Just now, Sindre said:

I expect our results against the so called weaker teams to improve.

Tuchel has decided to rest players before CL and against Southampton, Leeds and WBA we suffered from that. If Tuchel somehow could have used his strongest XI every game I think we would have comfortably beat all of them but he needs to manage the squad. And unfortunately we have been let down by some of the squad-players when they had to feature.

You call the performance or lack there of against WBA as a "let down"? I call it a hanging offence.

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

You call the performance or lack there of against WBA as a "let down"? I call it a hanging offence.

Massive let down. Mostly from Jorginho, Thiago Silva and Zouma.

It's hard for the manager to account for every mistake and on the day we were massively let down by some of the most experienced players in the side. 

 

36 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Tuchel has decided to rest players before CL and against Southampton, Leeds and WBA we suffered from that. 

And so if we fail to qualify for next seasons Champions League he's going to have to shoulder a lot of the blame. 

He's seemingly prioritised Europe over the league based on team selections which is a massive gamble given how tight the top 4 is. 

7 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And so if we fail to qualify for next seasons Champions League he's going to have to shoulder a lot of the blame. 

He's seemingly prioritised Europe over the league based on team selections which is a massive gamble given how tight the top 4 is. 

Don't disagree with that.

Although it didn't exactly look promising when he took over. Most of it would have to go on Lampard unfortunately.

24 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Don't disagree with that.

Although it didn't exactly look promising when he took over. Most of it would have to go on Lampard unfortunately.

Disagree with that. Had we continued to struggle it would go on Lamps but he improved our results, got us in top 4 on merit and beat some good teams. However his team selections and lack of motivational skills have played a part, not all blame but a part, in us taking 2 points from 3 very poor teams.

Hmm, I am not sure why everyone suddenly feel doom and gloom. Without Jorginho horror show we probably would have won the game easily especially because we managed to score first. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

And so if we fail to qualify for next seasons Champions League he's going to have to shoulder a lot of the blame. 

He's seemingly prioritised Europe over the league based on team selections which is a massive gamble given how tight the top 4 is. 

If we were challenging for the league I'd get the critisism but let's be honest he'd be hung drawn and quartered if he chucked this year's CL in favour of trying to qualify for the next one.

It's not his squad. TT didn't have a preseason to assess it or prepare it, to buy new players to replace the ones he had no use for.

He took over a team in crisis in the middle of the season, in the most difficult league in Europe at a time when the chase for top four places is the toughest, closest and the most competitive it has ever been. Add to it an extremely busy schedule and his tinkering is easily explained. Rotation is absolutely neccessary or he'll risk running his key players to the ground and lose them to injuries or exhaustion during the business end of the season.

This is his first loss since arrival and people have the nerve to whinge about it. If it was still Frank, it would have been all about players' errors and sh*t performances and arguments like " well, what can a manager do when experienced players make school boy mistakes, etc etc."

Doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticized when he deserves it, but within reason. On paper, even with rotation we should be beating West Brom and even with a man down our defensive setup shouldn't have fallen apart the way it did. Still, it's just one game. If people were willing to be very patient with Lampard they should at the very least extend the same courtesy to Tuchel.

Edited April 6, 20215 yr by abramovich

14 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Hmm, I am not sure why everyone suddenly feel doom and gloom. Without Jorginho horror show we probably would have won the game easily especially because we managed to score first. 

 

 

We scored first after a lucky deflection, if we defend like that vs Porto we will lose the game...

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We scored first after a lucky deflection, if we defend like that vs Porto we will lose the game...

What lucky deflection? 

I don't remember us defending poorly before that red card. I can guarantee us we will lose against Porto if we lose the ball in front of our box. 

I don't think criticising the manager for losing 5-2 at home to WBA should be considered being impatient, i don't recall people calling for him to be sacked or anything, some people are not impressed with him for other reasons, and they take this opportunity to point out certain things they feel Tuchel has got wrong, he even admitted it to be a wake up call himself. 

16 minutes ago, abramovich said:

It's not his squad. TT didn't have a preseason to assess it or prepare it, to buy new players to replace the ones he had no use for.

He took over a team in crisis in the middle of the season, in the most difficult league in Europe at a time when the chase for top four places is the toughest, closest and the most competitive it has ever been. Add to it an extremely busy schedule and his tinkering is easily explained. Rotation is absolutely neccessary or he'll risk running his key players to the ground and lose them to injuries or exhaustion during the business end of the season.

This is his first loss since arrival and people have the nerve to whinge about it. If it was still Frank, it would have been all about players' errors and sh*t performances and arguments like " well, what can a manager do when experienced players make school boy mistakes, etc etc."

Doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticized when he deserves it, but within reason. On paper, even with rotation we should be beating West Brom and even with a man down our defensive setup shouldn't have fallen apart the way it did. Still, it's just one game. If people were willing to be very patient with Lampard they should at the very least extend the same courtesy to Tuchel.

Hmm nope. 

Fans will be more patient with Lamp because 

A. He is frank Lampard 

B. We were trying to play fast pace football with Lamp. 

With Tuchel, you can tell there is a big portion of fans who detest this slow, defensive, passive possession football hence only result that can make them stay patient once the result is off, everyone will start complaining

 

26 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

What lucky deflection? 

I don't remember us defending poorly before that red card. I can guarantee us we will lose against Porto if we lose the ball in front of our box. 

Our first goal - came after a lucky deflection.

So if Porto comes to our box we lose the game...

15 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Hmm nope. 

Fans will be more patient with Lamp because 

A. He is frank Lampard 

B. We were trying to play fast pace football with Lamp. 

With Tuchel, you can tell there is a big portion of fans who detest this slow, defensive, passive possession football hence only result that can make them stay patient once the result is off, everyone will start complaining

 

I would agree with this to a degree. There was more willingness from many to show patience with Frank because he was a club legend, and also had to work last season under constraints. He made plenty of errors but we all understood he was still learning, and there was an aim to play decent attacking football even our defending left a lot to be desired at times.

Tuchel is probably held to higher expectations since he came with plenty of experience and some pedigree. I also agree people in general are likely to tolerate low-entertainment football if the results are good (e.g. Jose in recent times) but as soon as the results go wrong those same fans are likely to turn more quickly. So far under Tuchel the defending has mostly been excellent but the attacking play has been uninspiring. I am hoping he will be able to improve that side of our game over time. Until then the results were be important for him.

52 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we were challenging for the league I'd get the critisism but let's be honest he'd be hung drawn and quartered if he chucked this year's CL in favour of trying to qualify for the next one.

As a fan I care more about the participation in this year's competitions (including FA Cup) than I do about qualification for next season's Champions League. Having said that I am not on the board. Ultimately they will judge Tuchel  on his overall return for this season. Lets say we make final of the Champions League but lose, and also miss out on top 4, I am not sure that the board will show Tuchel much understanding. They will look upon that as lost revenue. If we had lost the final to Bayern in 2012 then I highly doubt RDM would have been in charge the following season, despite a great run to get us there, and the FA Cup win.

No one is calling for Tuchel to be sacked, unlike some were with Lampard. Some are really annoyed at how we lost against one of the worst teams of the PL. It was down to players' lack of concentration, or a "we are so much better than them" attitude that made them go onto the pitch as if they had won already before kick off. I said it before, I thought the line up was strong on paper, I understand the rotation (to a certain point, I think Tuchel is changing too many players from game to game) and thought that we should still have beat them comfortably. Tuchel cannot foresee the stupidity of Jorginho, the recklessness of Silva, or the lack of composure when defending with 10 men. But I think he is still guilty of underestimating the PL and not taking seriously enough the mid-low table teams, and game mismanagement especially when we had to dig in and defend with 10 men, or when he had to substitute Jorginho in the first place.

10 minutes ago, forbzy said:

As a fan I care more about the participation in this year's competitions (including FA Cup) than I do about qualification for next season's Champions League. Having said that I am not on the board. Ultimately they will judge Tuchel  on his overall return for this season. Lets say we make final of the Champions League but lose, and also miss out on top 4, I am not sure that the board will show Tuchel much understanding. They will look upon that as lost revenue. If we had lost the final to Bayern in 2012 then I highly doubt RDM would have been in charge the following season, despite a great run to get us there, and the FA Cup win.

I'll never be able to prove it but my theory around RDM is Roman gave him the full time job to not ruin the post Munich summer in the sun (imagine if the RDM/Rafa switch was made days after that night). I don't think that night changed his mind about Robbie going forward even slightly.

I think if we get to the final that will give the players clear belief they can compete at this level even if they have to wait another year until their next shot at it to which point we will have two years more experience as a group.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

If we were challenging for the league I'd get the critisism but let's be honest he'd be hung drawn and quartered if he chucked this year's CL in favour of trying to qualify for the next one.

But it doesn't have to be one or the other. 

On more than one occasion now Tuchel has selected fringe players for league fixtures prior to European matches. He's got to shoulder some blame for the dropped points against lower table sides due to his team selections on the day. 

46 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'll never be able to prove it but my theory around RDM is Roman gave him the full time job to not ruin the post Munich summer in the sun (imagine if the RDM/Rafa switch was made days after that night). I don't think that night changed his mind about Robbie going forward even slightly.

I think if we get to the final that will give the players clear belief they can compete at this level even if they have to wait another year until their next shot at it to which point we will have two years more experience as a group.

I agree with that approach. Even if we get knocked out by Porto the players have gained more experience in the Champions League this season which will serve them well in future. That being said the board will not want to lose any revenue from a season or more out of the Champions League so I am not sure where their priorities would be.

As some have said no one has called for TT to be sacked.

However those of us who supported Lamps and were willing to go throw the growing pains to give him time have had it rammed down our throats by some members how wrong we were to think that and the great run we were on prior to saturday and the Atletico results proved we were wrong.

Yet some of those same memebrs have had nothing to say after saturday. A defeat far worse than any we suffered under Frank. A complete humiliation with defending as bad as Frank produced with a toothless attack against a exceptionally poor opponent.

Not to mention we kept hearing how Frank was tactically inept. He was married to the one system and could not adapt. So how did TT do to adapt to the red card? Stuck to his guns.

There is no excuse for TT or the players for that and backs up what some of us said. This side are not good enough, certainly not mentally and it was not all Frank's fault.

Edited April 6, 20215 yr by axman2526

Let's not kid ourselves, we all know TT won't be around for very long, if we don't win or look like winning anything he won't last his 18 month contract, surely he knows this and may be prioritising the champions league

16 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

However those of us who supported Lamps and were willing to go throw the growing pains to give him time have had it rammed down our throats by some members how wrong we were to think that and the great run we were on prior to saturday and the Atletico results proved we were wrong.

Yet some of those same memebrs have had nothing to say after saturday. A defeat far worse than any we suffered under Frank. A complete humiliation with defending as bad as Frank produced with a toothless attack against a exceptionally poor opponent.

Perhaps some have been like that but there have also been some, myself included that didn't want Lampard to be sacked but that still manage to acknowledge the great work Tuchel have done so far. It's perfectly possible to do both those things at the same time.

In many ways I think you have it the wrong way around and that many who supported Lampard can't quite come to terms with the fact that he's sacked and that his replacement have done very well. So they "jump" on him in many ways at the first possible opportunity. Very, very few jumped on Lampard at the first possible opportunity of which there were many.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Our first goal - came after a lucky deflection.

Our first goal was a good finish from a player doing what average players should by following in a shot in to the box to take advantage of any scraps. It was more unlucky their keeper got fingers to it and denied Alonso a good goal!

18 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Perhaps some have been like that but there have also been some, myself included that didn't want Lampard to be sacked but that still manage to acknowledge the great work Tuchel have done so far. It's perfectly possible to do both those things at the same time.

In many ways I think you have it the wrong way around and that many who supported Lampard can't quite come to terms with the fact that he's sacked and that his replacement have done very well. So they "jump" on him in many ways at the first possible opportunity. Very, very few jumped on Lampard at the first possible opportunity of which there were many.

Dont see many who have jumped on him without cause. Frank would have been heavy criticized by us all had he produced that sort of display and result against West Brom. He got it a fair amount for our first half against them away.

There are two in particular who have not been around who gloated about being "right" on Frank's sacking. Not going to name name but many on here know who they are.

Fact is I want TT to succeed. At the very least though i dont expect us to be embarrassed at home by a pub team like Saturday. That is rightly seeing everyone involved getting hammer for it.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Dont see many who have jumped on him without cause. Frank would have been heavy criticized by us all had he produced that sort of display and result against West Brom. He got it a fair amount for our first half against them away.

There are two in particular who have not been around who gloated about being "right" on Frank's sacking. Not going to name name but many on here know who they are.

Fact is I want TT to succeed. At the very least though i dont expect us to be embarrassed at home by a pub team like Saturday. That is rightly seeing everyone involved getting hammer for it.

Sure, if you look at 2-5 versus WBA in isolation the result is as bad as any during Lampards time here. But still, it's one game lost. You've lost the three points whether you lose by a goal in overtime or by three as we were on the day.

Lampard only won 3 of our first 9 games this season. I'd imagine people would really be on Tuchel's back if he had that kind of a run but I don't remember there being that much pressure on Lampard even after losing to Tottenham coming off a draw against WBA and a loss against Liverpool at home before that. After that we beat Crystal Palace before we went on another run of three games without a win.

Not saying you can't criticise Tuchel for the result on Saturday. He made a few mistakes, though the biggest ones  came from those on the pitch. Jorginho and T.Silva lost their heads and us the three points in the process and it was always going to be a difficult afternoon with 10 men against WBA who had about three weeks to prepare while our lads were traveling around the world and playing a lot of games.

It's just a bit tiring when some get overly focused on the one sh*t result and seem to forget the multiple great ones we have had so far under Tuchel.