Get used to it Tommy. When this group of players decide they like you they will make you look good, but when they decide they dont and no longer give a toss you get thrashed by pub teams with a dinosaur of a manager who is pissing himself laughing and gloating at all our expenses.

Dont think any blame comes on TT for the line up. Probably does for the subs. West Brom made 2 for injuries, we should of for both Jorginho and Silva before the 25 minute as both were terrible.

When you lose and get thrashed by a WBA then everyone gets shade thrown their way.

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

Yeah I think so - unless it all go completely wrong. He’s shown enough to be here next season. 
 

1st loss in 14 games. Given where we were, I think we would have take that. The manner of the defeat hurts but we would have expected a loss in the first 14 games. Need to restart now as we’re at the business end of the season 

29 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Yeah I think so - unless it all go completely wrong. He’s shown enough to be here next season. 
 

1st loss in 14 games. Given where we were, I think we would have take that. The manner of the defeat hurts but we would have expected a loss in the first 14 games. Need to restart now as we’re at the business end of the season 

Everyone would have taken that. 

Tuchel will be here next season. There is no doubt.

Those who have decided they don't like him will have to get over it I suppose.

Second goal before the break was the game decider. We were out of breath and not able to keep up with their pressing, someone should had the common sense or game experience to kick the ball out , so we could catch a breath and reset. I'm sure if the score was even, our game plan would change in the second half, just sit back a bit deeper and don't try to play out as much as we used to. Once we were trailing, we had to keep pressing and here comes the beating. Granted there was no excuse to get smashed like that, but once you are chasing the game with a man down, this kind of score could happen. Apart from the Silva madness, there was the moment after his sending off, we got on a fast break out of the free kick, it was like 3 on 3 or something and Ziyech just passed the ball straight to the GK from half way line, that was another game changing moment. I'm sure Tuchel will learn his lesson from his game. In a season full of madness, think we could let this game go and judge him at the end of the season.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

100% he will.

6 hours ago, forbzy said:

I agree the timing of the 2 goals before ht was terrible. But a team with perosonality and leadership generally deals with this sort of adversity and doesn't collapse. Unfortunately our current squad is lacking in both aspects.

I disagree with this Forbzy. You’ve now said 1) our squad just isn’t good enough and 2) on top of that we lack personality / leadership. If both those things are true, it’s a miracle we’ve won any games at all, let alone beat Liverpool, Everton, Tottenham, and Atletico twice.
 

I don’t think it was lack of desire that was our undoing yesterday, but rather lapses in concentration and unfortunate events. I’d say desire / team spirit etc have been one of the positives. It was just one of those games imo. Again - time will tell.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

There's a lot of variables to consider with that.

1. The performance of the team in the remaining games.

2. How far we finished behind the top four

3. If we get any other horror shows like yesterday.

4. Player power.

5. What other managers are available.

6. What side of the bed Roman gets out of.

 

The last one is probably the most important. Outside top four, no Champions League, would any sane person bet a penny on Tuchel being here next season with our owner? I wouldn't.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

I personally am not 100% sure ge will,probably get slaughtered but I have always felt he is a stop gap.

I really hate going back to Frank,but if he had Tuchel's defensive team I don't feel there would be a great difference in results we have had.

1 hour ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Second goal before the break was the game decider. We were out of breath and not able to keep up with their pressing, someone should had the common sense or game experience to kick the ball out , so we could catch a breath and reset. I'm sure if the score was even, our game plan would change in the second half, just sit back a bit deeper and don't try to play out as much as we used to. Once we were trailing, we had to keep pressing and here comes the beating. Granted there was no excuse to get smashed like that, but once you are chasing the game with a man down, this kind of score could happen. Apart from the Silva madness, there was the moment after his sending off, we got on a fast break out of the free kick, it was like 3 on 3 or something and Ziyech just passed the ball straight to the GK from half way line, that was another game changing moment. I'm sure Tuchel will learn his lesson from his game. In a season full of madness, think we could let this game go and judge him at the end of the season.

I think this is spot on.

30 minutes ago, Bluesince66 said:

I really hate going back to Frank,but if he had Tuchel's defensive team I don't feel there would be a great difference in results we have had.

Lampard had the same players at his disposal though?

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Lampard had the same players at his disposal though?

Yes but obviously not an adept coach to sort them.

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Second goal before the break was the game decider. We were out of breath and not able to keep up with their pressing, someone should had the common sense or game experience to kick the ball out , so we could catch a breath and reset. I'm sure if the score was even, our game plan would change in the second half, just sit back a bit deeper and don't try to play out as much as we used to. Once we were trailing, we had to keep pressing and here comes the beating. Granted there was no excuse to get smashed like that, but once you are chasing the game with a man down, this kind of score could happen. Apart from the Silva madness, there was the moment after his sending off, we got on a fast break out of the free kick, it was like 3 on 3 or something and Ziyech just passed the ball straight to the GK from half way line, that was another game changing moment. I'm sure Tuchel will learn his lesson from his game. In a season full of madness, think we could let this game go and judge him at the end of the season.

Honestly the first 2 goals that we conceded were after some real amateur defending moments - that long ball from the keeper resulting in a clear-cut chance and a goal is just pathetic defending from us and then the second goal we had at least 3 players that got totally outplayed. Hope Tuchel has the time to fix the lack of concentration and just pure defending before the Porto game.

26 minutes ago, Bluesince66 said:

Yes but obviously not an adept coach to sort them.

Okay but then he simply wasn't ready at this point. Because building a strong defence is the foundation for any team challenging for the big titles.

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

Interesting question that. The fact we only gave him 18 months suggests we gave him the appointment with a little trepidation. I would guess there might be a break clause for both sides at the end of the season. The job won't be as attractive if there is little money available for strengthening to Thomas. Similarly many more horror performances like yesterday by him and the team and the board may not see him as the long term candidate, winning runs are good but as we saw with Frank a few bad weeks can easily taint previous performance. The season starts on Wednesday and these few games will determine a lot for our long term future.

58 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Okay but then he simply wasn't ready at this point. Because building a strong defence is the foundation for any team challenging for the big titles.

Yes I agree he really wasn't ready 👍

7 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Serious question, do we think TT will still be here next season if we fail to make top 4 or win the CL?

At least for the start of the season, yes, and I hope that we stick with him for the whole season and see how it goes. 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Okay but then he simply wasn't ready at this point. Because building a strong defence is the foundation for any team challenging for the big titles.

We still had seven clean sheets under Lampard this season up until the most congested period of the season, with almost three games per week, and playing 4 at the back. We’ve been good defensively under Tuchel but we’ve been playing with fire against poor teams lately, and he’s not improved much the attacking front. I agree that Lampard was more inexperienced, but my god Tuchel yesterday did not show any experience against a team that is going down.

Some may think I’m having a dig at Tuchel because of Lampard. No, I’m not having a go at him, I thought the line up was decent and should have been enough to beat them. But he cannot control de idiocy fo some of our players, as Lampard could not either. For me it’s not entirely the coach’s fault but the individuals on the pitch that decide to start making basic mistakes, and yesterday Tuchel did not react well and wasn’t capable of changing the game plan. Not entirely his fault but needs to start winning convincingly low table teams.

I rewatched a lot of the goals scored yesterday. Trying to understand what went wrong. The conclusion I've come to is regardless of the red card the game plan didn't change. Score 1-2 goals more than the opp try to keep it tight.

We did what we've done for most of his tenure the main difference was the personnel. As bad as Jorginho was that game and make no mistake I can't defend this specific performance from him. The defense was absolutely horrendous.

Pretty much all of WBA goals came from a scenario inside the box in which we had more players inside the box. The marking was atrocious, I saw a lot of ball watching (Kurt was especially guilty of this) and we were conceeding in 6v3 7v4 scenarios not including the goalkeeper that's unforgivable from a defensive pov.

I don't think TT could do much about this, like many have said before welcome to the real Chelsea Tom because when things don't follow the script there has been a recent trend these past 4 years for us to completely collapse.

Of all the games we have played under TT I would say we have made mistakes in all of them but none were really majors other than Rudiger's OG and Kurt's lack of concentration for Southampton's goal.

In this game we made Majors throughout the game. The most damning was the red card. This led to us being all over the place.

I'm convinced even if we get beat again this season it won't be anything like this. TT knows who can be counted on now and who is a liability.

Also starting to wonder about Mendy because a few of those goals were savable imho. Its easy for me to say that as an observer but I think at least two he should have done better. Whilst he has kept clean sheets its not like he has done it in the same manner as Cech. He often doesn't need to make more than 3 saves a game which means he hardly ever has to work as hard as other top keepers.

5 hours ago, Dean said:

I disagree with this Forbzy. You’ve now said 1) our squad just isn’t good enough and 2) on top of that we lack personality / leadership. If both those things are true, it’s a miracle we’ve won any games at all, let alone beat Liverpool, Everton, Tottenham, and Atletico twice.
 

I don’t think it was lack of desire that was our undoing yesterday, but rather lapses in concentration and unfortunate events. I’d say desire / team spirit etc have been one of the positives. It was just one of those games imo. Again - time will tell.

I hope you are right and I agree time will tell. The true test of a team's personality is how they react to adversity. Yesterday's game was really the first time that plan A went wrong on the pitch since Tuchel arrived, and there were no good answers. Hopefully just a bad day at the office but we have seen this scenario unravel a few times in recent times. By comparison I think back to the game against West Ham under Jose when we found ourselves a goal down and with 10 players. The reaction then was very different because the team was full of leaders.

5 hours ago, just said:

There's a lot of variables to consider with that.

1. The performance of the team in the remaining games.

2. How far we finished behind the top four

3. If we get any other horror shows like yesterday.

4. Player power.

5. What other managers are available.

6. What side of the bed Roman gets out of.

 

The last one is probably the most important. Outside top four, no Champions League, would any sane person bet a penny on Tuchel being here next season with our owner? I wouldn't.

Well put, I agree on that.

3 hours ago, charierre said:

Interesting question that. The fact we only gave him 18 months suggests we gave him the appointment with a little trepidation. I would guess there might be a break clause for both sides at the end of the season. The job won't be as attractive if there is little money available for strengthening to Thomas. Similarly many more horror performances like yesterday by him and the team and the board may not see him as the long term candidate, winning runs are good but as we saw with Frank a few bad weeks can easily taint previous performance. The season starts on Wednesday and these few games will determine a lot for our long term future.

Again top answer. That contract certainly does leave me wondering.

Rightly or wrongly I get the impression Roman does not appreciate seeing his team embarrassed, even less so to a Dog and Duck side with a disgraced ex England manager that is laughing in his face. 

As good as TT has done, and he has done really well, all of that bar the Atletico games imo are now buried under this sham of a game and result.

As embarassing as that result was for us I think it was one of those days where everything that could've gone wrong for us actually did. What was more disappointing for me was some of the decisions Tuchel made when we had to chase the game however I think he is the sort of coach who will learn from this, I really hope the club is querying with the Fa about the level of officiating in our games. Against Sheffield they were given the license to kick the sh*t out of Pulisic and yesterday the officiating was hugely inconsistent with a number of challenges from WBA going unchallenged yet Silva is sent off for 2 fouls. 

38 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Well put, I agree on that.

Again top answer. That contract certainly does leave me wondering.

Rightly or wrongly I get the impression Roman does not appreciate seeing his team embarrassed, even less so to a Dog and Duck side with a disgraced ex England manager that is laughing in his face. 

As good as TT has done, and he has done really well, all of that bar the Atletico games imo are now buried under this sham of a game and result.

In a game of probability and endless possibilities TT approached the game wrong not from kick off imo I think his theory was sound. But, the moment Thiago got sent off he should have recognised Jorginho was having a bad game and being targeted for the press.

Now sadly lots of things went against TT this game; the red, no pen check for challenge on Werner(VAR is a joke at this point), no card to put WBA def under pressure when they fouled Puli not to mention Puli our scorer going off injured.

If the reports are to be believed he wanted to take Werner off for Mount but instead had to take Puli b/c he was injured. This is the first mistake imho, I'm unsure of Ziyech for Andreas because as people have said before J5 could have gone off and Hakim could have slipped further back to help Kova.

However, by half time TT should have recognised J5 needed to come off and Mount should be swapped for him not an attacker since he can provide energy from the pivot and help stop us from getting overrun.

My only issue with the starting 11 and this is retrospectively is no Rudi next to Silva. I saw somewhere someone mentioned the def was changed too much and if Thiago didn't have to cover so much for Zouma and J5 he wouldn't have been sent off.

Having Rudi next to him (who he played alongside when he was part of our unbeaten run) would have been better in terms of team consistency and chemistry. He was rested with Porto in mind and that made sense at the time but looking back now anyone other than Kurt next to Silva and the def is a level better.

Not to mention Mount needed a rest if not for the international break I think Kante starts this next to Kova and J5 is rested for UCL. Let's not forget they had much longer to prep for this match with their whole squad and probably came with a set game plan they executed.

I'm a firm believer in the concept that we our the architects of our own downfall and Chelsea demonstrated that yesterday. After going 1-0 up we hit self destruct.

With regards to Thomas Tuchel for now at least for me he gets a free pass, he will take responsibility and he should but I don't blame him for this result because I saw so many individual errors that I for one could not have forseen before this match and I highly doubt he would have himself.

Taken into context an early kick off, first match back after the international break, a mid week UCL quarter final match, the introduction of a previously injured vet and unbeaten in 15 games. Our momentum was broken, constant individual errors cost us and we failed to show the mentality required to get us back into the game like in the reverse game.

Makes you wonder though, who was making who look good during this unbeaten streak the team, the manager or the system? Because both the team and system got exposed today but it's imho too early to mention anything about the manager.

So as far as I stand In Tuchel I trust.

23 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

As embarassing as that result was for us I think it was one of those days where everything that could've gone wrong for us actually did. What was more disappointing for me was some of the decisions Tuchel made when we had to chase the game however I think he is the sort of coach who will learn from this, I really hope the club is querying with the Fa about the level of officiating in our games. Against Sheffield they were given the license to kick the sh*t out of Pulisic and yesterday the officiating was hugely inconsistent with a number of challenges from WBA going unchallenged yet Silva is sent off for 2 fouls. 

Honestly the officiating has to be mentioned, let's be honest no one wants to blame the ref when they lose it sounds petty and is a standard excuse for underachieving. However, in some scenarios a ref single handedly decides a fixture and this ref was very complicit in this defeat.

Throughout this season we have had some shocking fouls against us in the box go unpunished the Werner one though is a head scratcher.

Doesn't get the ball, makes contact inside the box not even given a second review of the incident. If that's us on them 100% a yellow card not to mention how is that any different than what Thiago did to get sent off. We cannot give one and not the other it makes no sense. I had to rewatch it again just to make sure I'm not overreacting I'll be honest if that's not a pen I'll hold my hands up and say I don't know the rules of football anymore.