44 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Go back to my original argument before you go on with your “gotcha” moment. 
 

My stance from day one was that Jorginho, although flawed, allows us to retain the ball and control the game against the best midfields in the world. Rice is not only not a natural DM/holding midfielder, he has never showed he is capable of replicating Jorginho’s influence against the best in the world. 

We've had some poor transfers in our time but if Rice comes for more than Fabinho, Rodri and Casemiro combined (not to mention potentially in or around the same price one of our rivals get Bellingham and potentially approaching double what gets United FDJ) then I think we may finally hit rock bottom.

Lads, can you take the Rice discussion to his thread, please? This one is to talk about Connor Gallagher, there’s a thread for Rice in the rumours section.

Edited November 21, 20223 yr by RMH

Will Conor see any significant minutes at the WC or will he just get 5 minutes here or there if he is lucky?

On 21/11/2022 at 12:56, RMH said:

Lads, can you take the Rice discussion to his thread, please? This one is to talk about Connor Gallagher, there’s a thread for Rice in the rumours section.

Is already taking up a large part of Gols personal thread already. I get he is bored watching from home with the rest of the Italian players but what is @RIP Mourinhoexcuse? 😉

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Will Conor see any significant minutes at the WC or will he just get 5 minutes here or there if he is lucky?

I hope that he gets some game time if only so that he doesn’t come back out of form. And also, would give Mount a rest rather than him being overplayed. We need Mount on top form if we’re to recover lost ground.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

I hope that he gets some game time if only so that he doesn’t come back out of form. And also, would give Mount a rest rather than him being overplayed. We need Mount on top form if we’re to recover lost ground.

We need Mount and everyone else played in their proper positions for that to happen. That or Kante to make a miraculous recovery and be back at his very best on the 27th.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

We need Mount and everyone else played in their proper positions for that to happen. That or Kante to make a miraculous recovery and be back at his very best on the 27th.

We haven’t seen that for a few seasons, but we can only dream.

8 minutes ago, RMH said:

We haven’t seen that for a few seasons, but we can only dream.

Is it foolish to think we could have an actual decent side with creativity if we played an 11 with players in their preferred positions?

 

Kepa

 

James

Fofana

Silva or Chalobah

Chilwell

 

Zakaria

Gallagher

Mount

 

Ziyech

Aubameyang 

Sterling or Pulisic 

 

?

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by axman2526

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Is it foolish to think we could have an actual decent side with creativity if we played an 11 with players in their preferred positions?

No, because getting players into positions where they can consistently make plays within their skill-set is how you make an effective attacking system. 

Guardiola's City doesn't need Kevin de Bruyne to play impossible defence-splitting passes to create chances. That's the icing on the cake that makes them go from a 80pts team to a consistently 95+ points team. Their system consistently gets lesser creators into positions where they can make simple, easily repeatable contributions. Man City don't have Haaland wide of the penalty area crossing in the air to Phil Foden and Bernardo Silva on 90% of attacking plays.

Our "system" constantly asks way too much of our players - requiring Werner or Havertz to beat players 1 v1, requiring Pulisic or Sterling to beat 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 situations, requiring our better finishers to create chances for our best passers, requiring Lukaku not to be lazy etc. 

That changes when we slot players into their best positions. Get Mount and Gallagher carrying the ball from deeper and working hard to press in midfield, not fruitlessly chasing fullbacks in the corners of the pitch. Get Sterling, our best finisher, in positions to finish moves rather than being the guy making the penultimate pass. Get Reece James and Chilwell crossing to multiple runners in the box, not having to pick a lone forward under 6'.

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Get Mount and Gallagher carrying the ball from deeper and working hard to press in midfield, not fruitlessly chasing fullbacks in the corners of the pitch. 

I hope Potter can by hook or by crook find a way to make it work but I think a tough decision has to be made with Mount or Gallagher at some point. There's far too much of the same strengths and weaknesses on display when both are on the pitch at the same time and it's simply not working in the same way Lampard and Gerrard didn't.

It's not a coincidence their respective best displays (Mount vs Villa/Milan and Gallagher vs Salzburg) came with the other off the pitch.

Going to go on record and say I don't rate Gallagher, and don't think he's got what it takes at this level.

On 24/11/2022 at 10:59, SydneyChelsea said:

No, because getting players into positions where they can consistently make plays within their skill-set is how you make an effective attacking system. 

Guardiola's City doesn't need Kevin de Bruyne to play impossible defence-splitting passes to create chances. That's the icing on the cake that makes them go from a 80pts team to a consistently 95+ points team. Their system consistently gets lesser creators into positions where they can make simple, easily repeatable contributions. Man City don't have Haaland wide of the penalty area crossing in the air to Phil Foden and Bernardo Silva on 90% of attacking plays.

Our "system" constantly asks way too much of our players - requiring Werner or Havertz to beat players 1 v1, requiring Pulisic or Sterling to beat 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 situations, requiring our better finishers to create chances for our best passers, requiring Lukaku not to be lazy etc. 

That changes when we slot players into their best positions. Get Mount and Gallagher carrying the ball from deeper and working hard to press in midfield, not fruitlessly chasing fullbacks in the corners of the pitch. Get Sterling, our best finisher, in positions to finish moves rather than being the guy making the penultimate pass. Get Reece James and Chilwell crossing to multiple runners in the box, not having to pick a lone forward under 6'.

The problem lies on finding balance between offense and defense. 

I wrote a short thread about tuchel 442/352 hybrid and I thought it suit everyone offensively 

Once we reach final third and we have

Jorgi - ruben

Cb - cb

Behind the ball. It is just disaster waiting to happen though

 

Edited November 25, 20223 yr by Bob stark

23 hours ago, Zeta said:

Going to go on record and say I don't rate Gallagher, and don't think he's got what it takes at this level.

I just can't see how he's going to nail down a regular starting spot at CAM ahead of Mount, Havertz and Chukwuemeka, let alone anyone else we might sign ... (Nkunku etc etc)

I think we will end up selling him, perhaps sooner rather than later ... 

Edited November 25, 20223 yr by Sexyfootball

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I just can't see how he's going to nail down a regular starting spot at CAM ahead of Mount, Havertz and Chukwuemeka, let alone anyone else we might sign ... (Nkunku etc etc)

I think we will end up selling him, perhaps sooner rather than later ... 

I don't feel Chuk will make it here long term bar at a push a squad role if he's happy with it, decision making is far too erratic for me. It's gone a bit under the radar but in that Brentford game with his late chance he missed Sterling wide open for a tap in.

I know people will counter with "he's young he's got time" but I can't recall a player having such sketchy decision making turning it round. Moses is one particular example, same final 3rd frustrations in his prime as to when he was "only 21".

4 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't feel Chuk will make it here long term bar at a push a squad role if he's happy with it, decision making is far too erratic for me. It's gone a bit under the radar but in that Brentford game with his late chance he missed Sterling wide open for a tap in.

I know people will counter with "he's young he's got time" but I can't recall a player having such sketchy decision making turning it round. Moses is one particular example, same final 3rd frustrations in his prime as to when he was "only 21".

Carney is 19 though, and only given scraps for minutes. Too early to tell. 

Nkunku arriving worries me. This reminds me of the Havertz move where it is an upstairs call vs recruited by our team. His presence will complicate things as it stands given Mount, Havertz, Carney, and Gallagher occupy the same role. 

I'd keep Mount and Carney (see if he can develop into a winger) and sell Gallagher. Afraid the latter doesn't have the technical ability to play in a side the looks to retain the ball. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Carney is 19 though, and only given scraps for minutes. Too early to tell. 

Nkunku arriving worries me. This reminds me of the Havertz move where it is an upstairs call vs recruited by our team. His presence will complicate things as it stands given Mount, Havertz, Carney, and Gallagher occupy the same role. 

I'd keep Mount and Carney (see if he can develop into a winger) and sell Gallagher. Afraid the latter doesn't have the technical ability to play in a side the looks to retain the ball. 

 

It's not just based on his minutes in the first team also what I saw at reserves and Villa aswell as what I've heard from Villa fans. I hope he's the exception because he's a pretty unique player if he can by hook or by crook sort it out but I've seen it too many times to get too hopeful.

My inklin with Nkunku is that rightly or wrongly he's going to be the new false 9/CF (with Havertz leaving for Bayern and hopefully Auba departing aswell).

I agree re Conor but for a different reason in that I feel him and Mount simply cannot coexist in the same team. Even if he was happy being Mason's backup it makes no financial sense when he can command a decent fee.

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

It's not just based on his minutes in the first team also what I saw at reserves and Villa aswell as what I've heard from Villa fans. I hope he's the exception because he's a pretty unique player if he can by hook or by crook sort it out but I've seen it too many times to get too hopeful.

My inklin with Nkunku is that rightly or wrongly he's going to be the new false 9/CF (with Havertz leaving for Bayern and hopefully Auba departing aswell).

I agree re Conor but for a different reason in that I feel him and Mount simply cannot coexist in the same team. Even if he was happy being Mason's backup it makes no financial sense when he can command a decent fee.

Nkunku as a false 9 is interesting. We will need high goal scoring wingers if that is the case. Assuming Leao is still being pursued. 

 

NEW GK

James Fofana Koulibaly Chilwell

DM

Mount    CM

Nkunku

Sterling                 Leao

 

Edited November 25, 20223 yr by Sconnie Blue

2 hours ago, Argo said:

It's not just based on his minutes in the first team also what I saw at reserves and Villa aswell as what I've heard from Villa fans. I hope he's the exception because he's a pretty unique player if he can by hook or by crook sort it out but I've seen it too many times to get too hopeful.

My inklin with Nkunku is that rightly or wrongly he's going to be the new false 9/CF (with Havertz leaving for Bayern and hopefully Auba departing aswell).

I agree re Conor but for a different reason in that I feel him and Mount simply cannot coexist in the same team. Even if he was happy being Mason's backup it makes no financial sense when he can command a decent fee.

The insane part of this is that Havertz was actually the AM/CAM mainly prior to us signing him. The truth is that he did spend some matches as the CF and as an inside-forward/WF for Leverkusen but what made him a great player was that AM/CAM position that Nkunku plays as well.

So with that recent history, our manger and coaches should be very careful not to make the same mistake twice. Lampard eventually didn't know how to make both Mount and Havertz play together in the midfield but he did start with Havertz as the AM player:

Lampard after Havertz made an assist, won a penalty and scored in that short time period after playing in a 4-2-3-1 as the AM, changed his formation to a back 3 in order to avoid defeat against Man United that at the time was in a good form.

If Nkunku's best position is also just like Kai Havert's best position, then Mount needs to be the one to adapt and play more deeper. Havertz did well as a false 9 during that CL campaign, but ultimately he didn't reach his potential. Now I'm not saying that Nkunku and Havertz are the same type of a player, but I hope that our coaches do more than just what they did to Havertz, "ah this lad so talented and we don't have a proper striker, well let him solve our issues" - this isn't going to work and then fans will say once again that we have a curse for strikers, no we actually don't seek to resolve the problem we just put a new player there and expect that he'll magically perform in the role...

Edited November 25, 20223 yr by Gol15

On 19/11/2022 at 18:41, Gol15 said:

?

?

You literally put a back 3, in front of which is Kovacic and Mount, in front of which is Rice. You seem confused.

That is just build up shape. 

 

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/transfer-news/report-graham-potter-doesnt-want-to-sell-22-year-old-chelsea-player-at-least-two-rivals-want-to-sign-him/

 

Personally ithink gallagher may go further than mount. But  he has yet to definitively show that. He may lack a bit technically but he has the personality to succeed and scores goals. He just needs at chelsea to learn to play a bit deeper which means being a bit more careful in possession. 

36 minutes ago, ozboy said:

Personally ithink gallagher may go further than mount. But  he has yet to definitively show that. He may lack a bit technically but he has the personality to succeed and scores goals. He just needs at chelsea to learn to play a bit deeper which means being a bit more careful in possession. 

Think he's probably the one player we could get the most profit out of. Would be best for both parties. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Think he's probably the one player we could get the most profit out of. Would be best for both parties. 

Agreed, if we're offered enough i think he's easy enough to replace. Christ, Hall is ready and waiting as a CM. 

Man, so Newcastle want Connor, Hakim and Jorginho and we are considering allowing Connor to leave? 
 

that seems to me like that would make the issues in midfield worse, not better. Give them Jorginho… give anyone Jorginho, idc. He’s become too much of a liability 

Edited January 17, 20233 yr by chiefBlueCFC

Hopefully his technical game improves. His energy is very useful.