1 hour ago, dkw said:

Disagree with everything you just said, and I`m sure the majority of players would too. The whole point of football is to win, win games, win trophies. There are 4 trophies per season to win, 1 is almost impossible in the CL, 1 is very very difficult at the moment in the Premier League. The FA cup and league cup are 2 trophies we can win and should be trying to win every single season. Any win kicks a group of players on, look at the impact winning the League cup had on our team when Jose arrived. Wanting to get top 4 so we can enter a competition we have very little chance of winning the following season because we get some money and some new shiny players is just not what I see as entertaining and worthwhile.

But there's the memory's to go with CL aswell. We have enjoyed many a famous/emotional night in season's we didn't win it. We got to see the likes of Bayern, Barca and PSG downed at The Bridge, we got that night at Highbury, the emotional tribute to Lampard's mum when he gave us the lead against Liverpool, the Hiddink masterclass at Anfield, Dennis Wise at the San Siro, racing into that 3-0 less Vs Barca in 2000.

If someone hypothetically said those memory's get erased for a third Europa League it would be very much no deal for me.

I’ve got £50 on @Eight Times voting for top 4. Easy money. 

I always want trophies

Commentators so desperate for man u to win.. 

13 hours ago, dkw said:

Disagree with everything you just said, and I`m sure the majority of players would too. The whole point of football is to win, win games, win trophies. There are 4 trophies per season to win, 1 is almost impossible in the CL, 1 is very very difficult at the moment in the Premier League. The FA cup and league cup are 2 trophies we can win and should be trying to win every single season. Any win kicks a group of players on, look at the impact winning the League cup had on our team when Jose arrived. Wanting to get top 4 so we can enter a competition we have very little chance of winning the following season because we get some money and some new shiny players is just not what I see as entertaining and worthwhile.

You're totally missing the point or completely ignoring it just to be difficult.

Let me break down some of your points.

The way to turn CL and PL from impossible and very difficult to possible is by qualifying for the top 4. Winning the FA Cup and League Cup will not improve those chances. Remember this is based on our ambitious owner.

The whole point of Chelsea is to win the biggest trophies.

The league Cup is a bonus, when Jose won it both times, we were at those times clear favourites to win the league. Had we lost to Liverpool and Spurs respectively, I believe we still would have gone on to win the league.  We also won it in 2007 and it didn't help us then. Its just a trophy you enjoy at the time and forget about a week later.

The irony of all is top 4 brought the money and shiney new players that turned us from a cup side to a title winning champions league challenging side in the first place and I'm sure you enjoyed every single bit of it.

Edited February 9, 20215 yr by KonaKai Blue

I wonder who would want to go back in time and turn down Gronjkaers winner to secure top 4 and replace it with an FA Cup win in 2003. Who won it that year again?

Took the piss out of Arsenal for years for celebrating top 4 like a trophy and it got them nowhere. Always take the FA Cup over top 4 no questions asked, still remember the competition dearly from my first loss as in supporter in 94, semi final 96 and eventually winning in 97.  Please can the FA bring back neutral stadiums though, that was a part of the magic of the cup they took away.

54 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The league Cup is a bonus, when Jose won it both times, we were at those times clear favourites to win the league. Had we lost to Liverpool and Spurs respectively, I believe we still would have gone on to win the league.  We also won it in 2007 and it didn't help us then. Its just a trophy you enjoy at the time and forget about a week later.

I've never really brought the "win any trophy gives you the feel to win and kick on" either.

Arsenal since they've started winning FA Cups again have got worse overall, Liverpool never kicked on from trophy wins under Houllier/Rafa, Sevilla haven't exactly translated Europa dominance into sustained challenges in La Liga/CL amoungst other examples.

Winning a trophy early in the season like the league cup gives the players and the club a taste for success and they want more. It worked for Mourinho and Pep in the past and will probably be the same for Pep this year. That’s what I take from winning a competition and kicking on. 

4 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Took the piss out of Arsenal for years for celebrating top 4 like a trophy and it got them nowhere. Always take the FA Cup over top 4 no questions asked, 

We also take the piss out of Arsenal when they lord over their recent FA cup wins like they're back in the early Wenger days!

There's a big difference between us and Arsenal and that's what people seem to forget when making this inaccurate comparisons.

Arsenal actually did see finishing top 4 as akin to a trophy hence the Wenger comments and celebrations at Newcastle in 2013, we view it as a stepping stone to trying to win the competition (no matter how likely or unlikely it is, that's our aim as a club). For Arsenal getting top four is the holy grail, for us getting it is akin to a national team winning their world cup qualification group, couldn't make a more apples and oranges comparison if you tried.

Just now, Ernie_blue said:

Winning a trophy early in the season like the league cup gives the players and the club a taste for success and they want more. It worked for Mourinho and Pep in the past and will probably be the same for Pep this year. That’s what I take from winning a competition and kicking on. 

If that's true then why haven't Arsenal used their FA Cup wins of late to start challenging for titles again?

Why didn't Liverpool kick on from their "Mickey mouse treble" under Houllier?

Why haven't Sevilla kicked on from their Europa dominance to challenge in La Liga?

Pep and Jose may have technically won the league cup before they got the title but both were running away with the league at that point anyway and it was highly unlikely either were blowing that.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

If that's true then why haven't Arsenal used their FA Cup wins of late to start challenging for titles again?

Why didn't Liverpool kick on from their "Mickey mouse treble" under Houllier?

Why haven't Sevilla kicked on from their Europa dominance to challenge in La Liga?

Pep and Jose may have technically won the league cup before they got the title but both were running away with the league at that point anyway and it was highly unlikely either were blowing that.

Chelsea won there first ever title since 1955, I don’t even know what points difference was at that point but of course a league cup win makes a difference to a bunch of players who have never won a league title before. I’m not going to check the points at those exact times City won the league cup and league, it’s not always a guarantee either but it’s been pretty much talked about in football how an early cup win gives the players the appetite to win more. 

The other competitions are all at the end of season and I’m not even talking about them. I’m talking about what the effect of a Carling cup win can have on a group of players over a season.

20 minutes ago, Argo said:

We also take the piss out of Arsenal when they lord over their recent FA cup wins like they're back in the early Wenger days!

There's a big difference between us and Arsenal and that's what people seem to forget when making this inaccurate comparisons.

Arsenal actually did see finishing top 4 as akin to a trophy hence the Wenger comments and celebrations at Newcastle in 2013, we view it as a stepping stone to trying to win the competition (no matter how likely or unlikely it is, that's our aim as a club). For Arsenal getting top four is the holy grail, for us getting it is akin to a national team winning their world cup qualification group, couldn't make a more apples and oranges comparison if you tried.

I never took the piss out of Arsenal as I enjoy winning trophies. 

3 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Chelsea won there first ever title since 1955, I don’t even know what points difference was at that point but of course a league cup win makes a difference to a bunch of players who have never won a league title before. I’m not going to check the points at those exact times City won the league cup and league, it’s not always a guarantee either but it’s been pretty much talked about in football how an early cup win gives the players the appetite to win more. 

The other competitions are all at the end of season and I’m not even talking about them. I’m talking about what the effect of a Carling cup win can have on a group of players over a season.

We were about 12 points ahead I think, City even more.

The chances of either blowing the league at that point were next to nil.

That's all the Legue Cup does. Gives you a taste of success, unless you manage to win the community shield.

It's not really what it's made out to be. It's just a good story to tell when discussing Jose's dominance. It was the first trophy available for him to win and he won. When you win the league at a canter like we did, you don't look back and say "that league cup win 3 months ago against a side in 5th place was the catalyst for our title win". 

Mind you Liverpool got their revenge a couple months later in a more important tie which was a semi final.

And we all agree that a Champions League semi final is waaaay bigger and emotional than a League Cup final right?

The FA Cup is so special. I joined this forum ahead of the FA Cup final, that day the Wembley stadium had a tribute for Ray Wilkins and it was the final day of Conte as our manager. It was a great day, sunny and Hazard won a penalty, took it and won us the game, narrow gentleman win 1:0 for full respect.

With that all said and done, I voted for top 4. We simply must show that we belong in the Champions League.

1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

Winning a trophy early in the season like the league cup gives the players and the club a taste for success and they want more. It worked for Mourinho and Pep in the past and will probably be the same for Pep this year. That’s what I take from winning a competition and kicking on. 

I expect Pep tobl beat Spurs as City are just better than Spurs, it's as simple as that.

If Jose wins, great Spurs have a league cup and the 10 year drought for their next resumes. I mean what good did winning the Europa and League cup do for him at Utd? Absolutely nothing, got the sack and the fans didn't really like him.

Whether Pep wins or not, you expect City to win this title. Only Liverpool are good enough to compete with them (if they find form).

10 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I expect Pep tobl beat Spurs as City are just better than Spurs, it's as simple as that.

If Jose wins, great Spurs have a league cup and the 10 year drought for their next resumes. I mean what good did winning the Europa and League cup do for him at Utd? Absolutely nothing, got the sack and the fans didn't really like him.

Whether Pep wins or not, you expect City to win this title. Only Liverpool are good enough to compete with them (if they find form).

Like I said in an earlier post I was talking over the same season that I believe an carling cup win can kick a team on. From season to season I just think there are too many variables involved to say whether a cup win can kick a team on directly.

If Spurs do win a cup and Chelsea don’t then I defiantly know I’ll be getting it in the ear for a good while and I’m pretty sure Mourinho will be reminding everyone.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

I've never really brought the "win any trophy gives you the feel to win and kick on" either.

Arsenal since they've started winning FA Cups again have got worse overall, Liverpool never kicked on from trophy wins under Houllier/Rafa, Sevilla haven't exactly translated Europa dominance into sustained challenges in La Liga/CL amoungst other examples.

I`m not sure why you dont buy it when pretty much every player from the first Mourinho era say its the exact moment they knew they could win the league, Jose used it as that kick to win the league. 

10 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The whole point of Chelsea is to win the biggest trophies.

And that has been true since the club was founded in 2003.

4 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And that has been true since the club was founded in 2003.

founded in 2003? bloody hell Yorkley, I  didn't realise they existed then, i only started supporting in 2005 when they lifted the  title and I liked blue football kits. I have thought though of swiitching to Manchester City in the last few years!

18 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And that has been true since the club was founded in 2003.

Indeed and we have never looked back since. We took a huge gamble supporting this new club, I mean the owner was forecasted to get bored and sell up after only a few years. But at the end of the day none of us complained about all the shiny new players, flashy managers and countless big trophies he bought us. You love to see it.

I think the money is more important.  If you want to compete for those major trophies than your club needs the money that the Champion's league brings in.

To me this question is kind of like college basketball. . . Would you rather get invited to the NCAA tournament and lose or win the NIT tournament.   Everyone wants to be in the NCAA tournament more than they want to win the NIT tournament.  And that isn't because of money because NCAA players don't get paid.  But it's always better to be invited to the big dance than to win the "Not Invited Tournament" 

FA cup is nice but it's a relatively minor trophy.  

On 06/02/2021 at 12:23, charierre said:

I always find it amusing why we as fans have been coerced into believing that finishing fourth is success. Yes we gain qualification into a tournament that pays a vast amount of money into the corporate side of the club in order to buy more expensive flops to run a campaign again aimed at finishing at least fourth. Yes the club gets richer but unless we win the league or the holy grail of the Champions League really it’s all meaningless other than the status of being a top six club. The FA Cup is a piece of silverware with a long tradition, it may not carry the money unfortunately of a place with the elite but us as fans should crave winning trophies above how many millions the club has banked. 

I think it is more when everything else fails getting top four is the only thing left to save a season and stay at the top table for decent player acquisitions. 

Normally it is a relief to obtain it as the opposition is much closer than we would like,

20 hours ago, dkw said:

I`m not sure why you dont buy it when pretty much every player from the first Mourinho era say its the exact moment they knew they could win the league, Jose used it as that kick to win the league. 

Maybe it was a nice little kicker but we were what 12 points clear at the time? I know we as fans were nervous as it was so long without a title so we were naturally cautious about it but in reality the chances of prime Mourinho blowing such a huge lead was next to nil, infact had we lost that final he'd have probably equally used it as a motivational tool along the lines of "let's make sure we don't get this horrible feeling again", after all his initial tool of motivation was using the fact the majority of the squad had won f**k all.

Furthermore, even if it was the case and that cup truly was the difference between truly kicking on and not it would have been the exception rather than the rule. Many teams have won domestic cups/Europa League's and not properly kicked on, including us ourselves of the last few years and Mourinho himself at Man.United.