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Alvaro Morata


coco
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

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Just now, charierre said:

Did he put himself around trying to play his way into the game, maybe win some 50/50 balls or even 60/40 in his favour? It's all too easy to blame others. Top strikers make small runs to create room for others, play others in, in short make a nuisance of themselves even if they don't get on the scoresheet. He did none of these things, when Alvaro disappears in a match he certainly does, brings new meaning to 'ghosting in on the blindside'. He at present isn't earning his massively overinflated wages. Fans will always get behind a player who gives his all, its about time Morata gave this in every game.

Well, explain to me what he did wrong? He had plenty of touches of the ball and switched it and made runs into the box, he was constantly marked by about 3 players whenever he was in there and he didn't have one good cross come his way. Giroud also complained about the crossing as soon as he came on because nobody was putting it in the air to him. 

I've already gone over what was wrong with our attack in general, we were too slow, that's not down to Morata, in my eyes he did all he could unless you could convince me otherwise instead of talking about his wages? 

Hazard was poor by his standards, slowed the play down too much, allowed Newcastle too much time to get in their positions (you can tell Rafa planned these tactics for the full week), Kovacic was also quite sloppy I felt and Kante was far to slow on the ball, the only one who was causing Newcastle so many problems was our deepest man Jorginho, the rest of our attack was too slow. Pedro tried to speed things up whenever he got it but he just didn't do enough, he was too sloppy. Alonso tried to cause problems and he eventually did in the end, Azpi was at times far too defensive but whenever he got upfield he did cause problems. 

Morata did what he was supposed to do, make himself available when there's an opening, he can't help that situation if the other players can't find an opening. Like I said, plenty of times to criticise Morata, this isn't the game to do it. 

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What part of he didn't get himself into the game do you fail to understand? He even blocked a shot by Azpi in the first half. Contrast that with a player like Kane who didn't have a great first 30mins on Monday night but he then plays his way into the game by being a nuisance to the backline. Think its best we leave it at that,you think he had a decent game last week others don't. 

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4 minutes ago, charierre said:

What part of he didn't get himself into the game do you fail to understand? He even blocked a shot by Azpi in the first half. Contrast that with a player like Kane who didn't have a great first 30mins on Monday night but he then plays his way into the game by being a nuisance to the backline. Think its best we leave it at that,you think he had a decent game last week others don't. 

Clearly an accident, you realise there were about 10 players in the box at the time... 

I think he did all he could and I'm sure many others also do, the only people who are agreeing with you are the people who consistently bash Morata on here 24/7. 

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3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Clearly an accident, you realise there were about 10 players in the box at the time... 

I think he did all he could and I'm sure many others also do, the only people who are agreeing with you are the people who consistently bash Morata on here 24/7. 

My final comment on this, I asked you initially what he did well in that match and you've failed to show anything a top striker should do. 

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28 minutes ago, charierre said:

Did he put himself around trying to play his way into the game, maybe win some 50/50 balls or even 60/40 in his favour? It's all too easy to blame others. Top strikers make small runs to create room for others, play others in, in short make a nuisance of themselves even if they don't get on the scoresheet. He did none of these things, when Alvaro disappears in a match he certainly does, brings new meaning to 'ghosting in on the blindside'. He at present isn't earning his massively overinflated wages. Fans will always get behind a player who gives his all, its about time Morata gave this in every game.

Just based off the game against newcastle, we tried so many times to go through the middle with zero space for anyone, you had pedro and hazard both coming inside into where morata was, but instead morata moved to the wing a few times to open up some space yet no-one looked his way, I'm not saying morata is a deadly striker or anything like that, but players have to realise that we can't always go through the middle with their whole defence just waiting, we need to stretch teams who'll constantly defend and have 9 men behind the ball.

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2 hours ago, Jackson27 said:

Just based off the game against newcastle, we tried so many times to go through the middle with zero space for anyone, you had pedro and hazard both coming inside into where morata was, but instead morata moved to the wing a few times to open up some space yet no-one looked his way, I'm not saying morata is a deadly striker or anything like that, but players have to realise that we can't always go through the middle with their whole defence just waiting, we need to stretch teams who'll constantly defend and have 9 men behind the ball.

On that point, i think i saw Alonso cross from the left once, even Dave seems reluctant to hang one up for him, and for someone who has proved himself excellent in the air, you 'd think they might play to his obvious strengths, but alas we have quickly morphed into Barcelona-esque pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, and pass some more.

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2 hours ago, coco said:

 

4 of those goals aren't even by a striker. That Drogba volley was a thing of beauty, but it was also in a very open game, and it was teed up by a strike partner, which morata doesn't play with.

I agree morata didn't have the best game, and could've done better with the couple of decent opportunities he got, however a strike from distance from a centre forward when the defence is so deep is really unlikely. He would've had to drop into the most packed area of the pitch, and engineer half a yard to hit a wonder strike. 

I don't think that is a fair expectation for any striker. 

He did have a good half chance though in the second half. The best goal scorers seem to come alive when they get the ball in the area, but he didn't even get the ball under control, let alone get his strike away. 

 

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8 minutes ago, big blue said:

4 of those goals aren't even by a striker. That Drogba volley was a thing of beauty, but it was also in a very open game, and it was teed up by a strike partner, which morata doesn't play with.

I agree morata didn't have the best game, and could've done better with the couple of decent opportunities he got, however a strike from distance from a centre forward when the defence is so deep is really unlikely. He would've had to drop into the most packed area of the pitch, and engineer half a yard to hit a wonder strike. 

I don't think that is a fair expectation for any striker. 

He did have a good half chance though in the second half. The best goal scorers seem to come alive when they get the ball in the area, but he didn't even get the ball under control, let alone get his strike away. 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, coco said:

 

No taking away from that costa's goal against West Brom, but was there any point in that Newcastle game when there defence had space over the top for morata to run into. West Brom are a defensive team by nature, but Newcastle didnt commit more than 2 or 3 players forward all game. Morata also scored a similar goal against arsenal 10 days ago, so I don't think it's the best example. 

The second goal is again a fantastic goal from diego, but it also is after the game had already opened up with West ham commiting men to try and equalize. 

Costa also scored a couple of screamers against hull and soton. 

I think it's much more fair to analyse the game, how many times did messi smash one in the top corner from 25 yards out, when we stuck 10 men begind the ball? it isnt so black and white, as look even Mikel can score screamer, why didn't morata do that. Hazard is our best player, why didn't he score screamer? 

I know your frustrated, and there is every right to be frustrated with how this calender year has gone for morata, but I think you are bring over critical of his perfomance against Newcastle. He wasn't good, but he wasn't bad either, He held it up okay, considering he had 3 centre backs to deal with, but it was a tough game for strikers, no space in behind, no space to drop deep, very few decent crosses. 

 

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16 minutes ago, big blue said:

Newcastle didnt commit more than 2 or 3 players forward all game.

And that will be the norm for this season, plenty of possession, plenty of territory, plenty of oppo defenders sat back. Surely your not expecting most teams to play open expansive football against us ?

If Alvaro can only play against the top teams, the teams that are more open, then whack him on the bench until the top 5 fixtures H/A come around (1 down 9 to go).

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I think the point @coco is making is that these players are creating goals out of nothing, Morata isn't doing that and that is what the best players do and that is something we need. Every top team needs that striker that can pull of something out of nothing now and again, Morata seem's incapable of that though. Every top team has strikers that have quiet days, but they find these moments. Look at Harry Kane. Most matches he is very quiet, but like all top strikers, he gets a chance and he takes it, just like he did against United the other night, it's why defenders fear him. I don't think any defender is afraid of Morata. They know that if they mark him well enough, then he isn't going to do anything against them.

The most worrying thing about Morata is that his confidence has taken a battering and he hasn't recovered from it. Strikers go through poor form, but they bounce back, he hasn't though, he's been in the same rut since Christmas. It's not just his goalscoring that is poor, it's his overall ability. When he first arrived, he was linking up brilliantly with the players and we were all happy to see it because it was something that just kept breaking down with Costa in the team. It was so good that he was even pulling off scorpion kick passes. But the goals dried up and then so did his ability on the ball. Things just bounce off him now and simple passes are made to look hard, he's already looking like the odd one out in Sarri's system, he just looks so clumsy.

He reminds of Negredo. Negredo went through a purple patch, then he lost his confidence and never regained it.

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1 minute ago, coco said:

And that will be the norm for this season, plenty of possession, plenty of territory, plenty of oppo defenders sat back. Surely your not expecting most teams to play open expansive football against us ?

If Alvaro can only play against the top teams, the teams that are more open, then whack him on the bench until the top 5 fixtures H/A come around (1 down 9 to go).

The league seems to have a lot of high pressing managers in, so although I expect it still to be tough, especially at home, I don't think we will see to many teams playing as defensively as Newcastle did.

I would also expect to him do better, if we put in more decent crosses, Giroud also relies on similar service, so I'm not sure benching him is the best solution. 

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8 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think the point @coco is making is that these players are creating goals out of nothing, Morata isn't doing that and that is what the best players do and that is something we need. Every top team needs that striker that can pull of something out of nothing now and again, Morata seem's incapable of that though. Every top team has strikers that have quiet days, but they find these moments. Look at Harry Kane. Most matches he is very quiet, but like all top strikers, he gets a chance and he takes it, just like he did against United the other night, it's why defenders fear him. I don't think any defender is afraid of Morata. They know that if they mark him well enough, then he isn't going to do anything against them.

The most worrying thing about Morata is that his confidence has taken a battering and he hasn't recovered from it. Strikers go through poor form, but they bounce back, he hasn't though, he's been in the same rut since Christmas. It's not just his goalscoring that is poor, it's his overall ability. When he first arrived, he was linking up brilliantly with the players and we were all happy to see it because it was something that just kept breaking down with Costa in the team. It was so good that he was even pulling off scorpion kick passes. But the goals dried up and then so did his ability on the ball. Things just bounce off him now and simple passes are made to look hard, he's already looking like the odd one out in Sarri's system, he just looks so clumsy.

He reminds of Negredo. Negredo went through a purple patch, then he lost his confidence and never regained it.

If that is the point coco was making for morata in general then I agree.

But why use clips of Mikel, Zappacosta, Essien, and Matic, scoring from distance, as an argument that morata could or should have done that against Newcastle? 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, big blue said:

I would also expect to him do better, if we put in more decent crosses, Giroud also relies on similar service, so I'm not sure benching him is the best solution. 

But the crosses have to be perfect for him, perfect as in he's able to run onto it and get a run and jump on the defender, he doesn't seem capable of commanding the box and towering above defenders shoulder to shoulder. 

2 minutes ago, big blue said:

But why use clips of Mikel, Zappacosta, Essien, and Matic, scoring from distance, as an argument that morata could or should have done that against Newcastle? 

I just showed cfc players taking the game by the scruff of the neck and bypassing defenders with their own ingenuity, that was my point mate.

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7 minutes ago, coco said:

But the crosses have to be perfect for him, perfect as in he's able to run onto it and get a run and jump on the defender, he doesn't seem capable of commanding the box and towering above defenders shoulder to shoulder. 

I just showed cfc players taking the game by the scruff of the neck and bypassing defenders with their own ingenuity, that was my point mate.

Fair enough I didnt really get the point you was trying to make. 

I agree he hasn't looked like he will be that player that can regularly step up and win us games. I can eaaily forgive him struggling in that Newcastle game, with how we played and their tactics, but the very best strikers turn the half chances into goals, which would be my only criticism of him that game. 

I'm surprised we didn't address the striker situation in the summer, neither giroud or morata seem ideal for this system. 

We have to work with what we've got though, so if we do find ourselves against a parked bus, we need to move the ball quicker, and put some decent crosses into the box, regardless of whether it's morata or giroud on the pitch.

 

 

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On 29/08/2018 at 21:22, big blue said:

The league seems to have a lot of high pressing managers in, so although I expect it still to be tough, especially at home, I don't think we will see to many teams playing as defensively as Newcastle did.

I would also expect to him do better, if we put in more decent crosses, Giroud also relies on similar service, so I'm not sure benching him is the best solution. 

I would suggest that this weekend may well be the litmus test for a lot of clubs. We are playing against a team of technically inferior players but with a good organisation and a naturally expansive style. If Bournemouth play as openly as expected and we tear them apart then i think all similar teams will adapt to a more pragmatic approach. If we win but the score is, say 4-2, other teams may still see frailties in our defence and may still think that they can attack us. On the back of the Newcastle approach Bournemouth is probably one of the best teams, style-wise, for us to play. I think a number of teams will be watching with interest.

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46 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I would suggest that this weekend may well be the litmus test for a lot of clubs. We are playing against a team of technically inferior players but with a good organisation and a naturally expansive style. If Bournemouth play as openly as expected and we tear them apart then i think all similar teams will adapt to a more pragmatic approach. If we win but the score is, say 4-2, other teams may still see frailties in our defence and may still think that they can attack us. On the back of the Newcastle approach Bournemouth is probably one of the best teams, style-wise, for us to play. I think a number of teams will be watching with interest.

I don't think there are too many managers in the premier league at the moment that are known for setting teams up defensively. Benitez is one of the best in that regard along with Jose, but apart from those 2, there is probably only Hodgson, Hughes, and Warnock, that would consider setting up as defensively as Newcastle. 

It's a very attacking league this year outside the top 6, with managers like Pellegrini, Silva, Jokanovic, Nuno, adding to Howe, Garcia, Wagner, Puel, who all like to press, and commit men forward. 

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12 hours ago, big blue said:

I don't think there are too many managers in the premier league at the moment that are known for setting teams up defensively. Benitez is one of the best in that regard along with Jose, but apart from those 2, there is probably only Hodgson, Hughes, and Warnock, that would consider setting up as defensively as Newcastle. 

It's a very attacking league this year outside the top 6, with managers like Pellegrini, Silva, Jokanovic, Nuno, adding to Howe, Garcia, Wagner, Puel, who all like to press, and commit men forward. 

I generally agree, although I wouldn't say Mark Hughes is a defensive manager!

I would also say that while most managers (outside of ideologues like Guardiola, van Gaal, etc.) will have a 'preferred' style of play, any manager worth their salt will adapt to their opposition's strengths/weaknesses. 

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1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

I generally agree, although I wouldn't say Mark Hughes is a defensive manager!

I would also say that while most managers (outside of ideologues like Guardiola, van Gaal, etc.) will have a 'preferred' style of play, any manager worth their salt will adapt to their opposition's strengths/weaknesses. 

I think hughes definately has it in his locker to sit 10 men behind the ball, and kick lumps out of the opposition. 

I'm sure teams will sit deep against us, but Benitez is a specialist in that field, coupled with being away from home, at ground we have struggled with, and it was probably one of the hardest games we will have to break a team down all season. 

I think more managers will take wolves approach against man city, rather than newcastle's approach against us. 

Realistically we should have enough to beat the bottom 14 teams regardless of their approach though, as long we play well. 

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20 minutes ago, big blue said:

 

I think more managers will take wolves approach against man city, rather than newcastle's approach against us. 

 

 

It's easy to think that early in the season when teams can afford to be a bit more pro active with the ball, Benitez is ultra defensive, and against his old club he probably made sure he wasn't going to get humiliated, but that's exactly what he did by setting up like that.

But as soon as a club loses a few on the bounce, the managers become desperate to stop the rot and start sneaking points here and there. This is when they become more reserved and concentrate on stopping teams first and foremost. Come December several managers will be in this situation. 

When Chelsea roll up in town with Sarriball to play, and they want to sit deep and give us the ball, they deserve what we got last season against city away, humiliation.

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17 hours ago, big blue said:

I don't think there are too many managers in the premier league at the moment that are known for setting teams up defensively. Benitez is one of the best in that regard along with Jose, but apart from those 2, there is probably only Hodgson, Hughes, and Warnock, that would consider setting up as defensively as Newcastle. 

It's a very attacking league this year outside the top 6, with managers like Pellegrini, Silva, Jokanovic, Nuno, adding to Howe, Garcia, Wagner, Puel, who all like to press, and commit men forward. 

Sam Allardyce ? 

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18 minutes ago, big blue said:

Out of work at the moment.

Makes sense  - I assumed you meant all the managers who are defensive in their approach. There are few as .... defensive as Alardyce. And i anticipate that once relegation picture becomes more clear he will be back in the saddle again.

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