Silva really messed up, ideally we could have gone 4 at the back yet we had Alonso, Azpi not ideal for a back four and Jorgy not playing well.

Could have brought on Christensen to play in a back four.

Chilwell for Alonso

and Azpi for Mount.

With James to move into right back area.

The only thing would be no more subs and an unreliable back two up against WBAs dominant attackers at that point.

That would have left us with

                                             Mendy

  James   Christensen                            Zouma Chilwell

                                     Kova    Mount

                                    Ziyech   Pulisic

                                        Werner

33 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Players like Alonso were identified as weaknesses by Lampard and pushed to the periphery of the squad. Tuchel restored Alonso with some decent returns initially. But I would prefer to see Chilwell given a chance. He may be less experienced at LWB but he is a better defender and will improve with experience. 

I have wondered for some time with Alonso why not use him in the front 3? Offensively he can offer a lot, and means we dont rely on him defensively.

17 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Silva really messed up, ideally we could have gone 4 at the back yet we had Alonso, Azpi not ideal for a back four and Jorgy not playing well.

Could have brought on Christensen to play in a back four.

Chilwell for Alonso

and Azpi for Mount.

With James to move into right back area.

The only thing would be no more subs and an unreliable back two up against WBAs dominant attackers at that point.

That would have left us with

                                             Mendy

  James   Christensen                            Zouma Chilwell

                                     Kova    Mount

                                    Ziyech   Pulisic

                                        Werner

Only needed to make 2 subs to make a back 4 workable:

 

Mendy

 

James---Christensen----zouma---Azpi

 

----Gilmour-----Kovacic

 

---Zyiech----Alonso

 

Werner

 

Jorginho and Pulisic out, Christensen and Gilmour in.

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Even if we could (which I largely think we can). Who can you honestly say would be Tuchel's preferred picks? 

One minute players seem in favour, the next they barely play at all (CHO mainly) . Players seem on the fringes then suddenly starting more games than not (Pulisic, Ziyech). Werner apparently isn't suited to playing as a 9, then is mainly getting starts in that position. 

I think Tuchel has laid some decent foundations for a team but he also seems like he can be his own worst enemy with regards to rotation/team selection and not wanting to stray from three at the back. 

We usually play three times a week and have since Tuchel arrived. He's got no choice but to manage the squad.

Personally I think he's got a great idea how his strongest XI looks already but you simply can't use everyone in every game with how thick and fast they come.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/05/thomas-tuchel-singles-out-two-chelsea-players-for-criticism-in-team-meeting-after-west-brom-defeat-14357987/?ito=newsnow-feed

Not the biggest Metro fan but they've quoted some of the 'inside' knowledge the athletic has gathered. Whilst I agree with most on here I still don't think now is the time to question TT just yet. 

I rewatched all of the goals thoroughly and tbh people can lay the blame at the manager the system or whatever. But, after rewatching and pausing at crucial moments I can whole heartedly say this was not the Chelsea that Tuchel had essentially created for 14 prior matches.

This was the Chelsea we as the fans have come to know in recent seasons, TT made his fair share of mistakes in personnel and failure to adapt to the situation. But, with all the individual mistakes that led to goals no manager could be held fully responsible for this.

Rotation was key with a quarter final game coming up how was he to know Jorginho one of his most trusted players so far into his reign would be so bad in this specific game. Let alone Zouma who I'll be honest I lost faith for him to be in a back 3 a while back but he had improved until Saturday.

As the article highlights he sat them down and went through all of the goals and if you have rewatched them and I mean like again and again you'll see that this was a completely different team to what we have come to expect under TT. The discipline was completely gone. One red card should not do that to a team that essentially replaced the cb by offloading an attacker.

Our attack should have suffered that game yet we equalled our max amount of goals scored for TT in that game. He chose to approach the red card by bring on another defender arguably our best current defender on form and we went to pieces still.

As people have said its the mentality in this team, first sign of adversity and they fall to pieces again and again. It's so hard to create a winning spine.

The best mentality I have seen in recent years would be Leicester in their relegation scrap which they avoided and then the following season went on to win the league. As well as Liverpool losing UCL final and then prem by 1 point and the following seasons to those failures improving. Let alone overcoming a 3-0 loss at Barca.

We just don't have those kinds of personalities in our lockeroom. Had Thiago stayed on the pitch and someone else been sent off then maybe he would be one of those personalities.

Mount has it, imo Pulisic isn't far off from having it CHO has shown glimpses when he's come on in losing situations. Rudiger for all his faults has it, Kova tried bless him and I'm sure he has it in him and I think Kante as well. Aside from that I can't think of any other fighters maybe Tammy and Oli. I may have forgotten 1 or 2 but in a 21+ person squad having only several fighters and half of them aren't even 23 is a concerning sign.The majority are academy players and they bleed these colours. 

What struck me about TT when he first came in wasn't just his likeability it was his ability to get the best out of his players. You could see they wanted to perform for him.

Saturday they let him down because even if you say he should take off the under performers J5 and Zouma the fact he didn't and they carried on with their poor performances alongside a handful of others shows him all he needs to know about whether he can count on them when his hands are tied.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

We usually play three times a week and have since Tuchel arrived. He's got no choice but to manage the squad.

Personally I think he's got a great idea how his strongest XI looks already but you simply can't use everyone in every game with how thick and fast they come.

That’s something a lot of people forget when they criticize his tinkering. Not to mention we have a good number of players in our squad who are injury prone. I’d love for us to play our best squad week in and week out but I can also see where Tuchel is coming from with the games coming thick and fast.

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we're going to play wingbacks full time Alonso should be a back up and Chilwell should be an option for LCB.

We will need to use the market for a starting LWB or failing that hope CHO or even Pulisic can pull it off.

I wouldn't say back uo but rotation in regards to Alonso. I couldn't agree more about Chillwell at lcb though considering Azpi has a licence to roam fwd at rcb so games he doesn't start we could use a more traditional cb on the right and Ben on the left. Play a more winger type at lwb. I don't know why he has only used the right side for this tactic. In fact it probably would have made more sense to bring on someone like Ben Saturday and have Alonso remain relatively high with Chillwell covering. 

28 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/05/thomas-tuchel-singles-out-two-chelsea-players-for-criticism-in-team-meeting-after-west-brom-defeat-14357987/?ito=newsnow-feed

Not the biggest Metro fan but they've quoted some of the 'inside' knowledge the athletic has gathered. Whilst I agree with most on here I still don't think now is the time to question TT just yet. 

I rewatched all of the goals thoroughly and tbh people can lay the blame at the manager the system or whatever. But, after rewatching and pausing at crucial moments I can whole heartedly say this was not the Chelsea that Tuchel had essentially created for 14 prior matches.

This was the Chelsea we as the fans have come to know in recent seasons, TT made his fair share of mistakes in personnel and failure to adapt to the situation. But, with all the individual mistakes that led to goals no manager could be held fully responsible for this.

Rotation was key with a quarter final game coming up how was he to know Jorginho one of his most trusted players so far into his reign would be so bad in this specific game. Let alone Zouma who I'll be honest I lost faith for him to be in a back 3 a while back but he had improved until Saturday.

As the article highlights he sat them down and went through all of the goals and if you have rewatched them and I mean like again and again you'll see that this was a completely different team to what we have come to expect under TT. The discipline was completely gone. One red card should not do that to a team that essentially replaced the cb by offloading an attacker.

Our attack should have suffered that game yet we equalled our max amount of goals scored for TT in that game. He chose to approach the red card by bring on another defender arguably our best current defender on form and we went to pieces still.

As people have said its the mentality in this team, first sign of adversity and they fall to pieces again and again. It's so hard to create a winning spine.

The best mentality I have seen in recent years would be Leicester in their relegation scrap which they avoided and then the following season went on to win the league. As well as Liverpool losing UCL final and then prem by 1 point and the following seasons to those failures improving. Let alone overcoming a 3-0 loss at Barca.

We just don't have those kinds of personalities in our lockeroom. Had Thiago stayed on the pitch and someone else been sent off then maybe he would be one of those personalities.

Mount has it, imo Pulisic isn't far off from having it CHO has shown glimpses when he's come on in losing situations. Rudiger for all his faults has it, Kova tried bless him and I'm sure he has it in him and I think Kante as well. Aside from that I can't think of any other fighters maybe Tammy and Oli. I may have forgotten 1 or 2 but in a 21+ person squad having only several fighters and half of them aren't even 23 is a concerning sign.The majority are academy players and they bleed these colours. 

What struck me about TT when he first came in wasn't just his likeability it was his ability to get the best out of his players. You could see they wanted to perform for him.

Saturday they let him down because even if you say he should take off the under performers J5 and Zouma the fact he didn't and they carried on with their poor performances alongside a handful of others shows him all he needs to know about whether he can count on them when his hands are tied.

They are not wrong. Jorgi was a disaster and Zouma was worse than David Luiz at his worst.

Plenty others were poor but those should be tossed in the reserves for a couple of weeks.

And I really hope is true. I hope TT tore them in to little pieces.

Edited April 5, 20215 yr by axman2526

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

They are not wrong. Jorgi was a disaster and Zouma was worse than David Luiz at his worst.

Plenty others were poor but those should be tossed in the reserves for a couple of weeks.

I am a fan of Jorginho but I can't defend that performance. I think the stars are aligned now for either Mason or Billy to partner Kova for a game or two in the pivot while Kante is injured and Jorgeeh has a cool down period. Let's mix it up and see what happens.

For all the positives Jorginho brings to the team. More forward thinking players like Billy and Mason could be the missing spark from the pivot. As long as they can provide the back 3 with some protection.

37 minutes ago, Sindre said:

We usually play three times a week and have since Tuchel arrived. He's got no choice but to manage the squad.

Personally I think he's got a great idea how his strongest XI looks already but you simply can't use everyone in every game with how thick and fast they come.

We dont play three time a week. we play twice, its not asking much for top players to play twice a week. Sure they need resting at stages, but TT makes anywhere between 4-7 changes from game to game.

 

1 minute ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I am a fan of Jorginho but I can't defend that performance. I think the stars are aligned now for either Mason or Billy to partner Kova for a game or two in the pivot while Kante is injured and Jorgeeh has a cool down period. Let's mix it up and see what happens.

For all the positives Jorginho brings to the team. More forward thinking players like Billy and Mason could be the missing spark from the pivot. As long as they can provide the back 3 with some protection.

I am a fan as well but no one should be able to perform that poorly for Chelsea and then start a CL quarter final.

Many were bad, but him and Zouma were unacceptably so.

2 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I am a fan of Jorginho but I can't defend that performance. I think the stars are aligned now for either Mason or Billy to partner Kova for a game or two in the pivot while Kante is injured and Jorgeeh has a cool down period. Let's mix it up and see what happens.

For all the positives Jorginho brings to the team. More forward thinking players like Billy and Mason could be the missing spark from the pivot. As long as they can provide the back 3 with some protection.

What positives? 😂

In league games since Tuchel arrived, Chelsea have been the best team in the league defensively when looking at the non-penalty xG against per game, but rank just 12th for non-penalty xG in attack. They’ve scored nine non-penalty goals under him in the league, level with relegation-candidate neighbours Fulham and only more than Crystal Palace (8), Sheffield United (7) and Wolves (5).

I honestly don't know why we are talking about rotation/resting players as if that the issue vs wba. Had we lose against West Ham I would understand. It was a side in the relegation zone who we should be beating but a few errors from players cost us. 

1 hour ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I honestly don't know why we are talking about rotation/resting players as if that the issue vs wba. Had we lose against West Ham I would understand. It was a side in the relegation zone who we should be beating but a few errors from players cost us. 

There is no excuse for those errors, I wouldn't put in the starting lineup against Porto the following players that did very poorly overall in defense: T.Silva, Jorginho, Alonso and Zouma. Given their poor shape that would be very, very risky.

We made West Brom look so comfortable as they pressed us and let us have the ball anyway but Porto is a much more capable squad when it comes to being clinical and pressing.

18 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In league games since Tuchel arrived, Chelsea have been the best team in the league defensively when looking at the non-penalty xG against per game, but rank just 12th for non-penalty xG in attack. They’ve scored nine non-penalty goals under him in the league, level with relegation-candidate neighbours Fulham and only more than Crystal Palace (8), Sheffield United (7) and Wolves (5).

Do you have the numbers for how it looked when he first arrived?

6 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Do you have the numbers for how it looked when he first arrived?

I don't, I literally copied and pasted that stat from an article on The Athletic about our interest in Haaland. 

A lack of goals from open play has been a concern of mine since Tuchel took over and I thought that stat helped emphasise that point. 

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I don't, I literally copied and pasted that stat from an article on The Athletic about our interest in Haaland. 

A lack of goals from open play has been a concern of mine since Tuchel took over and I thought that stat helped emphasise that point. 

I agree with that.

I just don't recall it being much better earlier on in the season. The lack of output from our attackers have been a problem since the start of the season and certainly towards the end of Lampards reign there wasn't anything that worked offensively either.

17 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I just don't recall it being much better earlier on in the season. 

Look back at the first three months of the season we socred 3+ goals in a game on 9 occassions. 

This squad is capable of scoring goals but neither Lampard or Tuchel (so far) have found a balance between defensive solidity and attacking threat. 

Under Tuchel we've put great emphasis on the defence but it's been to the detriment of our attacking play to the point where we've quite toothless most matches going forward. 

We've struggled for goals since January last season when Tammy dropped off and we had to bring Giroud back. If not goals we have certainly struggled to create chances. It's the reason why we splashed the cash on Werner, Ziyech and Havertz who between them had a bucket load of goals and assists last season.

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Look back at the first three months of the season we socred 3+ goals in a game on 9 occassions. 

This squad is capable of scoring goals but neither Lampard or Tuchel (so far) have found a balance between defensive solidity and attacking threat. 

Under Tuchel we've put great emphasis on the defence but it's been to the detriment of our attacking play to the point where we've quite toothless most matches going forward. 

I agree with that. It's all about finding the right balance.

Lampard found the balance for a relatively short period of time but it all unraveled at the end. 

I think some are harsh on Tuchel so far. It's worth keeping in mind that we had an incredibly tough run of fixtures before the international break and to come out of that with the results we did was very, very impressive.

3 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I honestly don't know why we are talking about rotation/resting players as if that the issue vs wba.

Over-rotation of players is a problem for us because we have a new team with as many as 5-6 new players, of which apart from Mendy all the others are in and out of the team, none of them have really settled in. It feels like we bought a new car, but were still running it in. 

 

59 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I think some are harsh on Tuchel so far. It's worth keeping in mind that we had an incredibly tough run of fixtures before the international break and to come out of that with the results we did was very, very impressive.

Whats the point going on good runs against tough opposition, only to blow it against those lower down ? all that hard work thrown away is more demoralising than losing to the big guns,

6 minutes ago, coco said:

 

Whats the point going on good runs against tough opposition, only to blow it against those lower down ? all that hard work thrown away is more demoralising than losing to the big guns,

Spot on Coco. Losing any game is disappointing bit there is a way to do it, a respectable way where we gave our beat and were just undone by a good side playing really well or had bad luck.

Getting thrashed by West Brom...yeah all of those good results prior are forgotten because of that imo.

3 minutes ago, coco said:

 

Whats the point going on good runs against tough opposition, only to blow it against those lower down ? all that hard work thrown away is more demoralising than losing to the big guns,

I expect our results against the so called weaker teams to improve.

Tuchel has decided to rest players before CL and against Southampton, Leeds and WBA we suffered from that. If Tuchel somehow could have used his strongest XI every game I think we would have comfortably beat all of them but he needs to manage the squad. And unfortunately we have been let down by some of the squad-players when they had to feature.