On 29/06/2021 at 14:53, The Brit said:

I’ve been really disappointed by England so far so not feeling much excitement about tonight. We’ve been one of the dullest teams at the tournament as Southgate tells a squad full of talent to play with the handbrake on. 
I just hope we are saving the best for the knockout stages.

Well we reaped what we sowed in the end. We had a golden opportunity to win a tournament and unfortunately seemed more worried about losing the final than going out and grabbing it.

what did we do after going 1-0 up? Very little - we had one more effort on target in 118 minutes.

I would have preferred us missing out on the trophy after having a go than doing what we’ve done in so many big games over the years…men behind the ball, letting a team boss possession, go out on pens.

it’s hard to knock Southgate. He has taken us to a semi and a final, a better record than any England coach I’ve seen. but he has also had the benefit of kind draws, playing so-so teams and then losing to the first good, experienced side we came up against (Croatia, Germany and Denmark don’t fit into that category this year).

I expected us to play really entertaining football at the Euros with the attacking talent in the squad but we’ve been a bit meh to watch, Ukraine aside. That’s fine when results go your way, but can’t help but feel disappointed. It’s great I’ve seen us in a final yet I feel we didn’t really see England at their best throughout.

thought the mindset of Southgate was telling when asked about his subs after the game and why he didn’t bring sancho and rashford on earlier…and he replied he was worried about keeping the (defensive) shape of the team. 
rather than trying to win it in extra time and avoiding pens, seemed to me he preferred to take chance of winning it on pens over losing it in extra time.

Edited July 12, 20215 yr by The Brit

3 hours ago, just said:

I think Italy probably deserved it overall. England dominated the first half. Italy dominated the second. Extra-time England had a spell of pressure but Italy looked stronger overall I feel.

Southgate huge mistakes with the subs, particularly Henderson for Rice IMO.

Have enjoyed watching Itay in every game they've played in the tournament. Fair play to them and totally deserved. Nice to Spinazzola going up to get his medal.

 

 

Italians were rattled in the 1st half. Manchini did changes and they started dominating and exactly when Southgate supposed react and do subs at hour mark or so. And yes not Rice but should have sent Sancho/Foden/ Grealish/Rashford whoever. Italians were there for taking and they were scared of the speed.. Very inept and noob tactics from Southgate, that gave Italians confidence growing over the period and that exactly made them come back in the game. Another biggest mistake was England played for penalties in extra times instead of trying to win it.  England has such a string bench they are supposed to be used on the field to win the game and not subbed for penalties.  Stupid tactics is a exact term. 

4 hours ago, charierre said:

Southgate made all the wrong changes at the wrong times. No game plan after 45 mins. Why he took Rice off god only knows. Henderson was awful.

That was the stupidest decision of the game. 

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

So who does Cheisa play for and how much will he cost Roman?

On loan at Juventus with an obligation to buy from Fiorentina. Not a chance, but then they have Ronaldo’s wages to fund. 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Jurgen Klopp?

 

Media blame game is on. Mase a 4 out of 10 on skysports and being blasted.

 

Agree with Roy Keane on one thing though, how do the likes of Sterling, Grealish and Shaw let Saka take that last pen?

In normal time the players who did a 4/10 were the fullbacks who apart from the goal couldnt play a single ball on ground into the feet of the forwards or did so when they were under immense pressure. Apart from the the leeds lad had a poor game too along with awful distribution from the keeper. The 3 italian midfielders crowed out Rice and philips.. 

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

In normal time the players who did a 4/10 were the fullbacks who apart from the goal couldnt play a single ball on ground into the feet of the forwards or did so when they were under immense pressure. Apart from the the leeds lad had a poor game too along with awful distribution from the keeper. The 3 italian midfielders crowed out Rice and philips.. 

Good thing he never gave Reece or Chilwell a chance eh?

Trippier???? WTF. As soon as I saw his inclusion, I know we would be defensive. Instead of  going and grabbing the game by the nuts, we got the lead and sat back from then on. Inviting Italy to take control and have sustained pressure. The worst thing that happened ironically, was the early goal. We seemed to adopt a " protect that at all costs" mentality and you cannot do that against a team with Italy's quality. I had been impressed with Southgate, although stating a couple of years ago that he would never make a winning England Manager, I was prepared to eat humble pie, but last night his starting line up, his substitutes and his shocking list of penalty takers, proved I was right all along.

England undoubtedly have the players. The squad was excellent and most given time on the pitch, did themselves justice. BUT do we have the management and coaching ability to make the best of the players? I think probably not !!

Southgate is a likeable person and deserves some credit for taking England to heights they haven't reached for a long time with a very young team.

But while he is a decent 'manager', he is not a good coach, and does not know how to get a team to play offensively as a complex force. And that is where proven world class offensive managers like Mancini make a difference. Guardiola, Klopp, Tuchel all have teams playing complex attacking football.

And I haven't seen a manager use a squad more poorly than Southgate during this Euros (or ever). Only one plan from the start to the end of a match, no addition of complexity with players of different profiles like DCL, etc. Such limited use of substitutions which shows absolute tactical ineptness. Did any team make fewer substitutions?

Simply put, Southgate is too limited a coach and tactician. The only reason England got so far is that several favourable factors aligned through a combination of determination and luck rather than skillful football.

 

 

If Mancini was managing that group of England players we would have won. No doubt about it.

The truth is Southgate should go, he's one dimensional and will always hold back the players. The reality is they'll give him another four year contract.

5 hours ago, The Brit said:

 

thought the mindset of Southgate was telling when asked about his subs after the game and why he didn’t bring sancho and rashford on earlier…and he replied he was worried about keeping the (defensive) shape of the team. 
rather than trying to win it in extra time and avoiding pens, seemed to me he preferred to take chance of winning it on pens over losing it in extra time.

Is that why he subbed the right WB Trippier for Saka who is a winger? He changed there the defensive shape as it meant going effectively to a back 4 with Saka playing more advanced and Mount having to drop deeper into the midfield. There's how he lost the control of the game in the second half, he took his best high pressing and more creative player to a deeper position and Italy felt more comfortable playing from the back unlike in the first half. In addition, he took off Rice who was covering well the defensive line and driving well the ball from the back for that Henderson who is... I really don't know what he is other than a limited player. I feel that the game is definitely on Southgate, he made bad choices in his substitutions.

Oh, and don't get me started with Sterling! How on earth did he play that many amount of minutes is beyond me. Plus, he dives, complains and is then disrespectful of the opponent's players. He rejected Bonucci's hand after he fell in the penalty area, just as he did not accept another players' hand I think it was against Denmark, and he had already done that to Azpi in the CL league that we won fair and square. He is starting to behave a bit like a spoilt brat.

9 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Disappointed to see them yank their medals off like the United players did in the Europa League final. I'm sure the defeat hurts, but it's sign of a loser to me. 

Agreed, I can't stand it when players do that. The disappointment must be huge, but by taking off the medal they also take away the accomplishments and the hard work they can be proud of. I can understand it when the players who didn't get any minutes do it in these circumstances though. 

My commiserations to the England supporting forum members. I supported Italy (I can't possibly support a team that has Kane, Maguire, Grealish and Henderson in it), but during the first half I really thought England had Italy figured out and knew how to stifle them. In the second half however England were practically inviting Italy to score, and I was actually surprised that regular time ended at 1-1. England's play went back in time: just give the ball a mean kick and see what happens. 

The choice of penalty kickers was baffling. Why not pick players who had had more gametime. Rashford was terribly unlucky, it took a lot of balls to take the penalty like that. If he had scored he would have been hailed the ice cold hero Jorginho was for the Italy-Spain shoot-out. And Saka and Sancho... WTF! They were barely warmed up, hardly had a look at the ball and then have to take a penalty with the weight of the nation on them. I can only feel dreadfully sorry for them. Very odd too that Sterling didn't take a penalty, but if this was because he didn't feel confident, you can only respect that. 

Happy for Jorginho and Emerson, sad for Mount, James and Chilwell. 

10 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Disappointed to see them yank their medals off like the United players did in the Europa League final. I'm sure the defeat hurts, but it's sign of a loser to me. 

Yeah, sad to see Mount do it especially.

5 minutes ago, ashwin said:

Yeah, sad to see Mount do it especially.

I'm unhappy to say Mount was about the worst culprit, he actually yanked the medal off even before it reached his neck.

8 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I'm unhappy to say Mount was about the worst culprit, he actually yanked the medal off even before it reached his neck.

Nah. Sorry Val. I'm with Jose on this. No interest in second place medals. Chuck em into the crowd. Anyone happy with a second place medal has missed the point. May as well make a "We put the pressure on" DVD

Edited July 12, 20215 yr by Spiller86

It amazes me how fans are surprised when it always seems to always end in a penalty shoot out like its some kind of curse, its because we basically play for them every time.  Every big game is the same we end up watching the opposition play football knowing penalties are looming and do nothing about it.  I bet all the players feel like they should have gone for it, that they could have done more to win the game, to take more risks, just like every England player in the last 20 years has thought on the way out of a tournament.   At least in 96' and 98' we went out swinging.  Disappointed, but not surprised. 

 

Very disappointing yet on the day the right team won.

The England player that surprised me most was Pickford much better than in the semi-final.

Perhaps he should have taken a penalty 

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

I'm unhappy to say Mount was about the worst culprit, he actually yanked the medal off even before it reached his neck.

Why? Who gives a sh*t about a second place medal in football right after losing the final in a penalty shoot out. 

I'm not too bothered by England losing, for me international tournaments are just a means to fill the footballing void during the off-season, but I do feel very sorry for Baka today. No way should a 19-year-old kid be taking the decisive 5th penalty in a major final. The poor kid was distraught afterwards, and this will probably stick with him for his entire career. You'd think Southgate, of all people, would have known better. I suppose it's good that Southgate has assumed full responsibility, but it's still a bizarre decision, and not the only one he made last night.

Anyway, only another 33 days now until proper football starts up again.

 

Why are people bothered about booing an anthem, like its a new thing. Its been going on for decades, all round the world. So much weird hand wringing about it everywhere. Even saw some say we should be more like the Italian fans who are really respectful....I mean f**king hell, they cant have seen any football involving them before.

 

 

England and Southgate limited, look when your manager allows your world leading striker to play mostly in the midfield, along with two combative not creative midfielders (Philips and Rice), and said Striker never touched the ball in the Italians box, what the actual f**k does, southgate now bring to the table, give it to Frank ffs.....

37 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

Why? Who gives a sh*t about a second place medal in football right after losing the final in a penalty shoot out. 

I refer to my earlier post on the matter. 

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

Why are people bothered about booing an anthem, like its a new thing. Its been going on for decades, all round the world. So much weird hand wringing about it everywhere. Even saw some say we should be more like the Italian fans who are really respectful....I mean f**king hell, they cant have seen any football involving them before.

 

 

I get what mean, a lot of experts around today, my missus only watched from the second half of extra time last night (only football she has watched in about 5 years) all of a sudden she knows exactly where England went wrong and I haven't got a clue what I am talking about......

However booing an national anthem is not great is it really, it's a low and lazy form of disrespect. I have always hated it  

25 minutes ago, dkw said:

Why are people bothered about booing an anthem, like its a new thing. Its been going on for decades, all round the world. So much weird hand wringing about it everywhere. Even saw some say we should be more like the Italian fans who are really respectful....I mean f**king hell, they cant have seen any football involving them before.

 

 

Why do it though? Just lacks class. And why does something done in the past justify it being done today?

And that is not the only thing - just one classless action would be overlooked but there's been so much more.

12 minutes ago, andy said:

I get what mean, a lot of experts around today, my missus only watched from the second half of extra time last night (only football she has watched in about 5 years) all of a sudden she knows exactly where England went wrong and I haven't got a clue what I am talking about......

However booing an national anthem is not great is it really, it's a low and lazy form of disrespect. I have always hated it  

It just demonstrates a total lack of class, and I don't remember this booing of every national anthem as being normal in the past. I also didn't like it when they booed Chiesa when he limped off injured. The England fans were a massive embarrassment on the whole, but that's nothing new.