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The youth system


Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

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Is anyone else getting seriously pis..d off with our youth system producing so much good talent for other teams?

Ake being sold all be it for a good price, was the last straw for me on any hopes of players breaking into our team, solanke knew this hence why he left. 

Why as fans can we see players talents but the board cant until were buying them back for stupid money.

 

 

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Waiting on some fans to comment on this post & tell you he wasn’t good enough & we made a killing selling him for £20m.

I feel you are right though and something the club seems to be ignoring is the Homegrown rules. We lost 2 of those with Begovic and JT leaving, you would think we would be doing our best to bring through some young players that have a connection to the club. My fear now is two folds; players on the brink of the 1st team will run down their contract & leave on a free (there are rumours of Chalobah rejecting a new contract), and we end up overpaying for some overrated homegrown players (just have this niggling feeling that we will pay a premium for Barkley this summer).

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The academy is there to develop youngsters for a career in professional football, not necessarily a career at Chelsea FC. Practically all of them get sold for a fee that exceeds what the club have spent on them through the years. They get sold because they are not good enough to fit into a top team with top ambitions. To give them time to develop into such a player would take up places in the academy or the squad, so it makes more business sense to sell them for profit. Only a handful make it into the first team squad to prove themselves. And even then they may not make the grade and they move on. Factors such as the system we play or who is the manager also play a part, I suppose.

Only a few develop into the kind of player we want to buy back, but nobody is clearvoyant to see which player we should have kept. Plus it can be argued that time spent playing elsewhere may help their progress in a way that they wouldn't have had they stayed at Chelsea.

The money the club make from the academy helps to buy the top players we need to win prizes, rarely we buy back a player from our own academy. You can rant about why we have a youth system when they all go elsewhere: it's a business model, that's all. 

Edited by Valerie
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In the year 2017 an academy is first and foremost a revenue stream.

If we get a long standing first team squad member ever then it's a massive bonus.

Teams invest in these youth systems to reap the rewards financially.

Not sure how much FFP is adhered to these days, but when the rules were made any money spent on developing youth did not count as an FFP expense, so it was a 'free' way to make money.

Edited by Blue Exile
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We would all love to see players come through our Academy and star in the first team and personally i think Ake was good enough to play a significant role in the squad this season but if he wants to play first team football then we had to let him go combined with what a few of the guys above said. Money talks and we have regulations to meet.

 

The problem for Ake was he was a brilliant player who had played his way into the team the long way round (lots of loans until he got the premier league one) but he's still stuck behind: Luiz, Cahill, Azpi, Zouma, Christensen and realistically thats only going to get worse when we are likely to bring Rudger in. He's 22 and will know that with an international cap or 2 , he's good enough to be starting games. 

 

Hopefully in the future we see him back (obviously not for too much :biggrin:) but yes it is irritating that the transfer from youngster to player can't be met. I think its partially down to changing managers so often, they can't afford to start youngsters as every game might be their last. 

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This conversation again... I think Chelsea gets too much stick for this and it is mostly from oppo fans.

Simple set of questions here:
Do we need to improve our midfield? Yes, we can do better than Matic. Is Chalobah better? No. Buy Bakayoko. Ok.

If you look at ambutious teams not many youth players get a chance.

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If one Christensen gets through to our youth system and becomes the next JT are you satisfied? He is danish and most of his history is somewhere other than Chelsea.

Stones was at Everton for 3 seasons and they claimed him like he was their youth-product.

Our youth system is one of the best in the country and I'm proud of it. Problem is our first 11 is world class.... Everton can try and finish 12th for all they want but not us.

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i feel like this has been debated to death now. we make good profits on youth players who won't be good enough to become first team players on a regular basis for chelsea fc. if they can make it elsewhere then great, but so far none of them have gone on to other clubs and proved us wrong.

Edited by enigma
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Well Matic did, since we ended up spending more to buy him back.

Not technically youth players, but obviously Lukaku and De Bruyne proved they are good enough for the top level.

I'd argue that Bertrand could give Alonso a run for his money at the LWB position.

 

I'll be interested to see how Solanke does, though I can see him going the Borini way.

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Just now, coco said:

More game time for our youngsters, or silverware ? 

Hansen was eventually right, you can't have both, not now, too much competition around.

C.JPG

Well obviously silverware will always win, because football is a business, the more you win, the more money you get, the more exposure you get, the even more money you get, the better players you can buy, the more you win, etc.., etc...

But to answer personally, I'm in it for the long haul. I'll support Chelsea till I die, win or lose. I'd like to feel a stronger connection to the team, to see youngsters come up through the ranks, who care about the club, putting on the shirt and leading us out. When your team is made up almost entirely of players and staff from other countries, I just don't feel as connected. Obviously I don't want us to fall down the leagues and become sh*t, but I'd settle for winning less, maybe the odd title or cup every now and then, if it meant I felt more of a concection with the club. But that's just me, others will disagree.

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2 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Well obviously silverware will always win, because football is a business, the more you win, the more money you get, the more exposure you get, the even more money you get, the better players you can buy, the more you win, etc.., etc...

But to answer personally, I'm in it for the long haul. I'll support Chelsea till I die, win or lose. I'd like to feel a stronger connection to the team, to see youngsters come up through the ranks, who care about the club, putting on the shirt and leading us out. When your team is made up almost entirely of players and staff from other countries, I just don't feel as connected. Obviously I don't want us to fall down the leagues and become sh*t, but I'd settle for winning less, maybe the odd title or cup every now and then, if it meant I felt more of a concection with the club. But that's just me, others will disagree.

We all want a local kid to become the next big thing at Chelsea, more the better, but we don't produce many players of that calibre in this country anymore.

Our youth in the UK as a whole are more interested in watching TOWIE than playing footy in the street/park.

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1 hour ago, evissy said:

If one Christensen gets through to our youth system and becomes the next JT are you satisfied? He is danish and most of his history is somewhere other than Chelsea.

Stones was at Everton for 3 seasons and they claimed him like he was their youth-product.

Our youth system is one of the best in the country and I'm proud of it. Problem is our first 11 is world class.... Everton can try and finish 12th for all they want but not us.

Our first team is world class..?

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned our Academy has a record of winning youth competitions. Why is it proving difficult to make that step up from U18 games to the first team? 

Edited by ducavis
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41 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Well obviously silverware will always win, because football is a business, the more you win, the more money you get, the more exposure you get, the even more money you get, the better players you can buy, the more you win, etc.., etc...

But to answer personally, I'm in it for the long haul. I'll support Chelsea till I die, win or lose. I'd like to feel a stronger connection to the team, to see youngsters come up through the ranks, who care about the club, putting on the shirt and leading us out. When your team is made up almost entirely of players and staff from other countries, I just don't feel as connected. Obviously I don't want us to fall down the leagues and become sh*t, but I'd settle for winning less, maybe the odd title or cup every now and then, if it meant I felt more of a concection with the club. But that's just me, others will disagree.

You assume that our youth players care about the club. I think most of them care more about themselves and their bank accounts - and perhaps their twitter accounts - more than they care about their employer, as do we all. The club that we see as untouchable and the holy grail, is just an employer to the players. Someone offers a better deal, which may include job satisfaction (i.e. playing time), and they're gone. Wouldn't we all.

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1 minute ago, Valerie said:

You assume that our youth players care about the club. I think most of them care more about themselves and their bank accounts - and perhaps their twitter accounts - more than they care about their employer, as do we all. The club that we see as untouchable and the holy grail, is just an employer to the players. Someone offers a better deal, which may include job satisfaction (i.e. playing time), and they're gone. Wouldn't we all.

True, and some will say the days of people like JT are over, but i'd like to believe that there are still youngsters out there who will have that same kind of connection.

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3 hours ago, coco said:

More game time for our youngsters, or silverware ? 

Hansen was eventually right, you can't have both, not now, too much competition around.

C.JPG

This is the reality and some just won't come to terms with it, and the subject is so played out its painful, this is not the 90's and we aren't a feeder team, here is an article I'm convinced that WAGNH stole from our Nathan ake thread and it sums up the loan situation, why it's good for us as a club and for the poor underprivileged, forgotten 20 grand a week 18 year olds.

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2017/7/2/15909082/chelsea-loan-system-buyback-baby

So now we know it is good for the club and the players who is it people are concerned about, the national team? Well the last guy I had a tear up about this with is Indian and the fella that started this thread is called Scottish mike so I'd reckon not, but if it is the way to solve it is B teams, the FA won't and I understand their reasons so the next solution is foster clubs where we feed a lower league in trouble our club youth players to to play together in a league as part of an ongoing agreement with full stadiums and the pressure of real competition football. Essentially a championship Chelsea made up of youth players. Now the national team wins, but please please stop asking a club that wants to win the PL and the CL who spends 200 million of wages to have our highly paid players sit out while we blood in youth or don't buy those players at all and finish mid table, it's not going to happen.

Edited by DonAntonio
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3 hours ago, Zeta said:

True, and some will say the days of people like JT are over, but i'd like to believe that there are still youngsters out there who will have that same kind of connection.

I have the feeling the JT type is a rare species.

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3 hours ago, ducavis said:

Our first team is world class..?

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned our Academy has a record of winning youth competitions. Why is it proving difficult to make that step up from U18 games to the first team? 

Great point, England just win the under 20's World Cup, we aren't making that step, it's not loans it's where they are, Dutch and Belgian leagues not good enough, Barca and real has B teams, Bayern has Bayern II, and I'm not sure what the French SWT up is but from what I see the league is less competitive so for a good youth player to get in a mid table team is easy, youth need competitive domestic football, we shouldn't keep any youth in the squad at all if they won't get minutes far better be on loan, we keep them a) fan pressure and b) the real reason to meet home grown, so it's actually a rule hurting youth designed to help.

FA need to have a proper think and we need the next best thing to a B team which is a foster club system because as you said our youth are good, under 20's World Cup winners under 21's semi finalists, that gap need lis filled but again Chelsea aren't going to field youth in today's competitive PL at our clubs detriment to help out and to them to is stupid it's just not viable 

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5 hours ago, evissy said:

If one Christensen gets through to our youth system and becomes the next JT are you satisfied? He is danish and most of his history is somewhere other than Chelsea.

Stones was at Everton for 3 seasons and they claimed him like he was their youth-product.

Our youth system is one of the best in the country and I'm proud of it. Problem is our first 11 is world class.... Everton can try and finish 12th for all they want but not us.

Are you serious.

Cahill, Moses, Alonso, Matic, Pedro/willian, Costa. None of them are close to world class.

Luiz, Azpi are a tier or 2 below world class

Hazard, Tibo and Kante are world class or near that.

Ake/Andreas for Rudiger who is hardly better than either of them should have been the way to go forward to replace GC and Luiz. Add Zouma to that and Rudiger is the most pointless hopeless signing I have seen. Does not add quality and is hardly something that we did not have. 

Its the point that we have the players to do it. BUT, unless the player is ALREADY proven, we dont want to take the risk and would rather spend 35mil on a bench warmer like Rudiger than give one of ours  a shot. Honestly speaking, I have lost all hope that we will ever get a youth product through to the first team.

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You took the world class term too literally. International level is probably better term. Chalobah or RLC are not even that.

If you go to Vitesse and don't even set the dutch league alight what merits do you have? None. Why on earth should you take Matic' spot? You spent 3 years in youth setup under Chelsea's logo. Sorry, not enough.

I agree someone needs you to give the chance but you also need to take that chance.

Ake was pretty good for Bournemouth but he didn't impress Conte to take Cahill's or Alonso's spot. Now he is at Bournemouth for good. That is the way it goes. I rather enjoy Alonso winning headers on left flank than see a player from our youth setup try something against a top side.

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2 minutes ago, evissy said:

You took the world class term too literally. International level is probably better term. Chalobah or RLC are not even that.

If you go to Vitesse and don't even set the dutch league alight what merits do you have? None. Why on earth should you take Matic' spot? You spent 3 years in youth setup under Chelsea's logo. Sorry, not enough.

I agree someone needs you to give the chance but you also need to take that chance.

Ake was pretty good for Bournemouth but he didn't impress Conte to take Cahill's or Alonso's spot. Now he is at Bournemouth for good. That is the way it goes. I rather enjoy Alonso winning headers on left flank than see a player from our youth setup try something against a top side.

As a team we are world class, well a rank or two under that these days, but we are trying to get back there , to have a team of all world class players is impossible in our league, even Bayern who can have whatever Germany produces for half price doesn't have a full squad of true world class players, but I get what you mean. 

For our team to be elite let's call it that because world class means different things, to different people, to me it means too 5 in your position or thereabouts depending how much talent is in that position at any time, we need an upgrade on Garry, Moses, alonso (unfortunately because he grew on me so much) matic if you replaced them with players to the standard of the rest of the team we would be a true elite team, and nothing we have produced would come close to getting in that by merit of their playing ability, and that's where we are trying to go, youth set us back in that goal.

Andreas isn't far behind Garry he is a better player by ability but the experience means I'd chose Garry if pushed to, other than that who have we produced that gets in an elite squad anywhere? Ake is currently at a club that's his level and that unfortunately isn't good enough for Chelsea, no neeed for a shot if he outgrows them we have a buy back, far more clever way of doing things.

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31 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Are you serious.

Cahill, Moses, Alonso, Matic, Pedro/willian, Costa. None of them are close to world class.

Luiz, Azpi are a tier or 2 below world class

Hazard, Tibo and Kante are world class or near that.

Ake/Andreas for Rudiger who is hardly better than either of them should have been the way to go forward to replace GC and Luiz. Add Zouma to that and Rudiger is the most pointless hopeless signing I have seen. Does not add quality and is hardly something that we did not have. 

Its the point that we have the players to do it. BUT, unless the player is ALREADY proven, we dont want to take the risk and would rather spend 35mil on a bench warmer like Rudiger than give one of ours  a shot. Honestly speaking, I have lost all hope that we will ever get a youth product through to the first team.

Azpi 2 below world class? No way, he's the best defender in the league, only Alderwierld and a fit Kompany come close.

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1 minute ago, Argo said:

Azpi 2 below world class? No way, he's the best defender in the league, only Alderwierld and a fit Kompany come close.

"Tier or 2".

Azpi has his flaws. As a RB his attacking game is lacking. There is a reason why he is not Spain's no.1 RB. As a CB he had a great season in a 3 CB system but in a 2 CB system, his lack of height would be exploited. All in all, he is a very good player. But I wont say world class.

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