2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You may find flaws in any player if you try, even in Hazard or Drogba but that's not the point isn't it?

Jorginho has been constantly good for 2 seasons now, meaning ever since he came here, we got him for his best years as well. 

Jorginho hasn't been good for 2 seasons, last year he was poor and this year he has been good in patches.

1 hour ago, loz said:

He really hasn't. Hit and miss last season and, whilst certainly improved this season, he hasn't been constantly good.

Games like Spurs where he looks quality are ideal for him. No pressure put on him as Spurs showed no intent to get forward and at him.

Games like United where he actually has to worry about having an opponent near him and he doesn't get the time and space his game seems to need, he looks like a rabbit in the headlights and offers little.

Why is it when players you don't rate play well it's always about the quality of the opposition? Jorginho's performances started to dip when he was playing next to Kante, it clearly didn't tick. Whenever we've had Jorginho and Kovacic in the midfield we've always outplayed teams and had our best results and performances with them. Please explain to me how missing Son and Kane means Spurs have a weaker midfield? Spurs are still a very fast paced team. I'll definitely agree that Jorginho has been very easy to nullify, he was last season in December to January. But when we can quite easily dominate low block sides with about 60-70% possession we really don't need any defensive midfielder to stick in tackles. We should be creating chances and scoring goals, quite often we create the chances, but our conversion rate has been piss poor. But big games you have a point yes, I can agree on that. 

So yes, sure, he hasn't been constantly good, can you give me a player who has been this season? Or are we just going to single out the players we don't like? Because coincidentally the people who were consistently criticising Jorginho and Kovacic last season are the same ones who are still pointing out their flaws this season and ignoring everyone else’s. 

Edited February 23, 20206 yr by Slojo

2 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Jorginho hasn't been good for 2 seasons, last year he was poor and this year he has been good in patches.

Has it been patches though? I would say he was very good for us until December when Kante came into the fold, and that's it really. Before that he was playing very well. 

2 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Jorginho hasn't been good for 2 seasons, last year he was poor and this year he has been good in patches.

You probably missed last season then. He was the best passer in the whole league. This season is the same just better in tackles and interceptions, basically a more rounded player after he adapted to the league. Top player ever since he came here.

On top of everything good that he does for the team, he's very consistent from the penalty spot. People are basically starting to see in Jorginho a Xavi, which is why Pep Guardiola wanted him for Man City, and Kovacic is the new Iniesta.

Just now, Gol15 said:

You probably missed last season then. He was the best passer in the whole league. This season is the same just better in tackles and interceptions, basically a more rounded player after he adapted to the league. Top player ever since he came here.

Your his agent though so you would say that, how do you know Jorginho was the best passer in the league? Did you watch every player for every team? 

Just now, Gol15 said:

On top of everything good that he does for the team, he's very consistent from the penalty spot. People are basically starting to see in Jorginho a Xavi, which is why Pep Guardiola wanted him for Man City, and Kovacic is the new Iniesta.

Who the hell has said that ffs, they are nowhere near there standard lol. All you bang on about is Pep wanted Jorginho and stats.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

You probably missed last season then. He was the best passer in the whole league. This season is the same just better in tackles and interceptions, basically a more rounded player after he adapted to the league. Top player ever since he came here.

You can't deny he was having an absolute mare during our dark period in the middle of the season. The thing is, it's a tricky league for a regista type of player, and it takes a while to adapt. I was still impressed with what I saw of him last season but I also noticed the deficiencies when exposed. I actually noticed it very early in the Arsenal game when we beat them at home, everyone said Jorginho had a great game, he did offensively, defensively he didn't, and he was the reason Arsenal had a lot of success for about 10 minutes before halftime. 

I'm very impressed with the improvements he has made this season. 

Just now, Ernie_blue said:

Your his agent though so you would say that, how do you know Jorginho was the best passer in the league? Did you watch every player for every team? 

Stats show it. He was the top passer last season in the whole league. Now he has the same amount of key passes even when we have less possession and play a bit differently under Lampard.

 

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Has it been patches though? I would say he was very good for us until December when Kante came into the fold, and that's it really. Before that he was playing very well. 

Last year he was poor, j personally think his defending is a liability and I wouldn't feel comfortable as a defender with Jorginho in front of me.

1 minute ago, Ernie_blue said:

Who the hell has said that ffs, they are nowhere near there standard lol. All you bang on about is Pep wanted Jorginho and stats.

And you? You don't see how good of a player we have, that's more sad than anything else in all honesty...

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Stats show it. He was the top passer last season in the whole league. Now he has the same amount of key passes even when we have less possession and play a bit differently under Lampard.

 

Lot more to the game than stats, players get assists for a 5yrd pass and then someone smashes in the top corner from 25 yards. I normally find someone who uses stats is struggling to actually find anything else to defend a player.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And you? You don't see how good of a player we have, that's more sad than anything else in all honesty...

So you said his like Xavi 😂

3 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Last year he was poor, j personally think his defending is a liability and I wouldn't feel comfortable as a defender with Jorginho in front of me.

I don't think it's a liability tbh, if he's playing next to the right players we've been perfectly fine. 

Just now, Ernie_blue said:

Lot more to the game than stats, players get assists for a 5yrd pass and then someone smashes in the top corner from 25 yards. I normally find someone who uses stats is struggling to actually find anything else to defend a player.

Obviously Jorginho does much more than his stats show. Last season the only reason why he didn't have any assists was due to the poor strikers in front there was a video about it, this last game his pass solved the game basically but he didn't get an assist either because Giroud's first shot got saved. 

I don't see any valid argument against Jorginho, you obviously missed last season or something.

Just now, Slojo said:

I don't think it's a liability tbh, if he's playing next to the right players we've been perfectly fine. 

Not sure, his just so slow it's easy to counter attack against him and he needs to make too many tactical fouls. 

4 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

So you said his like Xavi 😂

He would have been known as the next Xavi if he had chosen to play under Pep, we're very lucky to have him. Jorginho and Kovacic are starting to make a good partnership now, thus the comparison Xavi-Iniesta.

1 minute ago, Ernie_blue said:

Not sure, his just so slow it's easy to counter attack against him and he needs to make too many tactical fouls. 

Terry wasn't the fastest either, particularly in his 30's but he was still bossing the game. Positioning, tackling, marking and reading the game are very important, obviously pace would help him a great deal but I think he's done a great job without it. The majority of the goals we've conceded this season have not been because of Jorginho and this narrative that we didn't have a good DM, we've had an unstable defence that's rotated time and time again and a goalkeeper that doesn't know how to catch a ball in the air. 

Player-wise, the most important player for the squad when it came down to changing the entire style of play, from a counter-attacking, low possession squad to an attractive attacking team.

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He would have been known as the next Xavi if he had chosen to play under Pep, we're very lucky to have him. Jorginho and Kovacic are starting to make a good partnership now, thus the comparison Xavi-Iniesta.

Rubbing my eyes, Gol! Did you say something nice about a Kovacic :)?

 

Now for some alternative takes:

- Jorginho wasn't poor last season; he was poor in the belly of the season, as was the team,  excellent at the beginning and end.

- Kovacic wasn’t poor either. He was finding his way in a new league and system having spent two years on the bench. showed glimpses of excellence, aged 24.

- Sarri is an excellent coach who worked his way from nowhere to the top. Had a bad spell with us as he was also finding his feet. Turned it around.

Why is all the above so hard to grasp?

 

Edited February 23, 20206 yr by Dean

5 minutes ago, Dean said:

Running my eyes, Gol! Did you say something nice about a Kovacic :)?

 

Now for some alternative takes:

- Jorginho wasn't poor last season; he was poor in the belly of the season, as was the team,  excellent at the beginning and end.

- Kovacic wasn’t poor either. He was finding his way in a new league and system having spent two years on the bench. showed glimpses of excellence, aged 24.

- Sarri is an excellent coach who worked his way from nowhere to the top. Had a bad spell with us as he was also finding his feet. Turned it around.

Why is all the above so hard to grasp?

Kovacic was awful last year, it's not being negative or horrible, it's a fact. The excuses you give doesn't really change anything that last season he was poor. Been great this year. 

Edited February 23, 20206 yr by Ernie_blue

I find if odd how when I talk about a fact, e.g. Pep was about to buy Jorginho it's somehow seen as whatever because Fernandinho is more physical...Mate he might be but if Pep wanted Jorginho that whole argument is dead before it started.

Last season basically a bunch of CBs and Jorginho as the top passer

 

This season Pep found a player like Jorginho, Rodri is the only other midfielder at the top, coincidence? I think not. Check mate. The implications here are obvious, there is no need to futher argue about this.

Edited February 23, 20206 yr by Gol15

Definition of hyperbole;

This thread. 

Here we go folks, the top passing stats are out again 😂 What are we even meant to take from it, Jorginho played most games for a top 4 side in the registra role? I would expect him to be near the top for most passes played. 

8 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Kovacic was awful last year, it's not being negative or horrible, it's a fact. The excuses you give doesn't really change anything that last season he was poor. Been great this year. 

If you were prepared to look beneath surface you could see the potential. Have some appreciation for the difficulty of moving to a new country and new league, with no meaningful recent match experience. Why do you think that’s easy? You have to factor these things into your assessments. The same applies to Jorginho and Sarri. Klopp had many doubters in his first season in charge.