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Euro 2020 (played in 2021)


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10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Nope, talent wise you can have a debate which one is better but this England team is better team than the golden generation one. 

This England team is much more solid defensively which is what international tournament all about. 

 

Defensively this one is better because we play with a back 5 and 2 cdms. Man for man this team cannot touch the golden era.

Also put some of the great sides Germany and Spain from 10 years ago up against our young squad and they will still get opened up.

Similar to Chelsea 2021 CL winners who would get trampled by the 2011 team that lost to imo.

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5 hours ago, coco said:

Their has been a massive reaction in this country to the few racists who abused our players on social media. I doubt you would see such a reaction in many other countries. We're not a racist nation, people are largely free to live their lives without discrimination. 

This nation is so institutionally racist and very much overt. You wont see aggressive and physical racism but its definitely there.

Edited by KonaKai Blue
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1 hour ago, dkw said:

That clueless coach has taken us from being beaten by Iceland to 4th place, 3rd place then losing a final. Thats progression. He ballsed up the final but he has done very well with a national team that has been failing for nigh on 50 years now. Some of the stick he is getting is ridiculous. I suppose he only did well because we played rubbish teams, got lucky etc....

Your sarcasm is actually true with regards to doing well. Dont forget we also played at Wembley almost every game. The guy messed up Englands biggest and Easiest opportunity that ive seen since watching internationals from 1996.

Average manager with crap tactics and crap subs. Dont buy into all this progress bs. You make the final, you win it or at least lose with no regrets.

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I'm sure I heard Southgate say yesterday on the BBC that the FA had spoken to the police about the social media abuse and the police advised a fair chunk of it is from overseas and they can not do anything about that part.

 

Re our progression I've seen Germany in previous tournaments look poor in the group stage and then get to the final forget now if they won it.

So for me Southgate deserves recognition even if we only met one of the big boys on our route to the final and lets face it we lost to the winners on penalties, you can't get much closer than that. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Nah, to have a great national team you need a complete team. You can produce 20 wc attacker but produce 0 cb and you will never win anything. 

Belgium team is never complete whereas this France is super complete. You simply don't see any weaknesses in their squad. This is the key in all international team do you see any glaring weakness. 

 

 

 

 

 

Has nothing to do with what the conversation was about though...

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1 hour ago, KonaKai Blue said:

This nation is so institutionally racist and very much overt. You wont see aggressive and physical racism but its definitely there.

Absolute garbage, as a nation the massive majority are incredibly accepting and inclusive, our nation is one of the most diverse in the world. We have problems, we have morons, we have disgusting vermin living here with opinions and ideas that just aren't acceptable. But that is no different to pretty much any other major country unfortunately, and social media just magnifies it as it gives the minority a loud, anonymous voice.  It is not to be used as an indicator on how the normal majority act in this country.

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46 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I'm sure I heard Southgate say yesterday on the BBC that the FA had spoken to the police about the social media abuse and the police advised a fair chunk of it is from overseas and they can not do anything about that part.

 

Re our progression I've seen Germany in previous tournaments look poor in the group stage and then get to the final forget now if they won it.

So for me Southgate deserves recognition even if we only met one of the big boys on our route to the final and lets face it we lost to the winners on penalties, you can't get much closer than that. 

 

 

We lost on penalties to a team that is unbeaten in 33 games, winning 29 of them. Its amazing how little 8s being made of that, Italy were comfortably the best team in the comp.

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57 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I'm sure I heard Southgate say yesterday on the BBC that the FA had spoken to the police about the social media abuse and the police advised a fair chunk of it is from overseas and they can not do anything about that part.

 

 

Fifa and Uefa can reach those countries and punish them for not making efforts to stop it happening, they really could do more to stop it if they really wanted to, but all they are doing is awareness campaigns and making money from fines.

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3 hours ago, dkw said:

We lost on penalties to a team that is unbeaten in 33 games, winning 29 of them. Its amazing how little 8s being made of that, Italy were comfortably the best team in the comp.

Totally agree dkw.

Though having watched the 90 minutes again I do feel Southgate surrendered the initiative we had in the first half. I suspect at half-time he might have told them to stay tight and compact and not give anything up straight after the break. Because they definitely sat 10 yards deeper, stopped pressing high and basically dropped their tempo. Italy took over from there and never let go.

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36 minutes ago, just said:

Totally agree dkw.

Though having watched the 90 minutes again I do feel Southgate surrendered the initiative we had in the first half. I suspect at half-time he might have told them to stay tight and compact and not give anything up straight after the break. Because they definitely sat 10 yards deeper, stopped pressing high and basically dropped their tempo. Italy took over from there and never let go.

Once the Jorginho effect takes place there's nothing you can do, unbreakable backbone crazy life.

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7 hours ago, dkw said:

That clueless coach has taken us from being beaten by Iceland to 4th place, 3rd place then losing a final. Thats progression. He ballsed up the final but he has done very well with a national team that has been failing for nigh on 50 years now. Some of the stick he is getting is ridiculous. I suppose he only did well because we played rubbish teams, got lucky etc....

He's a clueless 'coach', but certainly a good manager of players and a good motivator.

You act like a manager has never been carried by a set of players. This would make Roberto Martinez world class because he led Belgium to the top of the World rankings. And probably would have won the previous World Cup if not for France. So much progression, best manager right?

And how about Avram Grant and Di Matteo? So much progression. Best Coaches.

What a bizarre argument. England have their best team in 50 years with skilled footballers in practically every position. Progression is inevitable, but it will take a good coach to have them play to their potential.

Some of the decisions Southgate made were inexplicable. And to have such a huge squad and use so few substitutes (throughout the tournament) also suggests severe limitations.

And despite your outrage, England did have an easy draw 😂 can't be so hard to see that.

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53 minutes ago, ashwin said:

 

And despite your outrage, England did have an easy draw 😂 can't be so hard to see that.

This 'easy draw' nonsense is very disrespectful towards the other teams, and it usually comes from non England fans saying England had an easy draw. It's a crazy argument, they are literally saying England are pretty good when they say the draw was easy. :laugh2:

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11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Has nothing to do with what the conversation was about though...

I understand what he said. Basically this England team is more Belgium than France because Belgium fail to deliver and France successfully deliver trophy.

But this Belgium team is not a complete team the so called golden generation is purely hoopla. If you understand how football work, you will consider Belgium as one of the very good team but unless they get very lucky they won't win the big prize. England on the other hand is a complete team and will be contender in the next wc. 

Edited by Bob stark
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11 hours ago, dkw said:

We lost on penalties to a team that is unbeaten in 33 games, winning 29 of them. Its amazing how little 8s being made of that, Italy were comfortably the best team in the comp.

Nah France by far. France has the best team and THE best player in the tournament. 

I agree that losing on Penalties is more about luck and I absolutely hate when people suddenly heavily criticize Southgate. Imo he did a good job not masterful but good job on this tournament. 

But I agree with most people who said in the final Southgate could do more. You got early goal and you are 1-0 by half time now you have a gazillion option of what to do. If you want to sit bring Rashford or Sancho and say good luck to italy defense containing those two player on the break. If you want to keep the ball bring grealish, maybe Sancho, and ask them to keep the ball all the time, pick up the ball high and play tippy tappy football. 

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13 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Defensively this one is better because we play with a back 5 and 2 cdms. Man for man this team cannot touch the golden era.

Also put some of the great sides Germany and Spain from 10 years ago up against our young squad and they will still get opened up.

Similar to Chelsea 2021 CL winners who would get trampled by the 2011 team that lost to imo.

Of course you play 5 at the back with 2 cdm. That is how you win in international tournament. Not conceding is priority no 1,2,3 in international tournament.

That golden generation was maybe better man to man but maybe instead of spending too much time every tournament thinking of whether Gerard and Lampard can work together or how we could cram as many star player in the team or will rooney be fit or beckham be fit, they tried to build a balance team they would have something with that team. 

Edited by Bob stark
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7 hours ago, coco said:

This 'easy draw' nonsense is very disrespectful towards the other teams, and it usually comes from non England fans saying England had an easy draw. It's a crazy argument, they are literally saying England are pretty good when they say the draw was easy. :laugh2:

But of course, this England squad is extremely good! There's no disrespect towards other teams there, just an acknowledgement of how good the squad really is. Before Italy, England managed to evade all the powerhouses except a transitioning Germany - all of France, Portugal, Belgium, Spain would have provided sterner tests. It's easy to overestimate the competence of a manager when so many things go your way.

I strongly believe that with a better manager, this team is capable of playing like one of the best in the world, not just stumbling through to an advanced stage.

Despite the run to the World Cup semis, these are the teams that England beat over 90 mins + extra time

1) Tunisia 2) Panama 3) Sweden

Teams that they failed to beat without penalties

1) Columbia

Teams that they lost to

1) Belgium 2) Croatia (a prime Croatia)

There's a pretty clear pattern here - England are happily beating low to mid rung teams but failing whenever they come up against a powerhouse. And that is because the manager is severely limited.

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3 hours ago, dkw said:

France won it in 2016, their route was:-

 

Iceland
Austria
Hungary
Croatia
Poland
Wales
Portugal

Were people complaining it was too easy for them then also?

 

 

Ok 🙂 Southgate is the best manager ever, England had the most difficult draw ever, England have the best fans ever and everyone has an agenda against England. You've convinced me.

Absolutely no substance to the criticism that either the fans or the manager are getting. And certainly not worth a nuanced discussion.

France didn't even win anything in 2016. And I have no idea where you got this set of match ups. France had a tough route to the 2018 World Cup that included Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and a prime Croatia. But of course, not even close to as difficult as England's matches during 2018 and 2021.

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9 minutes ago, ashwin said:

Ok 🙂 Southgate is the best manager ever, England had the most difficult draw ever, England have the best fans ever and everyone has an agenda against England. You've convinced me.

 

Arguing like a 5 year old now then, tara.

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35 minutes ago, dkw said:

Arguing like a 5 year old now then, tara.

Well, I did try to argue like an 'adult' 🙂 Made a number of points which you do not seem to want to address/discuss. Including in the previous post.

Anyway, I'll stop here.

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5 hours ago, ashwin said:

But of course, this England squad is extremely good! There's no disrespect towards other teams there, just an acknowledgement of how good the squad really is. Before Italy, England managed to evade all the powerhouses except a transitioning Germany - all of France, Portugal, Belgium, Spain would have provided sterner tests. It's easy to overestimate the competence of a manager when so many things go your way.

I strongly believe that with a better manager, this team is capable of playing like one of the best in the world, not just stumbling through to an advanced stage.

Despite the run to the World Cup semis, these are the teams that England beat over 90 mins + extra time

1) Tunisia 2) Panama 3) Sweden

Teams that they failed to beat without penalties

1) Columbia

Teams that they lost to

1) Belgium 2) Croatia (a prime Croatia)

There's a pretty clear pattern here - England are happily beating low to mid rung teams but failing whenever they come up against a powerhouse. And that is because the manager is severely limited.

For me Southgate is a limited manager that has won nothing in club football, strange then he has the top job.

He is a political appointment and will always say the things the English FA approve of and not rock the boat.

However to be fair, he seems to have brought squad unity and put out decent sides that can at least compete and not get steam rollered though for sure there are areas that could be improved.

 

 

 

 

 

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Admittedly I have only read the last couple of pages but can anyone help me understand how there is room for argument. England had a great tournament and I don't see this nonsense about gettin easy draws.

1)you can only beat who is infront of you

2)no team in the latter stages is an easy game even if they are not ranked particularly high. They could be riding on momentum...look at Denmark.

3) England had Croatia in their group and they are anything but a pushover.

4) England vs Scotland is a local Derby on the international stage so anything could of happened in that match

England got to the final, had a bit of luck on the way but who has ever won a tournament without it. We're they good enough at the final hurdle? No but did they deserve to get there? definitely.

As for the argument about instertunail racism that I saw someone comment on. Give over in no way is the English people racist apart from maybe 1% of the population who are just nutcases you would see anywhere in the world. If whoever the poster is who claimed there is institutional racism clearly isn't in full knowledge of the facts of the abuse saka and Rashford got on SM, most of the comments came from abroad and about half of them was from so called minorities.

IMO a lot of these were put there to hurt the English reputation not that it needs help with our own media jumping on any chance to have a pop.

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1 hour ago, bluedave said:

'Instertunail' racism does not mean that everybody in the country is an out-and-out racist. But most of the people I've seen denying its existing have been.

You talking about me? I might of got the wrong end of the stick here so correct me if I am wrong but it does seem as if you are implying i am racsit?

Sorry about my poor spelling when I joined up I didn't realise spelling was a priority but I am borderline dyslexic I rely heavily on auto correct and sometimes I don't get words correct enough for it to be able to figure out what I am trying to type.

I can take banter and jokes about it but please don't think it's OK just to point out spelling mistakes to try to make a stupid point to try to win an argument you don't know why people maybe making those mistakes. I won't be bullied about it.

If this is the sort of people I can expect on this site then maybe it isn't the site for me. Sorry again if I've got the wrong end of the stick I would like a bit of clairty.

I am not denying racism exists but I am strongly and categorically denying england is Institutionally racist. After growing up in England and moving to a country that does suffer woth institutional racism I can tell you there is a huge difference between the minority of the UK and the fascism proudly displayed in other countries

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