)!

 

22 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Hasn't he just done that for Monaco ?

When you face the best of the best in the CL, you need an experienced striker, not a teenager. As Juventus just showed. He was great against Dortmund and City, no doubt but neither of those teams have great defenses and the games were very open. Once you get to the later stages of the CL, that's not going to be the case. Even Rooney had to be groomed with Van Nistelrooy in the team for a few years before he got the full time gig as United's main striker. And United didn't win the CL until 2 years after RVN left. If you're going to have Mbappe as your main striker, you need quality all over the pitch in case you face matches where the other team's defense has figured him out and because he's young, he doesn't yet have the experience to unlock the defense. Otherwise, you need a more experienced striker. Don't know if I've gotten my point across the way I intended to but I hope I have.

15 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

 

When you face the best of the best in the CL, you need an experienced striker, not a teenager. As Juventus just showed. He was great against Dortmund and City, no doubt but neither of those teams have great defenses and the games were very open. Once you get to the later stages of the CL, that's not going to be the case. Even Rooney had to be groomed with Van Nistelrooy in the team for a few years before he got the full time gig as United's main striker. And United didn't win the CL until 2 years after RVN left. If you're going to have Mbappe as your main striker, you need quality all over the pitch in case you face matches where the other team's defense has figured him out and because he's young, he doesn't yet have the experience to unlock the defense. Otherwise, you need a more experienced striker. Don't know if I've gotten my point across the way I intended to but I hope I have.

So you don't think Chelsea have quality all over the pitch ?.  I certainly beg to differ.

In regards to requiring experience, a well known football pundit once said "you don't win anything with kids".........and we know what happened that season.

Just now, Osgood is Good said:

So you don't think Chelsea have quality all over the pitch ?.  I certainly beg to differ.

In regards to requiring experience, a well known football pundit once said "you don't win anything with kids".........and we know what happened that season.

We all know we're not in the same class as Juve, Madrid, Barca and Bayern. Not yet at least. We have some upgrades to do before we get there and hopefully we carry out those upgrades this summer. Moses, Alonso, Matic and maybe even Cahill and Pedro can be upgraded. 

1 hour ago, Barrettinator said:

 

Say he gets some 2nd season syndrome that a lot of teenagers tend to get after their breakout year, do we have enough around the pitch to make up for the goals if he's not hitting it? As sh*t as Diego's been since January, his immense form from August to December is part of why we're winning the title this season and I'm not sure the rest of the team could have come up with some of the vital goals he scored in that stretch (at Boro, at Palace, vs West Brom, etc). In a nutshell, what I'm saying is, we need a bit more experience than trying to challenge for a CL with a teenager as our main striker. No matter how talented he is, that is a HUGE ask of him. He's still developing. And we're not going to spend 100 odd million on a player only to keep him on the bench in certain vital matches. So there you go.

So you are assuming if Costa goes we are only going to sign 1 new striker??? 

No chance, if Costa goes to China we will no doubt be bringing in 2 new strikers, if for example we signed Mbappe and Morata, Morata would be the main striker and Mbappe would play behind him with Hazard.

6 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

We all know we're not in the same class as Juve, Madrid, Barca and Bayern. Not yet at least. We have some upgrades to do before we get there and hopefully we carry out those upgrades this summer. Moses, Alonso, Matic and maybe even Cahill and Pedro can be upgraded. 

We're on par with Juve IMO, we have a good record against Barca, and still think we'd give any of them a tough game.

Agree we need reinforcements, but I don't think we will spend 200/300 million and bring in as many 5 players, unless of course if we sell 2/3

Just now, pacquiao said:

So you are assuming if Costa goes we are only going to sign 1 new striker??? 

No chance, if Costa goes to China we will no doubt be bringing in 2 new strikers, if for example we signed Mbappe and Morata, Morata would be the main striker and Mbappe would play behind him with Hazard.

Of course we'd be stupid not to sign 2 strikers. That's not the point I was making though, is it? And hopefully at least one of them is experienced. 

Just now, Osgood is Good said:

We're on par with Juve IMO, we have a good record against Barca, and still think we'd give any of them a tough game.

Agree we need reinforcements, but I don't think we will spend 200/300 million and bring in as many 5 players, unless of course if we sell 2/3

We're definitely not on par with Juve, not yet. They're a much, much better team right now. They have strength in every position on the pitch while we still have weaknesses. Their defense is by far the best in Europe and their midfield pairings are extremely solid, while we still have to deal with a weakness in Matic. We're not too far off the elite but we're not there yet. We wouldn't have won the CL this season for example and I think Juve will win it this year and complete their treble.

6 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Of course we'd be stupid not to sign 2 strikers. That's not the point I was making though, is it? And hopefully at least one of them is experienced. 

Well you were saying if Mbappe doesn't deliver we would have no one else to score a lot of goals, without acknowledging we will very likely sign 2 strikers in the summer if Costa leaves.