Not ahead of Barkley, Kante or RLC for me. Only advantage over the latter is a pre-season. 

Will be both fantastic and hilarious if, at the end of this season, Kovacic gets mentioned as one of the signings of the summer, having been signed during our transfer ban.

Not to mention silencing me and many others here. Would actually love it if it happened.

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

Will be both fantastic and hilarious if, at the end of this season, Kovacic gets mentioned as one of the signings of the summer, having been signed during our transfer ban.

And also ironic considering majority of fans seamlessly vetoing against the permanent transfer which I was bemused by. He clearly is a talented player and it just takes a couple of games for fans to have a 'Eureka' moment. So frustrating. It was a no-brainer to sign Kovacic.

Edited August 1, 20196 yr by STATS

27 minutes ago, Gem said:

Not ahead of Barkley, Kante or RLC for me. Only advantage over the latter is a pre-season. 

Operating in a different role to Ross and Ruben. Challenging Kante and Jorginho for game time this season.

And also ironic considering majority of fans seamlessly vetoing against the permanent transfer which I was bemused by. He clearly is a talented player and it just takes a couple of games for fans to have a 'Eureka' moment. So frustrating. It was a no-brainer to sign Kovacic.

I would hold my horses and assess him as the season progresses. He was pretty good start of last season as well and what happened? He completely faded to this side-passing midfielder.

2 minutes ago, evissy said:

19 minutes ago, STATS said:

And also ironic considering majority of fans seamlessly vetoing against the permanent transfer which I was bemused by. He clearly is a talented player and it just takes a couple of games for fans to have a 'Eureka' moment. So frustrating. It was a no-brainer to sign Kovacic.

I would hold my horses and assess him as the season progresses. He was pretty good start of last season as well and what happened? He completely faded to this side-passing midfielder.

Could be the case but my point is, fans are way too quick to turn on a player for the good or bad. 

2 minutes ago, evissy said:

He completely faded to this side-passing midfielder.

Damn near every player turned into a side-passing player as the season progressed last season though. Much more to do with Sarri's instructions as well as Kovacic playing in the wrong position then anything else.

  Good to see that he's kept up his good pre-season form. But i'll wait to see how he plays in the real games to see if he's turned the corner, or if he reverts back to being the nothing player we saw last season.

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Operating in a different role to Ross and Ruben. Challenging Kante and Jorginho for game time this season.

Absolutely, in the current system. Should  roles/positions/systems etc change then it’s still the same for me. We change to a system where Kante, Jorginho & someone like Kovacic are deemed the best options? Nope, my original statement stands - Kovacic is still behind Barkley and RLC. 

I have no idea what formation, tactics, personnel & opponent would make that ^^^ midfield seem the best option but that’s for Frank to worry about. 

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Operating in a different role to Ross and Ruben. Challenging Kante and Jorginho for game time this season.

Absolutely, in the current system. Should  roles/positions/systems etc change then it’s still the same for me. We change to a system where Kante, Jorginho & someone like Kovacic are deemed the best options? Nope, my original statement stands - Kovacic is still behind Barkley and RLC. 

I have no idea what formation, tactics, personnel & opponent would make that ^^^ midfield seem the best option but that’s for Frank to worry about. 

I think when Kante is back and 100% he’ll likely drop to the bench and rotate with Kante/Jorginho. 

If we go with the diamond it’s a whole new kettle of fish.  

 

btw anyone knows of Kovacic's status after yesterday's match? That challenge on him seem pretty bad & he limped off the pitch.

Depends on the game, but trying to strip Sarri out of things, I think a lot of the side-ways passing problem last season happened when teams defended deep against us.  We haven't seen much of that yet in pre-season (rare teams do that in friendlies/warm ups) and that's the sort of thing where we'd want to sacrifice some solidity/ball-retention for incisive/quick passing, which I see less of from Kovacic.  There have seen some nice signs pre-season on that but let's see what happens real world.  He has been impressive in playing out from the press and I'm much happier that with Kante injured we have him and not Bakayoko and Drinkwater for a pivot...

If he will be playing a deeper role this season (something that is almost certain at this point) then he would definitely be my first choice to play alongside Kante. That dribbling ability and close control of the football in the middle of the pitch can be a major weapon. He has the ability to take 2 or 3 players out of the game with a few dribbles, close control touches and bursts from midfield. This would create space for other players and potentially give the likes of Pulisic, Pedro and Barkley room to create chances and shots on goal.

I like Jorginho, but his short passes alone isn't enough for me, he doesn't quite have the ability to cope well under pressure like Kovacic does. I feel like Kovacic has more to his game and be a tougher apponent for the opposition to deal with. You can mark Jorginho out of a game a lot easier than somebody like Kovacic.

I was against the signing of Kovacic, mainly because I was worried Lampard would play him as an attacking midfielder, something he really isn't very good at doing. But if he is going to play deeper, something I wanted to see a lot more of last season, then I can get on board with this signing.

He'll be keeping the bench warm when Kante,Jorghy and RLC are fully fit. Barkley should also start games.

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He'll be keeping the bench warm when Kante,Jorghy and RLC are fully fit. Barkley should also start games.

Wishful thinking. People were saying that last season as well, yet Kovacic and Barkley were playing while RLC kept warming the bench for most of the season, same as people were moaning about CHO while Willian and Pedro were playing. I seriously doubt Kova would've signed without some kind of assurances on game time, he didn't leave the RM bench to be in the same position at CFC. Looking at our midfield performances right now even Kante will have to share some game time, and Ruben definitely isn't getting past Ross if he can keep performing the way he did in pre season.

Since those are nice problems to have for a team I don't understand why you are so cynical though.

5 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Wishful thinking. People were saying that last season as well, yet Kovacic and Barkley were playing while RLC kept warming the bench for most of the season, same as people were moaning about CHO while Willian and Pedro were playing. I seriously doubt Kova would've signed without some kind of assurances on game time, he didn't leave the RM bench to be in the same position at CFC. Looking at our midfield performances right now even Kante will have to share some game time, and Ruben definitely isn't getting past Ross if he can keep performing the way he did in pre season.

Since those are nice problems to have for a team I don't understand why you are so cynical though.

Peak RLC outshines a peak Barkley every day of the weak though. 

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Peak RLC outshines a peak Barkley every day of the weak though. 

Completely disagree. It's puzzling to me how so many people rate a player so highly that can't even stay fit for half a season. Ruben has a bad back. Dropping a good performer like Ross in favor of a player that will be injured again after 5 games is a terrible thing to do, it would completely disintegrate team morale and rightfully so.

Point is, first Ruben has to get fit and STAY FIT, then we can talk about him being a potential world beater.

Edited August 2, 20196 yr by Vagabond

2 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Completely disagree. It's puzzling to me how so many people rate a player so highly that can't even stay fit for half a season. Ruben has a bad back. Dropping a good performer like Ross in favor of a player that will be injured again after 5 games is a terrible thing to do, it would completely disintegrate team morale and rightfully so.

Point is, first Ruben has to get fit and STAY FIT, then we can talk about him being a potential world beater.

Brazilian Ronaldo was injury prone but you still stick him in your team when fully fit, just like Robben etc.

Ruben can be and is a world beater, Ross will be a tidy player that has the occasional great game.

People had this same impression of Ross at the start of last season then he sunk into mediocrity once again. 26 years old this year and i'm still to see him have a season as good as when he first came on the scene at Everton. 

8 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Completely disagree. It's puzzling to me how so many people rate a player so highly that can't even stay fit for half a season. Ruben has a bad back. Dropping a good performer like Ross in favor of a player that will be injured again after 5 games is a terrible thing to do, it would completely disintegrate team morale and rightfully so.

Point is, first Ruben has to get fit and STAY FIT, then we can talk about him being a potential world beater.

 

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Brazilian Ronaldo was injury prone but you still stick him in your team when fully fit, just like Robben etc.

Ruben can be and is a world beater, Ross will be a tidy player that has the occasional great game.

People had this same impression of Ross at the start of last season then he sunk into mediocrity once again. 26 years old this year and i'm still to see him have a season as good as when he first came on the scene at Everton. 

Not to mention, Ross has had his share of injury problems as well.  It's literally what held up his move to Chelsea, he wanted to finish his rehab at Everton was the story.

If Rooney was seen as an old 26, then Barkley is a young 26 who's still learning the game and even looking to find his best posistion. Doubt he'll ever be a top player, but he could go on to be a very good, very useful squad player for us and at a bargin fee too. 

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Brazilian Ronaldo was injury prone but you still stick him in your team when fully fit, just like Robben etc.

Ruben can be and is a world beater, Ross will be a tidy player that has the occasional great game.

People had this same impression of Ross at the start of last season then he sunk into mediocrity once again. 26 years old this year and i'm still to see him have a season as good as when he first came on the scene at Everton. 

Ronaldo and Robben were absolute world class. The top of the top. Ruben is 23 now and the highlight of his career is a hattrick against Bate Borisov, so let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I honestly don't care who is playing as long as team performance is where it should be.

I always thought Barkley was a decent player. He has a lot to offer in the right setup. Last years posession based playing style was just not fitting for him, because keeping posession too much of a priority last season and that's where he struggles when he is gets pressed. I agree that Ruben is a quicker thinker which is good in tight spaces and he did show glimpses of the world class you are attributing to him, but against teams that give us space I prefer Barkley.

@mwblue10 : If we would've had this conversation back then I would've told you the same thing about Ross; he has to get fit and stay fit. Giving him a spot in a regular starting lineup when he never had it before and when his body seemingly won't allow him to play on a regular basis doesn't make sense.

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

Wishful thinking. People were saying that last season as well, yet Kovacic and Barkley were playing while RLC kept warming the bench for most of the season, same as people were moaning about CHO while Willian and Pedro were playing. I seriously doubt Kova would've signed without some kind of assurances on game time, he didn't leave the RM bench to be in the same position at CFC. Looking at our midfield performances right now even Kante will have to share some game time, and Ruben definitely isn't getting past Ross if he can keep performing the way he did in pre season.

Since those are nice problems to have for a team I don't understand why you are so cynical though.

Difference is now Kovacic is one of three midfielders fighting for two positions whereas at Real he was like the 4th sometimes 5th choice in CM. Frank will likely use a lot of rotation and i imagine most games a substitution will be made in the pivot. For example Willian has been third choice winger for years but ultimately i think he's close to the top in appearance numbers. Being 3rd choice in a position a lot of substitutions and rotation is made isn't too big a deal.

Assuming we don't flop early in all the cups we will be playing 55-60 games next season and Kovacic barring long term injury will most likely play a part most if not all of them (at Real he was only ever in the 30's for appearances and a lot of them were token minutes).

Edited August 2, 20196 yr by Argo

I think most of all Kovacic wants to play finals, since he sat out a few of them (CL finals and the world cup final because of a shoulder injury apparently). Last season he played one and played well I thought, so he should be happy for a while now.

On 12/07/2019 at 08:14, mojo said:

Barkley can score and assist but he's prone to mistakes in front of our goal. he is usually clueless and tends to panic with the ball under preassure.

Barkley has been out-standing in pre-season.