23 minutes ago, coco said:

Take Kante out with injury and I would be very very worried with that midfield, all depends on how Bakayoko turns out.

Fair point mate. Bakayoko's still an unknown quantity considering we don't know how well he will acclimatise to the league, all we have to go on is assumption.

I think he'd be worth taking a shot at. The guy is 19, already playing internationally quite regularly and does something our midfield currently lacks.. that is carry the ball forward running with it. I suppose thats why bakayoko was bought. But him having as a squad player would be very good in my opinion.

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/07/28/chelsea-make-late-bid-sign-bayern-munich-star-renato-sanches/

Telegraph reckon we're looking to take him on loan for the season, presumably with a view to buying him next year... 

Why are Bayern so happy to let him go? 

A question which needs to be considered carefully.

I'd say get him on loan with the option to buy. 

42 minutes ago, @nkits said:

I think he'd be worth taking a shot at. The guy is 19, already playing internationally quite regularly and does something our midfield currently lacks.. that is carry the ball forward running with it. I suppose thats why bakayoko was bought. But him having as a squad player would be very good in my opinion.

I've seen a few performances of this lad, including the other day. I have also watched some all touches videos of his but I have never watched highlight vids. I'm going to do that now because I want to see some examples of superior ability carrying the ball. As I type this I don't remember any. Maybe the highlights is the place to look. I keep wanting to be impressed by this bloke but it hasn't happened yet.

That display against us the other day has been described as great by at least one poster on a Chelsea fan site. That person's definition of great differs very greatly from mine. So far the only thing I've seen him do consistantly well is throw himself to the floor trying to buy free kicks.

Am I missing something? Was this performance 'great'?

 

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by OhForAGreavsie

Why would we even think of signing this guy (loan or proper) if we aren't planning on playing him? 

The reason he even said he wants to leave Bayern is because of lack of play time, and he's going to get the same treatment here

Don't see why he wouldn't get significant play time if he plays on the right wing competing with Willian...we've got 3 cups and a league to play in so there's plenty of scope for him to play 30 odd games...

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by doctorblue

Just now, doctorblue said:

Don't see why he wouldn't get significant play time if he plays on the right wing competing with Willian...we've got 3 cups and a league to play in so there's plenty of scope do r him to play 30 odd games...

Are you speculating, or have you seen something from Sanches which you think means he could make an impact at right wing? I confess I haven't.

We have Kante and Bakayoko for his spot. Both will be nailed on starters. Cesc gives something else. He'd be fourth choice. Does he want to change his current situation to that?

8 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

Don't see why he wouldn't get significant play time if he plays on the right wing competing with Willian...we've got 3 cups and a league to play in so there's plenty of scope for him to play 30 odd games...

Well the main reason he wouldn't get a lot of time on the right wing is because he's a central midfielder.

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I've seen a few performances of this lad, including the other day. I have also watched some all touches videos of his but I have never watched highlight vids. I'm going to do that now because I want to see some examples of superior ability carrying the ball. As I type this I don't remember any. Maybe the highlights is the place to look. I keep wanting to be impressed by this bloke but it hasn't happened yet.

That display against us the other day has been described as great by at least one poster on a Chelsea fan site. That person's definition of great differs very greatly from mine. So far the only thing I've seen him do consistantly well is throw himself to the floor trying to buy free kicks.

Am I missing something? Was this performance 'great'?

 

It wasn't "great", but you can see what he brings to the table though... a physical player who is also technically sound. That is a similar player to baka and IMO the perfect partner to Kante. And of course i'd be delighted if he could do everything consistently, but he can't..YET. Thats why i said he'd be a good option only as a squad player.

24 minutes ago, RMCM said:

Well the main reason he wouldn't get a lot of time on the right wing is because he's a central midfielder.

Not in my opinion...he's best coming in off the wing...and yeah, maybe sometimes he can play in the middle but with his pace and strength, he's better taking players on giving us width...

2 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

Not in my opinion...he's best coming in off the wing...and yeah, maybe sometimes he can play in the middle but with his pace and strength, he's better taking players on giving us width...

That's not where he plays though, neither for Bayern nor for Portugal

2 minutes ago, RMCM said:

That's not where he plays though, neither for Bayern nor for Portugal

He played right midfield/wing for Benfica...

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by doctorblue

1 minute ago, doctorblue said:

He played there for Benfica...

Nope, he played centrally for them. 

3 hours ago, coco said:

Take Kante out with injury and I would be very very worried with that midfield, all depends on how Bakayoko turns out.

Well take him out last year you would be even more worried, I think bako has proven he can do enough to win a league and progress in the CL, no one would want to lose Kante of course but with those 3 we would deffo be ok in my opinion. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/renato-sanches/profil/spieler/258027

19 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

He played right midfield/wing for Benfica...

Leaving aside whether he has been stationed there at some point, has he demonstrated the skill set to make an impact for Chelsea in that position? Not in my opinion he hasn't.

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by OhForAGreavsie

Think he'd be great for a 1 or 2 year loan w/ option to buy.  Try him out, see how he adapts.  A lot of potential in this kid.  Under Conte, I think he'd become a beast.  Seems Bayern are pretty willing to let him go, but I just don't know if we could provide him the 1st team football that he wants.  That would be the only thing hindering a deal for us imo.

55 minutes ago, @nkits said:

It wasn't "great", but you can see what he brings to the table though... a physical player who is also technically sound. That is a similar player to baka and IMO the perfect partner to Kante. And of course i'd be delighted if he could do everything consistently, but he can't..YET. Thats why i said he'd be a good option only as a squad player.

Yet is a very overused word in assessments of young players. It's used a lot because it's convenient. It occurs particularly during what I call the honeymoon period. A time when young/new players are given maximum credit for the slightest thing they do well, while everything they do badly is either excused or ignored altogether. That's where we are with Sanches now. If Nemanja had produced the same performance as Sanches did against us, people would now be citing it as another example of why we need to upgrade in that position. Sanches does it however and at least one Blues fan thought it was great. Honeymoon indeed.

Edit: To expand a bit: -

I am not saying Sanches was bad against us. There just wasn't anything special about what he did. There were one or two (at most) good moments but he's a professional footballer. All professionals do good things but to become the team we wish to be, we have to accept that 'OK' is not good enough. Bayern Munich are not the team we wish to be either, but they are a whole lot closer than we are. How are they proposing to use Sanches next season?

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by OhForAGreavsie

23 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Leaving aside whether he has been stationed there at some point, has he demonstrated the skill set to make an impact for Chelsea in that position? Not in my opinion he hasn't.

And that's what makes Conte the manager he is...

4 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Couple of titles in 3 years says otherwise regarding thriving in a 2, one of which he almost broke the assists in a season. Played a 2 at Arsenal as well if I remember correctly.

1st title - He had an on form Matic and a defensive Oscar to cover him when he picks passes. 

2nd title - Mostly came on as a sub (Which is a great tactic to be fair, tired oppositions, more space etc2). Kante played amazing so was able to cover for him, 2 Wingbacks that covered for him if he ventures forwards and 3 at the back with a sweeping CB ready to pounce.

imo Cesc can thrive in a midfield 2 but only if the team carries him. Fab is worth a team carrying him as does Pirlo but if you have to put Cesc in a 2, you'll need a workhorse to cover his deficiencies and have the team centred around him.

Fabregas' weaknesses are so apparent that all you need is to congest the midfield and a high press to avoid getting balls to him and he will be an afterthought. ofc there are also ways to counter this by using sideways passing to tire the opponent out ie Barca but we need players that can keep the ball under pressure to do so which is why I think Conte emphasizes one touch football training.

Regarding Sanches, I hope he does sign for us as he can be the perfect Fab replacement in a few years. Still needs a lot of developing to breakthrough the WC barrier.

1 minute ago, doctorblue said:

And that's what makes Conte the manager he is...

Well yes I would bow to Antonio's judgement but, first let's see if Sanches arrives, then let's see if he is tried at RW, and lastly let's see if he retains the role. The first of those might happen, but I'll believe the other two when I see them.

14 minutes ago, Deino said:

1st title - He had an on form Matic and a defensive Oscar to cover him when he picks passes. 

2nd title - Mostly came on as a sub (Which is a great tactic to be fair, tired oppositions, more space etc2). Kante played amazing so was able to cover for him, 2 Wingbacks that covered for him if he ventures forwards and 3 at the back with a sweeping CB ready to pounce.

imo Cesc can thrive in a midfield 2 but only if the team carries him. Fab is worth a team carrying him as does Pirlo but if you have to put Cesc in a 2, you'll need a workhorse to cover his deficiencies and have the team centred around him.

Fabregas' weaknesses are so apparent that all you need is to congest the midfield and a high press to avoid getting balls to him and he will be an afterthought. ofc there are also ways to counter this by using sideways passing to tire the opponent out ie Barca but we need players that can keep the ball under pressure to do so which is why I think Conte emphasizes one touch football training.

Regarding Sanches, I hope he does sign for us as he can be the perfect Fab replacement in a few years. Still needs a lot of developing to breakthrough the WC barrier.

Sorry but I don't see Sanches as Cesc's replacement...he may have more mobility, pace and physical presence but I haven't seen anything to mirror Cesc's range of passing or vision...maybe I'm wrong but I don't see that side of Sanches...my hope is that someone like Mason Mount will develop sufficiently to take Cesc's crown...

Edited July 28, 20178 yr by doctorblue

If he was anything like Fabregas he wouldn't be leaving Bayern.