17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You literally said that Jorginho playing has no meaning at all to our results. You literally said that Jorginho playing for us on the pitch is equal to you putting pants on before putting your shirt on - that it makes no difference for our results. If you truly belive that you're just stupid, it has nothing to do with me.

He either said it or he didn't why do young people say or type literally all the time.

1 hour ago, bluehaze said:

He either said it or he didn't why do young people say or type literally all the time.

Because he denied it after 5 minutes, typical.

20 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

You keep on saying that as if it had any meaning whatsoever,  The only matches we have lost in the last year were the ones where I didn't put my trousers on before I put my t-shirt on.  Has exactly the same bearing on the results.

 

 

2 hours ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

 

That's neither here or there though is it, it doesn't mean that he's been performing well does it, I personally feel he was dog sh*t under Lampard, has played well first two games for TT and was poor again against Sheff Utd.

Like it or not, certain players downed tools for Lampard

I guess that's just your opinion but I find it very hard to believe that somehow he backstabbed Lampard. You're free to believe in that if it helps you for whatever thing you're trying to figure out but make no mistake, the games that cost Lampard's job - Jorginho wasn't even involved in them.

That 'haven't lost in 17 games with Jorginho in the side' stat is pretty disingenuous considering he came on at half-time during the Arsenal game...

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Nobody could possibly be as stupid as to not understand what I said, so therefore yiu are just being a typically argumentative troll.  You apepar to get into arguments quite a lot with lots of different people in here, and I susoect that is because schools are not open and you are a twat.  I've done with this, so off on ignore you go.

I think Yorkers is having a stroke (not that kind you sick f**ks)!

8 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

That 'haven't lost in 17 games with Jorginho in the side' stat is pretty disingenuous considering he came on at half-time during the Arsenal game...

You need a whole lot of mental gymnastics in order to convince yourself that he backstabbed Lampard when we were 2:0 down at half time, he came on Arsenal scored a goal and we scored a goal as well so while he was on the pitch during that second half it finished 1:1.

9 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You need a whole lot of mental gymnastics in order to convince yourself that he backstabbed Lampard when we were 2:0 down at half time, he came on Arsenal scored a goal and we scored a goal as well so while he was on the pitch during that second half it finished 1:1.

Not sure who is talking about backstabbing (I genuinely don't - I only skimmed the thread). I kept seeing this stat pop up and thought 'that doesn't sound right', and as it turns out it's not. 

Although if we're talking about mental gymnastics, trying to argue that we haven't lost a game with Jorginho on the pitch when he played half of a recent game we lost horribly probably counts. 

46 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

That 'haven't lost in 17 games with Jorginho in the side' stat is pretty disingenuous considering he came on at half-time during the Arsenal game...

It's a bs stat, you can find any stat to make a player look good or bad. I did it the other day. I could also say when Jorginho has been involved in league games this season we have only won 54% of them. Also 6 of 17 games was champions league and only 1 of them was a real competitive game in Sevilla at home, group games are always sh*t.

Edited February 11, 20215 yr by Ernie_blue

5 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Not sure who is talking about backstabbing (I genuinely don't - I only skimmed the thread). I kept seeing this stat pop up and thought 'that doesn't sound right', and as it turns out it's not. 

Although if we're talking about mental gymnastics, trying to argue that we haven't lost a game with Jorginho on the pitch when he played half of a recent game we lost horribly probably counts. 

Conveniently it seems that everyone that are annoyed at one simple stat missed that it was only used to argue against the notion that Jorginho backstabbed Lampard. 

17 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Conveniently it seems that everyone that are annoyed at one simple stat missed that it was only used to argue against the notion that Jorginho backstabbed Lampard. 

I don't think Jorginho backstabbed Lampard. To be honest I always find that sort of discussion tedious, and it always comes up whenever a manager who is popular with the fans is sacked (see the famous 'Three Rats' banner). 

I imagine there are/were two camps in the squad. One is the "youngster camp", Mount, Reece, CHO, Abraham, Billy etc. who have only just witnessed 1-2 season at top flight football with Lampard being there only reference and person to look up to. On the other side is the "experienced camp" with Jorghino, Kovacic, Rüdiger, Giroud, Alonso etc. who worked under very experienced Managers.

So what i try to say is maybe the the older players didn´t believe in Lampard because after while they saw the lack of knowledge (just speculating/no attack on Frank) while the younger players were more on board for obvious reasons.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

You need a whole lot of mental gymnastics in order to convince yourself that he backstabbed Lampard when we were 2:0 down at half time, he came on Arsenal scored a goal and we scored a goal as well so while he was on the pitch during that second half it finished 1:1.

You've obviously got some Fixation with Jorginho, as you seem to want to defend him to the Hilt. He's shocking

13 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

You've obviously got some Fixation with Jorginho, as you seem to want to defend him to the Hilt. He's shocking

He might be shocking as you say, but I just don't see where or how did he perform badly on purpose just to cause Lampard trouble, I don't see how did he backstab his manager. You by thinking this might also have some kind of fixation with him.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

He might be shocking as you say, but I just don't see where or how did he perform badly on purpose just to cause Lampard trouble, I don't see how did he backstab his manager. You by thinking this might also have some kind of fixation with him.

He was one of a few players that just simply didn't put it in for Lampard. Sulking because he wasn't picked, then when he was picked he was awful on a consistent basis. Its funny how all of a sudden he rediscovers his form for TT, nothing to do with formations, its application.

2 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

He was one of a few players that just simply didn't put it in for Lampard. Sulking because he wasn't picked, then when he was picked he was awful on a consistent basis. Its funny how all of a sudden he rediscovers his form for TT, nothing to do with formations, its application.

So there are other players, who else did this part from Jorginho according to you?

3 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

That 'haven't lost in 17 games with Jorginho in the side' stat is pretty disingenuous considering he came on at half-time during the Arsenal game...

Wouldn't bother Plookers. It is a waste of time with Gol. Present him with any source of independent contrary facts or statistics and he just refuses to accept them as credible. 

You could state that Messi, Pele and Maradona would probably all make Chelsea a better team than Jorginho and Gol would rustle up some stats and graphics that "PROVE" otherwise.

Unfortunately the one random statistic he continually ignores is 99.87% of other members on here think he is a complete knob jockey.

7 minutes ago, just said:

Unfortunately the one random statistic he continually ignores is 99.87% of other members on here think he is a complete knob jockey.

Okay I f**king pissed myself there 

2 minutes ago, just said:

Wouldn't bother Plookers. It is a waste of time with Gol. Present him with any source of independent contrary facts or statistics and he just refuses to accept them as credible. 

You could state that Messi, Pele and Maradona would probably all make Chelsea a better team than Jorginho and Gol would rustle up some stats and graphics that "PROVE" otherwise.

Unfortunately the one random statistic he continually ignores is 99.87% of other members on here think he is a complete knob jockey.

Show me one instance where I have said that Messi,Pele,Maradona are worse than Jorginho? You're just inventing stuff. All I said was that with Jorginho as a starter we haven't lost in 17 games in a row - this is 100% true.

The reason why I said it is because I replayed to someone that believes that Jorginho played deliberately worse under Lampard, backstabbing him - So if with him in the startling lineup Lampard lost only 1 game, how is he backstabbing Lampard? That was my argument.

Now you go ahead and keep inventing stuff about me, that's your problem not mine.

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Now you go ahead and keep inventing stuff about me, that's your problem not mine

You won pipe smoker of the year in 1989 and you were one half of the pantomime horse in Rentaghost.

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Now you go ahead and keep inventing stuff about me, that's your problem not mine.

You escaped from Colditz during the second world war and once dated Vanessa Feltz.

I think rather then dismiss the theory of Jorginho making us better as a team when he starts does have some merit based upon the 17 game unbeaten stat which @Gol15 is stating. I think it's more of a case of round pegs in round holes where having Jorgingo in the CDM role offers you the possibility of playing Kovacic & Kante as the Number 8's where they tend to utilize more of their strengths in a more dynamic role. 

How much impact Jorginho himself is having can be debated but having Jorginho in the line up allows us to deploy the other midfielders in their more natural positions. We only have 2 players who have the positional discipline to play that CDM role and they are Jorginho & Billy which obviously points to the importance of bringing in a more defensively oriented CDM.  

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

So there are other players, who else did this part from Jorginho according to you?

Kovacic, Azpi, CHO, Rudiger

Although I will say in Callum's defence that I thought on more than one occasion he was harshly left out by Lampard after what I perceived as good performances

Player power has always been greater at Chelsea than other clubs. Since 2004 we’ve had a dressing room full of leaders and strong personalities from JT, Cech, Drogba and Frank himself to Azpilicueta, Hazard, Ivanovic and JT (again). 

It doesn’t surprise me that we have an issue with player power, when the players that inherited the dressing room succeeded some of the most powerful players in the club’s history. 

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Show me one instance where I have said that Messi,Pele,Maradona are worse than Jorginho? You're just inventing stuff. All I said was that with Jorginho as a starter we haven't lost in 17 games in a row - this is 100% true.

The reason why I said it is because I replayed to someone that believes that Jorginho played deliberately worse under Lampard, backstabbing him - So if with him in the startling lineup Lampard lost only 1 game, how is he backstabbing Lampard? That was my argument.

Now you go ahead and keep inventing stuff about me, that's your problem not mine.

Isnt this just proof that Jorginho is rarely trusted in the harder games? He's seen as a bit of a liability defensively and therefore doesnt get started against the likes of Liverpool and Man City. he starts games where we are expected to have most of the ball, and therefore are less likely to lose anyway. It says less about Jorginho than it does about the quality of opposition.

39 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Player power has always been greater at Chelsea than other clubs. Since 2004 we’ve had a dressing room full of leaders and strong personalities from JT, Cech, Drogba and Frank himself to Azpilicueta, Hazard, Ivanovic and JT (again). 

It doesn’t surprise me that we have an issue with player power, when the players that inherited the dressing room succeeded some of the most powerful players in the club’s history. 

The board has to be able to make a distinction though, surely. Lampard, JT et al had won everything for the club and could be trusted to know whether the team was in shape to win again or not. Players like Rudiger, Jorginho etc. (not accusing them of anything, just using the names in the media as examples) havent won much, so would the board really listen to them in the same way?
Especially with a strong board, I wouldnt think Player Power was such a big factor these days