10 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

I think Jorginho has been incredibly underrated by a lot of fans over the past few years, but at this point in time Declan Rice would be a pretty big upgrade on him.

Rice never played in a possession-based team, ever. Bakayoko looked great in Monaco and Conte thought he would be amazing for us in our counter-attack system due to his high rate of tackles per match, it turned out he couldn't keep the possession going against lower teams and was soon out of the squad and that's Conte we're talking about he was most of the time happy with 35% possession. 

Look at the team that is built around him, I mean we're doing terrible right now but even we aren't as bad as West Ham that is even lower than Leicester right now and furthermore look at England being the worst team in their Nation's league group... Now consider the price of 100m that would be required to sign Rice, we can do much better than that.

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by Gol15

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Rice never played in a possession-based team, ever. Bakayoko looked great in Monaco and Conte thought he would be amazing for us in our counter-attack system due to his high rate of tackles per match, it turned out he couldn't keep the possession going against lower teams and was soon out of the squad and that's Conte we're talking about he was most of the time happy with 35% possession. 

Look at the team that is built around him, I mean we're doing terrible right now but even we aren't as bad as West Ham that is even lower than Leicester right now and furthermore look at England being the worst team in their Nation's league group... Now consider the price of 100m that would be required to sign Rice, we can do much better than that.

The ironic thing is people bang on about how some players are only favoured because they have a fancy name. Nothing will convince me that blowing over £100m on Rice would be considered a good idea if he wasn't a childhood fan and had a friendship with a fans favourite.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

look at England being the worst team in their Nation's league group... 

And look who was the first person to concuct a beyond bizarre excuse for it.

www.90min.com/posts/declan-rice-backs-england-come-good-score-goals-for-fun-training/amp

5 hours ago, Argo said:

The ironic thing is people bang on about how some players are only favoured because they have a fancy name. Nothing will convince me that blowing over £100m on Rice would be considered a good idea if he wasn't a childhood fan and had a friendship with a fans favourite.

And look who was the first person to concuct a beyond bizarre excuse for it.

www.90min.com/posts/declan-rice-backs-england-come-good-score-goals-for-fun-training/amp

and a fan's favorite who may even be off if we cannot agree a contract extension...

17 hours ago, Argo said:

The ironic thing is people bang on about how some players are only favoured because they have a fancy name. Nothing will convince me that blowing over £100m on Rice would be considered a good idea if he wasn't a childhood fan and had a friendship with a fans favourite.

And look who was the first person to concuct a beyond bizarre excuse for it.

www.90min.com/posts/declan-rice-backs-england-come-good-score-goals-for-fun-training/amp

If rice is available for 100m,united would have signed him instead of casemiro.

 

I don't understand why people are debating on how rice will adapt to "progressive" football.

Let's just say that rice is absolutely $@!t under pressure. It is easy

               Rice

       Kova -Mount

       cb - cb - james

Or if he is bang average under pressure

Kova -Mount

Cb - Rice - Cb

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I don't understand why people are debating on how rice will adapt to "progressive" football.

Let's just say that rice is absolutely $@!t under pressure. It is easy

               Rice

       Kova -Mount

       cb - cb - james

Or if he is bang average under pressure

Kova -Mount

Cb - Rice - Cb

 

 

 

You would put Rice in front of Mount and Kovacic or as a CB?

That's tough, judging from this alone he really doesn't fit for us even if we ignore every other red flag...

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

You would put Rice in front of Mount and Kovacic or as a CB?

That's tough, judging from this alone he really doesn't fit for us even if we ignore every other red flag...

If you think he is $h£t under pressurre (I don't) that is one solution.

 

 

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

If you think he is $h£t under pressurre (I don't) that is one solution.

 

 

He can't play in front of Mount and Kovacic. The solution is not to waste 100m on him.

17 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He can't play in front of Mount and Kovacic. The solution is not to waste 100m on him.

He can, and if you think he is playing as a 10 then you need to watch more football.

My point is very simple, you can move player around, even if you think that a dm is bad on the ball you can find a way to reduce his impact on your build up.

 

Edited November 18, 20223 yr by Bob stark

19 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

He can, and if you think he is playing as a 10 then you need to watch more football.

My point is very simple, you can move player around, even if you think that a dm is bad on the ball you can find a way to reduce his impact on your build up.

 

You'll need to show me when did he ever play in a more advanced midfield role and how did it work out for him then cause all I have seen was him playing deep in a midfield 2 in West Ham with Soucek and for England along side Phillips. Maybe there is a reason why they bought Paqueta to begin with. But the issue is even deeper than that, Mount hasn't been comfortable to play as a deep central midfield player for us anyway. You are the one putting him in to play somewhat as a "10" when you put that Mount and Kovacic would be in front of the backline while Rice would be in front of them...

I love Gallagher is in the squad but I also feel it was a surprise. What he has shown with us this season was enough to grant him a spot in the team is surprising.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

He can't play in front of Mount and Kovacic. The solution is not to waste 100m on him.

We won’t be buying him full stop.

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I don't understand why people are debating on how rice will adapt to "progressive" football.

Let's just say that rice is absolutely $@!t under pressure. It is easy

               Rice

       Kova -Mount

       cb - cb - james

Or if he is bang average under pressure

Kova -Mount

Cb - Rice - Cb

 

 

 

As a middle CB it would arguably be even worse.

Lets just say there's a reason our managers have picked players like Silva, Christensen and Luiz for that role and not Zouma, Chalobah or even Rudiger.

How about we spend that money on an actual DM, one that plays in a progressive set up and has all around qualities/metrics which makes him suitable and tailor made for how we want to play?

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You'll need to show me when did he ever play in a more advanced midfield role and how did it work out for him then cause all I have seen was him playing deep in a midfield 2 in West Ham with Soucek and for England along side Phillips. Maybe there is a reason why they bought Paqueta to begin with. But the issue is even deeper than that, Mount hasn't been comfortable to play as a deep central midfield player for us anyway. You are the one putting him in to play somewhat as a "10" when you put that Mount and Kovacic would be in front of the backline while Rice would be in front of them...

I have never said anything about playing rice advanced midfield or a 10. He is still playing as dm. 

Btw I won't do thia with rice because imo he is good on the ball. But since some people think that you need to be busquet to play in possesion based team i just gave you a few example that you can be average or evn bad on the ball under pressure and you can still do slow short build up.

 

 

14 hours ago, Argo said:

As a middle CB it would arguably be even worse.

Lets just say there's a reason our managers have picked players like Silva, Christensen and Luiz for that role and not Zouma, Chalobah or even Rudiger.

Nope

When you play dm most of the time you will receive the ball with back to goal whereas as ccb you are looking at the opp.

14 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

How about we spend that money on an actual DM, one that plays in a progressive set up and has all around qualities/metrics which makes him suitable and tailor made for how we want to play?

If you look at fbref, the 4 top possesion team in pl are us,city,pool n arse.

We all know that Partey, Rodri,Fabinho and jorgi are the starting dms for these team. Who is the odd man out ?

Maybe our starting dm is the one that does not have the all around qualities to play in progressive setup.

Edited November 19, 20223 yr by Bob stark

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I have never said anything about playing rice advanced midfield or a 10. He is still playing as dm. 

Btw I won't do thia with rice because imo he is good on the ball. But since some people think that you need to be busquet to play in possesion based team i just gave you a few example that you can be average or evn bad on the ball under pressure and you can still do slow short build up.

 

 

?

On 18/11/2022 at 07:28, Bob stark said:

I don't understand why people are debating on how rice will adapt to "progressive" football.

Let's just say that rice is absolutely $@!t under pressure. It is easy

               Rice

       Kova -Mount

       cb - cb - james

Or if he is bang average under pressure

Kova -Mount

Cb - Rice - Cb

 

 

 

?

You literally put a back 3, in front of which is Kovacic and Mount, in front of which is Rice. You seem confused.

On 16/11/2022 at 14:45, Sconnie Blue said:

Or we could actually buy a DM that passes both the eye test and has the metrics to play in a progressive set up. 

Watching England today? Progressive system and Rice intercepting absolutely everything this half and starting attacks. Giving England freedom, exactly what we need at chelsea. 

10 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Watching England today? Progressive system and Rice intercepting absolutely everything this half and starting attacks. Giving England freedom, exactly what we need at chelsea. 

Iran are hardly the Bayern, City, and Real of the worlds. This is the equivalent of Jorginho looking good against a 10 man Milan team. 

Rice, or England for that matter, play with such control against the better nations, you have a point. 

24 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Watching England today? Progressive system and Rice intercepting absolutely everything this half and starting attacks. Giving England freedom, exactly what we need at chelsea. 

I counted atleast 5 times he was hiding behind an Iran player when Stones or Maguire had the ball in the first phase build up.

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Iran are hardly the Bayern, City, and Real of the worlds. This is the equivalent of Jorginho looking good against a 10 man Milan team. 

Rice, or England for that matter, play with such control against the better nations, you have a point. 

Ahh so first it was he can’t play in an attacking system, but now the goal posts move to the top 20 in the world team isn’t good enough. Got it. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I counted atleast 5 times he was hiding behind an Iran player when Stones or Maguire had the ball in the first phase build up.

Must have seen the 20,000 times he offered them a pass then. Aways an outlet and always intercepting passes. 

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Ahh so first it was he can’t play in an attacking system, but now the goal posts move to the top 20 in the world team isn’t good enough. Got it. 

Go back to my original argument before you go on with your “gotcha” moment. 
 

My stance from day one was that Jorginho, although flawed, allows us to retain the ball and control the game against the best midfields in the world. Rice is not only not a natural DM/holding midfielder, he has never showed he is capable of replicating Jorginho’s influence against the best in the world. 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

I counted atleast 5 times he was hiding behind an Iran player when Stones or Maguire had the ball in the first phase build up.

I mean regardless, England winning against Iran you know it must be a sign to spend 100m on Rice, right? The whole Iranian squad is worth much less than that price tag but hey...