40 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Honestly the officiating has to be mentioned, let's be honest no one wants to blame the ref when they lose it sounds petty and is a standard excuse for underachieving. However, in some scenarios a ref single handedly decides a fixture and this ref was very complicit in this defeat.

Throughout this season we have had some shocking fouls against us in the box go unpunished the Werner one though is a head scratcher.

Doesn't get the ball, makes contact inside the box not even given a second review of the incident. If that's us on them 100% a yellow card not to mention how is that any different than what Thiago did to get sent off. We cannot give one and not the other it makes no sense. I had to rewatch it again just to make sure I'm not overreacting I'll be honest if that's not a pen I'll hold my hands up and say I don't know the rules of football anymore.

I’d say that Timo’s is more of a fault han what Silva did. I don’t think Silva’s a faul, to be honest, or very marginally for the way he falls, but he’s got no intention than to launch himself to block the shot, never made contact with the player. West Brom’s defender got Timo’s ankle studs full on it. Clear penalty and yellow. The ref gave them a clear hand, but that doesn’t explain why we let in 5 by a relegation fodder team.

One thing I really dislike is his whole "we must not lose our heads" response to this result. He should be smashing tea cups, blasting himself for the line up and subs and blasting the team for being thrashed by a garbage outfit.

I get it if it was City that did us like that, fair enough accept we are a working on it and they are a cut above us. It was West Brom though, dont just brush it under the carpet and act like "oh well sh*t happens"

The public message could be very different to what he is saying to the players. I'm sure he must have had words with a few or maybe not and he just drops them.

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

One thing I really dislike is his whole "we must not lose our heads" response to this result. He should be smashing tea cups, blasting himself for the line up and subs and blasting the team for being thrashed by a garbage outfit.

I get it if it was City that did us like that, fair enough accept we are a working on it and they are a cut above us. It was West Brom though, dont just brush it under the carpet and act like "oh well sh*t happens"

I think this is more for the fans as well as the players. Publicly to remain calm, so we lost and got spanked so what? It took 15 games and a red card for a team to score 2+ goals and beat the system he devised. Not to mention the players he counts on most were not all playing. This game has to be viewed as anomaly the more we dwell on it the more it seeps doubt into our minds.

After the next 2 gameweeks and this UCL round we will look back and either see this was a warning or just a bump on the road. The crucial thing is to remain together and not turn on each other ( I'm guessing this all from his perspective) otherwise we would have wasted these 3 months of so called progress.

4 hours ago, forbzy said:

I hope you are right and I agree time will tell. The true test of a team's personality is how they react to adversity. Yesterday's game was really the first time that plan A went wrong on the pitch since Tuchel arrived, and there were no good answers. Hopefully just a bad day at the office but we have seen this scenario unravel a few times in recent times. By comparison I think back to the game against West Ham under Jose when we found ourselves a goal down and with 10 players. The reaction then was very different because the team was full of leaders.

Yeah I think a setback like this was inevitable  but it’s too early to judge TT and the team’s ability to react or not to an adverse situation. rather than making predictions based on analogues / patterns from the past, why not give him / them the benefit of the doubt for now? I think we can more or less agree on that. 
 

As for the instance you mention vs West Ham - 1) fair enough, but was there never a similar situation where we DIDN’T react as well? Might you therefore be cherrypicking to a degree? 2) ok, so the team back then was stronger with more leaders on the pitch etc. But we knew that already. 
 

Final point. I’m not levelling this at you at all, but i think if we as fans are going to talk about and demand character / leadership etc from our players, we kind of owe it to ourselves to try and look through one bad result. 

Cannot speak for an highly paid expierence football manager but as a fan that was a humiliating expierence and I want our manager and players to feel awful about it. To be anger and apologetic for it and admit losing to such a team like that is completely unacceptable.

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

The public message could be very different to what he is saying to the players. I'm sure he must have had words with a few or maybe not and he just drops them.

I think this is more for the fans as well as the players. Publicly to remain calm, so we lost and got spanked so what? It took 15 games and a red card for a team to score 2+ goals and beat the system he devised. Not to mention the players he counts on most were not all playing. This game has to be viewed as anomaly the more we dwell on it the more it seeps doubt into our minds.

After the next 2 gameweeks and this UCL round we will look back and either see this was a warning or just a bump on the road. The crucial thing is to remain together and not turn on each other ( I'm guessing this all from his perspective) otherwise we would have wasted these 3 months of so called progress.

 

I guess we’ll see whether the new manager bounce is over or not. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Cannot speak for an highly paid expierence football manager but as a fan that was a humiliating expierence and I want our manager and players to feel awful about it. To be anger and apologetic for it and admit losing to such a team like that is completely unacceptable.

 

He did the anger/ruthless thing at Southampton and was accused of throwing the players under the bus.

18 minutes ago, Argo said:

He did the anger/ruthless thing at Southampton and was accused of throwing the players under the bus.

You don’t throw stones in a greenhouse. His own performance left a lot to be desired. 

On 03/04/2021 at 14:38, PloKoon13 said:

Well... not his finest hour.

I suppose we learned that our entire structure is decimated when we lose a player. Other teams seem far more adaptable - on the other hand we got spitroasted at home against West Brom.

It's hard to draw any real conclusions about his ability to react to going behind (considering it basically hadn't happened before now and we were down to ten men and a complete mess), but initial signs are that a) he reacts quite slowly and b) his emphasis is on restoring linkup options in the opposition half as opposed to someone legitimately likely to score. Werner, if he maintains his current level of marksmanship, could become a real problem...

Werners current level of markmanship is already a major problem. He's either completely shot of confidence or just really not that good. In some circles he's getting credit for being unselfish by passing to Mason for his goal, but to me he bottled it and took the easy option, pass it and duck responsibility. 

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

I guess we’ll see whether the new manager bounce is over or not. 

Yes. Games are coming thick and fast. So we will be able to determine that pretty quickly.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

He did the anger/ruthless thing at Southampton and was accused of throwing the players under the bus.

You are correct but if I remember right that was because he specifically picked out Hudson-Odoi who was subbed as a sub. It is interesting that he wouldn't single out more experienced players when they have stinkers. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

He did the anger/ruthless thing at Southampton and was accused of throwing the players under the bus.

Yesterday Jorginho had not come on as a sub and was having a nightmare of a game, unlike CHO against Southampton.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

He did the anger/ruthless thing at Southampton and was accused of throwing the players under the bus.

Due to CHO not being great but nowhere near the levels deserving to be subbed as a sub. For example Jorgi could have been hooked at 25 minutes yesterday and me and gol would have both said "good call, he has deserved that".

Personally his interview should have been far more like Artetas was, and included an apology. We can lose games, it happens. If we had lost 1-2 I would still be very unhappy with it but to be thrashed at home by WBA is not on under any circumstance and that should be recognized publically.

Hold your hands up, plain and honest. You can simply say "I have little to say, other than congratulations to West Brom on an incredible result and I apologize to everyone at Chelsea for this unacceptable and embaressing result. This should never, ever happen and on behalf of myself and the team we got it badly wrong and we are sorry".

3 early kick offs against very beatable teams, 7 points dropped, in each game a ‘weakened’ team has been put out.

TT needs to learn now, this is a tough league with different styles of play & players that will battle to the very end.

This performance by both players & manager wasn’t remotely good enough, but as many have found out to their cost, the buck stops with the manager!

I guess perhaps Tuchel realised that he can’t do what he did in Paris, put out a weakened team and still get 3 points comfortably.

Premier League is full of twists and potential banana skins, no matter who we face.

I think one of my biggest frustrations on Saturday was Tuchel's reluctance to move away from the 3 at the back. 

Feels like we're already locked into a particular system already regardless of how we're playing. 

I also feel like the hefty rotation has caught up with us in recent matches against Leeds and WBA we looked well off the pace with a much changed team. 

Makes you wonder if after a couple of months with the squad Tuchel still has no idea what his preferred XI is. 

6 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I think one of my biggest frustrations on Saturday was Tuchel's reluctance to move away from the 3 at the back. 

Feels like we're already locked into a particular system already regardless of how we're playing. 

I also feel like the hefty rotation has caught up with us in recent matches against Leeds and WBA we looked well off the pace with a much changed team. 

Makes you wonder if after a couple of months with the squad Tuchel still has no idea what his preferred XI is. 

We can't play a preffered Xl at the minute, if we get past Porto we have a schedule even more full on than the restart from now until the end, not even Mendy will be able to play them all.

In terms of rotation I've always believed there's one of two ways to go about it. One is the Jose 1.0 way of have an untouchable spine and rotate around it or the Fergie way of rotate rotate rotate for the first 2/3rds of the season then play the best Xl for the business end.

Up until Saturday Tuchel had a full grip on both reins, i was rather enjoying being able to switch off and relax thinking we were in good hands. That feeling has vanished after one defeat, i can only assume that it will also affect the players, reports of unrest on the training pitch post WBA, all this days before our biggest game in over half a decade.

No doubt at all that the honeymoon is over, but i just hope this isn't the start of his funeral, he needs to remember you are only ever 4-5 games away from the sack at this club.

1 hour ago, coco said:

Up until Saturday Tuchel had a full grip on both reins, i was rather enjoying being able to switch off and relax thinking we were in good hands. That feeling has vanished after one defeat, i can only assume that it will also affect the players, reports of unrest on the training pitch post WBA, all this days before our biggest game in over half a decade.

No doubt at all that the honeymoon is over, but i just hope this isn't the start of his funeral, he needs to remember you are only ever 4-5 games away from the sack at this club.

Indeed Coco, bubble well and truley burst, trampled on and smashed under the giant dinosaur that is Big Sam.

2 hours ago, coco said:

Up until Saturday Tuchel had a full grip on both reins, i was rather enjoying being able to switch off and relax thinking we were in good hands. That feeling has vanished after one defeat, i can only assume that it will also affect the players, reports of unrest on the training pitch post WBA, all this days before our biggest game in over half a decade.

No doubt at all that the honeymoon is over, but i just hope this isn't the start of his funeral, he needs to remember you are only ever 4-5 games away from the sack at this club.

The alleged training game incident involved 2 players who weren't involved on Saturday. Nevertheless it is bad timing on the back of a terrible result and performance, and in advance of a big game on Wednesday. We all know from previous experience that things can change very quickly at Chelsea. Lamps went from a long unbeaten run and top of the table, to the sack within a month.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

We can't play a preffered Xl 

Even if we could (which I largely think we can). Who can you honestly say would be Tuchel's preferred picks? 

One minute players seem in favour, the next they barely play at all (CHO mainly) . Players seem on the fringes then suddenly starting more games than not (Pulisic, Ziyech). Werner apparently isn't suited to playing as a 9, then is mainly getting starts in that position. 

I think Tuchel has laid some decent foundations for a team but he also seems like he can be his own worst enemy with regards to rotation/team selection and not wanting to stray from three at the back. 

We were 1-0 up when we went to 10 men, it was just so reactionary to bring on a defender.

Hindsight is wonderful thing, but letting the team settle for 5 minutes would seem a sensible move to me?

Lets not forget a big part of TTs appointment was his coaching abilities and in game management.

Time to earn your corn TT.

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Lamps went from a long unbeaten run and top of the table, to the sack within a month.

Yes he did, and that run was quickly forgotten when shade was thrown on him for his lack of experience and tactical know how. TT came in and showed strength in both those categories, yet is hard to look past our defending and organisation on saturday was worse than anything we produced under Lamps. Which brings me back to the drum I have beaten for a while, these players are not as good as some believe as they are mentally weak and perform when they can be bothered.

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yes he did, and that run was quickly forgotten when shade was thrown on him for his lack of experience and tactical know how. TT came in and showed strength in both those categories, yet is hard to look past our defending and organisation on saturday was worse than anything we produced under Lamps. Which brings me back to the drum I have beaten for a while, these players are not as good as some believe as they are mentally weak and perform when they can be bothered.

Players like Alonso were identified as weaknesses by Lampard and pushed to the periphery of the squad. Tuchel restored Alonso with some decent returns initially. But I would prefer to see Chilwell given a chance. He may be less experienced at LWB but he is a better defender and will improve with experience. 

12 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Players like Alonso were identified as weaknesses by Lampard and pushed to the periphery of the squad. Tuchel restored Alonso with some decent returns initially. But I would prefer to see Chilwell given a chance. He may be less experienced at LWB but he is a better defender and will improve with experience. 

If we're going to play wingbacks full time Alonso should be a back up and Chilwell should be an option for LCB.

We will need to use the market for a starting LWB or failing that hope CHO or even Pulisic can pull it off.