6 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

No player is exempt from criticism. No matter how good that player has been in the past or how popular they are, we shouldn't ignore it or brush it off when that player is struggling

Same goes for managers.

12 minutes ago, just said:

Agreed slojo. I've always said you can never get the full picture of a player's contribution from stats alone, but overall they do give an indication of their strengths and weaknesses. Personally I think Kante's stats give a fair indicator that, so far, he is not having the particularly poor season a few people are saying he is.

Maybe not, I think he has been poor outside of the big games, I don't think he has been terrible but I do think Frank made a mistake disrupting our setup, pretty much what Argo said but in less fancier words. 

59 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Maybe not, I think he has been poor outside of the big games, I don't think he has been terrible but I do think Frank made a mistake disrupting our setup, pretty much what Argo said but in less fancier words. 

That has already been debunked, just like everything else you have said here for the past few days;

You stated that Kante and Jorginho never played well together (false), you supported the claim that Kante doesn't offer anything in our attack (false) -  the only way something might have been disrupted is by how fast Kante came back to the first XI after his injury(this argument wasn't presented by you) , but not by the fact that our lineup without Kante won 5 games against lower teams, as quoted:"too small a sample set to conclude that Kovacic / jorginho relationship would have given better results.."

The fact that you quite often openly choose to dismiss any presented reality, e.g. from stats or video evidence, shows that you will always tend to keep your pre-determined opinion no matter what.

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by Gol15

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

That has already been debunked, just like everything else you have said here for the past few days;

You stated that Kante and Jorginho never played well together (false), you supported the claim that Kante doesn't offer anything in our attack (false) -  the only way something might have been disrupted is by how fast Kante came back to the first XI after his injury(this argument wasn't presented by you) , but not by the fact that our lineup without Kante won 5 games against lower teams, as quoted:"too small a sample set to conclude that Kovacic / jorginho relationship would have given better results.."

The fact that you quite often openly choose to dismiss any presented reality, e.g. from stats or video evidence, shows that you will always tend to keep your pre-determined opinion no matter what.

Nope, the argument was quite clearly about the pivot, and I'm not wrong, they're still yet to play well together in the pivot. 

Yes, sorry, I choose to dismiss 3-minute video montages that you posted of goals Kante has scored. That really "debunks" everything I've said. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but you haven't presented a reasonable argument, other people have however, not you though. It's a shame this forum doesn't require you to submit an IQ test, even at a score of 80 at minimum that would clear people like yourself out. 

18 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Nope, the argument was quite clearly about the pivot, and I'm not wrong, they're still yet to play well together in the pivot. 

Yes, sorry, I choose to dismiss 3-minute video montages that you posted of goals Kante has scored. That really "debunks" everything I've said. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but you haven't presented a reasonable argument, other people have however, not you though. It's a shame this forum doesn't require you to submit an IQ test, even at a score of 80 at minimum that would clear people like yourself out. 

You are in no position to modify your own words and your own argument that failed flat. The word "pivot" was never mentioned until you, as usual modified the initial argument, the thread is very clear and anyone can simply read through it, I see no point in your little inventions, you may believe that you are never wrong but that's very far from reality at this point.

I'm not sorry for proving that Kante offers a lot to our attack, the little video evidence just as a reminder of what Kante is capable of, along side the stats that are there for anyone to read through is a real evidence that proves my point - to which you have no real response, the fact that you choose to dismiss any evidence that proves you wrong does not in fact make you less wrong, and since you failed to present anything part from your same feelings - you are in fact still wrong, and it doesn't matter at this point if you admit it, or not.

You are that person that doesn't take into account any tool that is usually for discussing a players ability or performance, I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ.

The fact that you still feel as if you have any upper hand here, shows a lot, you actually contradict yourself and you don't even realise it, fact is you just admitted that you don't think that Kante is "that terrible" but yet in your response here you tried to keep your same view, intact. You are too dumb to realise that you simply can't be with one foot admitting that you have been wrong while with another still trying to hold your ground, you are a joke mate.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You are in no position to modify your own words and your own argument that failed flat. The word "pivot" was never mentioned until you, as usual modified the initial argument, the thread is very clear and anyone can simply read through it, I see no point in your little inventions, you may believe that you are never wrong but that's very far from reality at this point.

I'm not sorry for proving that Kante offers a lot to our attack, the little video evidence just as a reminder of what Kante is capable of, along side the stats that are there for anyone to read through is a real evidence that proves my point - to which you have no real response, the fact that you choose to dismiss any evidence that proves you wrong does not in fact make you less wrong, and since you failed to present anything part from your same feelings - you are in fact still wrong, and it doesn't matter at this point if you admit it, or not.

You are that person that doesn't take into account any tool that is usually for discussing a players ability or performance, I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ.

The fact that you still feel as if you have any upper hand here, shows a lot, you actually contradict yourself and you don't even realise it, fact is you just admitted that you don't think that Kante is "that terrible" but yet in your response here you tried to keep your same view, intact. You are too dumb to realise that you simply can't be with one foot admitting that you have been wrong while with another still trying to hold your ground, you are a joke mate.

Go find a post where I said Kante is terrible please. 

Look at Slojo and his dirty Kante agenda, he really hates Kante and thinks he's sh*t. 

3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Go find a post where I said Kante is terrible please. 

Learn to read first, illiterate dummy. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

Look at Slojo and his dirty Kante agenda, he really hates Kante and thinks he's sh*t. 

I never said you hate Kante, I simply proved that everything you said about him was false, I don't care about your feelings.

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Learn to read first, illiterate dummy. 

"fact is you just admitted that you don't think that Kante is "that terrible" but yet in your response here you tried to keep your same view, intact. "

Clearly you're implying here that I originally said Kante is terrible, or anywhere near that. Why woud you even put "that terrible" in quotes if it's not even a quote...

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by Slojo

"I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ." Ohhh Boyyy lmaoooo! 

Just now, Slojo said:

"fact is you just admitted that you don't think that Kante is "that terrible" but yet in your response here you tried to keep your same view, intact. "

Clearly you're implying here that I originally said Kante is terrible, or anywhere near that. 

I'm not implying that at all, you actually don't understand a single thing don't you? 

You said that you don't think Kante is terrible - and yet you said right after that you were never wrong about anything you said about him, which is basically that he 1.never played well with another particular player 2. That he is limited as a player in our attacking phase 3. That he doesnt fit in our best lineup. Basically that he has been terrible. Learn to read first.

5 minutes ago, Slojo said:

"I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ." Ohhh Boyyy lmaoooo! 

You don't even know how to read, you dont have any regrads to any presented reality...you want me to believe that you have a decent iq? 😄

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I'm not implying that at all, you actually don't understand a single thing don't you? 

You said that you don't think Kante is terrible - and yet you said right after that you were never wrong about anything you said about him, which is basically that he 1.never played well with another particular player 2. That he is limited as a player in our attacking phase 3. That he doesnt fit in our best lineup. Basically that he has been terrible. Learn to read first.

Saying "Kante isn't that terrible" is completely different to me saying he is not having a good season... Since he has came back from injury I haven't been convinced besides the Spurs game. He has never played well in the pivot with Jorginho, you didn't understand what Argo was saying, because you're illiterate and just not very intelligent, as most people on here know. Yes, I don't think Kante is our best midfielder when it comes to distribution, I think he's behind Kovacic and Jorginho in that. And no, I never said that, I said that currently he isn't playing that well, rushing him back so soon and giving him start after start when he's not playing well and and we are losing games is a mistake. If I genuinely believed he doesn't fit in our best lineup then surely I would want to sell him? You're right, I need to learn to read just like I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ.
 

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by Slojo

I think neither Sarri or Lampard (yet) had any idea of how to extract the best of Kovacic, Kanté and Jorginho

Those are three players that are pretty great at doing a few things, a bit fragile at other aspects, and they simply don't compliment each other very well

It's probably because those players are weird.

Jorginho has world class distribution, dictates our play but he is frail in defense, slow, can't assist or score

Kovacic dribbles like a winger, passes like a 10, but plays way more deeper, almost never scores, assists or even shoots, but contributes better in defense than Jorgi, might be the most balanced

Kanté defends like Makelele, but he is fantastic at pressing super high in the pitch like wingers generally do (like Pool wingers, way better than our wingers btw), leaving space behind. He worked fantastically with Matic protecting him in Conte's system, with Leicester defensive tweaks and when Conte in his final season played a 3-5-2 with a extra guy to cover his space - tactic that got us a victory against Atletico, a good match against Barca and a FA Cup trophy

So they don't click. None of them scores or assist enough (compare it to Ballack, Lamps, Essien), none are them are too physical, only Kanté is great at defending and he's generally too high on the pitch to protect the defense in this system (especially in 4-3-3). Ruben would be massive for us, he was giving this mid balance last season. I also I am not against a more traditional midfield destroyer, CDM, like Matic and Mikel were for us

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by lithium

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Saying "Kante isn't that terrible" is completely different to me saying he is not having a good season... Since he has came back from injury I haven't been convinced besides the Spurs game. He has never played well in the pivot with Jorginho, you didn't understand what Argo was saying, because you're illiterate and just not very intelligent, as most people on here know. Yes, I don't think Kante is our best midfielder when it comes to distribution, I think he's behind Kovacic and Jorginho in that. And no, I never said that, I said that currently he isn't playing that well, rushing him back so soon and giving him start after start when he's not playing well and and we are losing games is a mistake. If I genuinely believed he doesn't fit in our best lineup then surely I would want to sell him? You're right, I need to learn to read just like I have no doubt that you wouldn't dare to submit your IQ.
 

You keep altering your initial statement and your own words, it's not my fault (nor anyone elses by that matter) that you don't follow some of the basic rules of communication. You are wrong in everything you said and I already proved it, it's not my problem at this point that you kept biting your own tail and kept running in circles, adding the word "pivot" to your initial statement doesn't make you any less wrong lmao any moderator can go back a few pages and see how you acted 😄

You're a joke like I said, I don't see any relation with all the false claims you still hold on to, to the fact that for some reason you don't wish Kante to be sold, it has no relevance one with the other, you may at any time while being wrong about everything, still have the opinion that Kante doesn't need to be sold.

I already adressed everything you had to say, at this point you have been saying the same fallacy a few times over, and it doesn't make you any less wrong.

Without presenting anything new, you're still wrong without me having any real obligation to continue because I already proved that the things you claimed are false.

I'm very happy to let you know that the less time people spend their time replying to you, this forum and community will look better, thus for the wellbeing and for the reputation of Chelsea fans, I won't ever reply to you again 😄

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You keep altering your initial statement and your own words, it's not my fault (nor anyone elses by that matter) that you don't follow some of the basic rules of communication. You are wrong in everything you said and I already proved it, it's not my problem at this point that you kept biting your own tail and kept running in circles, adding the word "pivot" to your initial statement doesn't make you any less wrong lmao any moderator can go back a few pages and see how you acted 😄

You're a joke like I said, I don't see any relation with all the false claims you still hold on to, to the fact that for some reason you don't wish Kante to be sold, it has no relevance one with the other, you may at any time while being wrong about everything, still have the opinion that Kante doesn't need to be sold.

I already adressed everything you had to say, at this point you have been saying the same fallacy a few times over, and it doesn't make you any less wrong.

Without presenting anything new, you're still wrong without me having any real obligation to continue because I already proved that the things you claimed are false.

I'm very happy to let you know that the less time people spend their time replying to you, this forum and community will look better, thus for the wellbeing and for the reputation of Chelsea fans, I won't ever reply to you again 😄

We were talking about the pivot, nobody is backtracking, you're just too stupid to understand what Argo was saying, I've already demonstrated this two posts back. 

You've already been embarrassed in the Kovacic thread for being a Grade A f**king idiot, so you trying to claim some moral high ground here is hilarious. 

You said you would stop replying before then got brave and started messaging me once people started agreeing with you on something for a change, it doesn't change anything, you're still a f**king idiot. 

Checkout this lovely bit of skill from our Italian Brazilian

 

 

After 25 games

Top 5 in passes, all around him are mostly defensive players.

 

Top 5 in through balls, De Bruyne has 15 assists with 17 through balls, goes to show how Lampard really needs to make the team more clinical.

 

Highest number of interceptions from all of the players from the club.

 

Second highest in tackles made in the club.

 

4 goals, 2 assists, 9 yellow cards in the league. 

Sarri was steadfast, but Frank isn't stupid. In his current role, how is Jorginho still in our starting eleven?

Get as many stats as you want out but it doesn't change that Jorginho was extremely poor yesterday.

27 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Sarri was steadfast, but Frank isn't stupid. In his current role, how is Jorginho still in our starting eleven?

I've said this in other threads but when you look at Leicester's success with a 4-1-4-1 and Ndidi/Choudhury mopping up behind a good creative pair of midfielders you wonder what has to happen for Frank to replicate that using the best defensive midfielder in football. 

Note the first goal. Tielemans gets wrong side of Jorginho and he is too slow to get back and cover. That's just one example of him being caught out when Leicester countered. There were plenty more. If we're going to play open and high pressing football you just can't have someone with no pace playing in that role.

It's the identical situation to Fabregas second season under Mourinho. Great attributes on the ball but when you're easily bypassed by a counter through midfield it's just not to work out. 

The bad thing is that if Jorginho gets another yellow that will be a 2 match suspension and the whole team without him looks totally lost in space so it's actually scary because we don't really have easy games anymore.

The good thing is that Lampard can try and use the Conte formation against Spurs again, maybe it wasn't really expected by Jose the last time but I really doubt that he actually has had the time to prepare for it and actually we have a decent record with the 3-4-2-1(3-5-2/3-4-3), we only lost once with that formation (vs Southampton) and we have 3 wins with it. That is if Jorginho gets a yellow against United.

On 01/02/2020 at 08:27, robdog said:

Checkout this lovely bit of skill from our Italian Brazilian

 

for some reason that video disappeared - probably the EPL took the video down - here is another from Chelsea TV