2 hours ago, big blue said:

Something didnt quite sit right with me for Vlahovic, good player but seems to have flop written all over him, especially for us. 

Where does that leave us though? Bairstow surely wont stay despite reports, Broja is there but apparently Pochettino wants another striker? 

Tricky to see what profile of player he would want, I cant see us spending big money, there arent many of those options left other than Kolo Muani who seems to either psg or staying at Frankfurt anyway. 

Washington has only player 12 senior games, so he will definitely go on loan.

So maybe we get another player that is a bit under the radar, although Datro Fofana surely couldve stayed if that was the case?

Is Elye Wahi or Gift Orban overkill for strikers that age?

Jackson

Broja (Not sure what is happening with him)

Fofana (Loan)

Wahi/Orban?

Anyone else out there? No one seems to want to touch Jonathan David, would it still be possible to hijack Kudus as well as landing Caicedo amd Olise. 

Interesting few weeks ahead. 

 

 

 

Find it interesting no one has gone for Gift Orban this summer, looks like the next big forward. Wahi for me still needs a loan move as his game still needs some polishing. Agree with your sentiments on Washington, still way too early.

The best course of action is to hijack the Kudus move as he can cover for Nkunku, Jackson & Madueke. It’s in our interest and Jackson’s interest that if we go for a No 9 it is someone willing to play a mentor role, and who wouldn’t mind taking a back seat. That isn’t Vlahovic. Someone like Mehdi Teremi of Porto who is 31, available for £25m and is being looked at by both Inter and Spurs, Fullberg at Bremen also fits the bill and Horta from Porto. These guys won’t come for big money or big wages and will be excited to be given a big platform without unsettling Jackson.

8 hours ago, ducavis said:

Find it interesting no one has gone for Gift Orban this summer, looks like the next big forward. Wahi for me still needs a loan move as his game still needs some polishing. Agree with your sentiments on Washington, still way too early.

The best course of action is to hijack the Kudus move as he can cover for Nkunku, Jackson & Madueke. It’s in our interest and Jackson’s interest that if we go for a No 9 it is someone willing to play a mentor role, and who wouldn’t mind taking a back seat. That isn’t Vlahovic. Someone like Mehdi Teremi of Porto who is 31, available for £25m and is being looked at by both Inter and Spurs, Fullberg at Bremen also fits the bill and Horta from Porto. These guys won’t come for big money or big wages and will be excited to be given a big platform without unsettling Jackson.

Teremi always impressed but cant see this board moving for him at 31.

Can see us ending up with Wahi but I'd prefer Orban.

It looks like Kane is off to Bayern. Still uncertain but a strong possibility. Vlahovic and Lukaku could all be in the mix as Tottenham need a striker then. This is just my own thinking. Vlahovic smells like Tottenham striker. 

Tottenham buys Vlahovic, Juventus buys Lukaku. Bob's your uncle.

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Teremi always impressed but cant see this board moving for him at 31.

Can see us ending up with Wahi but I'd prefer Orban.

Tottenham linked with a £26m move for Orban as a replacement for Kane. That is a steal, he scored an hat trick last nite in the Europa qualifiers and now has 25 goals in 25 games.

On 10/08/2023 at 10:49, ducavis said:

Tottenham linked with a £26m move for Orban as a replacement for Kane. That is a steal, he scored an hat trick last nite in the Europa qualifiers and now has 25 goals in 25 games.

Massive step up from the Belgian league to the EPL.

On 10/08/2023 at 10:49, ducavis said:

Tottenham linked with a £26m move for Orban as a replacement for Kane. That is a steal, he scored an hat trick last nite in the Europa qualifiers and now has 25 goals in 25 games.

Not sure their fans will look at it like that. I suspect they will want somebody with a bit of a higher profile. Osimhen is probably out of reach. Kolo Muani could be a possibility I suppose.

13 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Not sure their fans will look at it like that. I suspect they will want somebody with a bit of a higher profile. Osimhen is probably out of reach. Kolo Muani could be a possibility I suppose.

Won’t be surprised if Levy tells their fans they have spent the Kane money already. They have bought Maddison, Van de Ven, Vicario & Veliz for £108m which is a little over the Kane fee.

1 minute ago, ducavis said:

Won’t be surprised if Levy tells their fans they have spent the Kane money already. They have bought Maddison, Van de Ven, Vicario & Veliz for £108m which is a little over the Kane fee.

What a great call. Lol

Given it looks our only chance of shifting Lukaku is doing a deal with Juve where Dusan comes this way the next time the propose a swap I hope we counter with a deal like this:

 

Juve sign Lukaku on a 1 year loan, cover all his wages, no loan fee, option to buy for 40mill euros.

We sign Vlahovic on a 1 year loan, cover all his wages, no loan fee, option to buy for the fee they want, 80mill euros. 

If we trigger our buy option their option becomes a mandatory purchase meaning Lukakus FFP value is fully covered next summer.

Best I can make of it.

16 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Given it looks our only chance of shifting Lukaku is doing a deal with Juve where Dusan comes this way the next time the propose a swap I hope we counter with a deal like this:

 

Juve sign Lukaku on a 1 year loan, cover all his wages, no loan fee, option to buy for 40mill euros.

We sign Vlahovic on a 1 year loan, cover all his wages, no loan fee, option to buy for the fee they want, 80mill euros. 

If we trigger our buy option their option becomes a mandatory purchase meaning Lukakus FFP value is fully covered next summer.

Best I can make of it.

To be fair that does seem like a decent deal for both parties. Not sure if Juventus would accept a deal becoming mandatory on our terms though.
- I'd imagine them wanting it the other way around. 

If they accept to buy him it would be for 30-40m which then would make it mandatory for us to take Vlahovic for 70-80m. 

I could even see them demanding us to put in a clause for either games played or goals to ensure our part becoming mandatory without them having to include the same for Lukaku.

4 goals in 4 games. 
 

Maybe he’s not that awful as everyone on here says. 
 

 

5 hours ago, Sheva said:

4 goals in 4 games. 
 

Maybe he’s not that awful as everyone on here says. 
 

 

I never doubted his ability but it was reported that he has some chronic injury problem and we already seem to have far too many of those in the squad already... Odds are he would have gotten injured in the PL fast while playing for us.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I never doubted his ability but it was reported that he has some chronic injury problem and we already seem to have far too many of those in the squad already... Odds are he would have gotten injured in the PL fast while playing for us.

With our medical department? Their is a picture of them next to the word of incompetent in the dictionary.

13 hours ago, Sheva said:

4 goals in 4 games. 
 

Maybe he’s not that awful as everyone on here says. 
 

 

It’s Serie A

3 hours ago, ducavis said:

It’s Serie A

From an Engish-language Milan journal after Inter tonked Milan 5-1 in the derby yesterday:

Pulisic (4/10): Non-existent, really, in the attacking phase with zero to offer and always laying it off to the nearest man. He couldn’t handle the derby pressure and must do better.

4 hours ago, ducavis said:

It’s Serie A

Never understood this excuse, if Oshimen signed tomorrow everyone would drop their pants. It’s flavour of the month and nothing more.

Also maybe it’s not where they come from and it’s more the environment they sign into that causes the player to perform poorly. 

On 17/09/2023 at 10:53, Sheva said:

Never understood this excuse, if Oshimen signed tomorrow everyone would drop their pants. It’s flavour of the month and nothing more.

Also maybe it’s not where they come from and it’s more the environment they sign into that causes the player to perform poorly. 

Serie A is one of the slowest, more boring leagues about. Played with little to no intensity. 

22 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Serie A is one of the slowest, more boring leagues about. Played with little to no intensity. 

Premier league clubs are still shopping there and also big european clubs like Bayern.

I think it's such a weak excuse to say it's the league and we should look closer to home and maybe think it's the environment we have here that's not giving the best opportunity to get the best out of the players we invest in. Constant changing of the manager is likely a good enough reason.

We have signed players from Brazil and all over europe from far weaker leagues, maybe scouts look at the player rather than the league they are in.

20 hours ago, Sheva said:

Premier league clubs are still shopping there and also big european clubs like Bayern.

I think it's such a weak excuse to say it's the league and we should look closer to home and maybe think it's the environment we have here that's not giving the best opportunity to get the best out of the players we invest in. Constant changing of the manager is likely a good enough reason.

We have signed players from Brazil and all over europe from far weaker leagues, maybe scouts look at the player rather than the league they are in.

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

Edited September 19, 20232 yr by RIP Mourinho

41 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

RLC - Had many injuries here and never had a big run of games apart from maybe under Sarri when he arguably looked one of the better players in the squad. He was always in and out of the team.

Pulisic - He was just as talented as some of the players we bought now and with injuries and being constantly in and out of the team.

Tomori - Probably sold him to early and was never allowed to learn from his mistakes.

Giroud - I think he done the business for us and its likely we sold him too early

The one factor to me that hinders the development of the first 3 players is the constant change of managers, environment and ideas. How many managers did Pulisic have here? 4 or 5? One manager comes in and likes him and then another comes in and doesn't like him.

I think players are talented from Serie A and have enough quality to play in this league,  they are international players. It's just we've been burned in the past because of situations like the attitude of the player (Lukaku) and also the constant changing of managers.

It's a similar situation as Salah and De Bruyne as the manager did not trust them at the time to do well here because we had to win now. There's always been a pressure to do well from the get go here and if you don't you deemed not good enough. One went to Italy and the other went to Germany, both "weaker" leagues and they did well and have now come back to be the best players in the league.

We've spent silly amounts of money on players from Brazil, Ukraine, Holland, USA, Germany and I could go on and to me that just shows they look at the player rather than the league and it's up to the club to set up the right environment for them to come in and do well.

 

 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

More players struggle from Italy than do well. 

RLC, Pulisic, Giroud, Tomori all deemed surplus to requirements are some of the star players in that league. 

City haven't bought a player from that league in 7 windows, Liverpool for 9 windows (other than Arthur on loan who didn't get played).

Obviously there are the occasional outlier but all in all the league absolutely stinks. I was there in February to watch Como and the Milan Derby and the fans are great, the football not so much. Como in Serie B was honestly like watching my local team in Northern Prem.

I stumbled across a Serie C match last night on Sky Calcio. Technically the equivalent of our League One but, cripes, it was ordinary. There are talented players in Serie A but it's hard to gauge their real standard when they are often playing against dross. The PL bottom three or four would tonk the Serie A equivalents.

49 minutes ago, Sheva said:

RLC - Had many injuries here and never had a big run of games apart from maybe under Sarri when he arguably looked one of the better players in the squad. He was always in and out of the team.

Pulisic - He was just as talented as some of the players we bought now and with injuries and being constantly in and out of the team.

Tomori - Probably sold him to early and was never allowed to learn from his mistakes.

Giroud - I think he done the business for us and its likely we sold him too early

The one factor to me that hinders the development of the first 3 players is the constant change of managers, environment and ideas. How many managers did Pulisic have here? 4 or 5? One manager comes in and likes him and then another comes in and doesn't like him.

I think players are talented from Serie A and have enough quality to play in this league,  they are international players. It's just we've been burned in the past because of situations like the attitude of the player (Lukaku) and also the constant changing of managers.

It's a similar situation as Salah and De Bruyne as the manager did not trust them at the time to do well here because we had to win now. There's always been a pressure to do well from the get go here and if you don't you deemed not good enough. One went to Italy and the other went to Germany, both "weaker" leagues and they did well and have now come back to be the best players in the league.

We've spent silly amounts of money on players from Brazil, Ukraine, Holland, USA, Germany and I could go on and to me that just shows they look at the player rather than the league and it's up to the club to set up the right environment for them to come in and do well.

 

 

I can think of 5 players at a push that are probably good enough for a top prem side from that league

10 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I can think of 5 players at a push that are probably good enough for a top prem side from that league

Oshimen, Barella, Dybala, Leao, Maignan, Theo Hernandez, Bremer, Chiesa, Bastoni, Bennacar, Kvaratskhelia just off the top of my head. Most of those are 60-70m+ players and I think that's also a reason why clubs get put off is because Serie A clubs charge at a premium.

But let's say City sign some of those players, their squad is literally the perfect environment to develop and do well in. They have stable management and personal to bring the best out of the player. Everyone looked at Akanji and thought that's a back up signing and now he's one of their better players, he's not recreating that form if he signed for Utd instead.

It's a much higher success rate that those players who are all international players would do well in a better project than an unstable one.

You can say the same for players who have left us over the years and who have gone to premier league clubs and done well. Billy Gilmour is in much better environment now than he was at Chelsea. He has a manager that has faith in him and shows him trust, now he's flourishing, I was someone who was quick to judge him and did not think he was good enough to play at this level.

 

21 minutes ago, Sheva said:

Oshimen, Barella, Dybala, Leao, Maignan, Theo Hernandez, Bremer, Chiesa, Bastoni, Bennacar, Kvaratskhelia just off the top of my head. Most of those are 60-70m+ players and I think that's also a reason why clubs get put off is because Serie A clubs charge at a premium.

But let's say City sign some of those players, their squad is literally the perfect environment to develop and do well in. They have stable management and personal to bring the best out of the player. Everyone looked at Akanji and thought that's a back up signing and now he's one of their better players, he's not recreating that form if he signed for Utd instead.

It's a much higher success rate that those players who are all international players would do well in a better project than an unstable one.

You can say the same for players who have left us over the years and who have gone to premier league clubs and done well. Billy Gilmour is in much better environment now than he was at Chelsea. He has a manager that has faith in him and shows him trust, now he's flourishing, I was someone who was quick to judge him and did not think he was good enough to play at this level.

 

The issue is, and its one that our owners are quickly having the learn to deal with, is that real football isn't like Fifa, where a player has a rating and they are that good. You simply buy the player and they are that good for you too. 

I get your point on having good environments for players to develop but I think its more than that. Some players settle in a country, some players are better at fitting in where they dont have to be the star, some players thrive being the star, some players hate a certain manager, some players love a certain manager. Theres a whole world of human psychology that goes into players being great. Yes the ability has to be there to an extent, but how its applied and used is a whole other world. 

My favourite example is Rudiger and the way he was just completely transformed by Tuchel. Tuchel's personality and approach to the game screamed that Rudiger would thrive. Tuchel took the animal that was in Rudiger and encouraged it, where others had tried to calm him down. I can imagine he would have done the same with someone like David Luiz. You can also say the same for some of Liverpool's squad in the period where they were keeping pace with City. Players like Robertson and Mane, Henderson and Van Dijk all bought in to Klopps game.

But for all of these who buy in, there are players that don't. Minamino is one for Liverpool, you could list numerous for Chelsea under Tuchel, Conte Mourinho, even in the squads that were successful. Even city have had players like Ferran Torres and Kalvin Phillips that didn't stick.

Its not as simply as to say, these players from Serie A would thrive under Pep or De Zerbi. They might, sure. But I would wager that a lot of their recruitment success is born from understanding the type of personality they need to feed into their culture. 

22 minutes ago, Niall1905 said:

The issue is, and its one that our owners are quickly having the learn to deal with, is that real football isn't like Fifa, where a player has a rating and they are that good. You simply buy the player and they are that good for you too. 

I get your point on having good environments for players to develop but I think its more than that. Some players settle in a country, some players are better at fitting in where they dont have to be the star, some players thrive being the star, some players hate a certain manager, some players love a certain manager. Theres a whole world of human psychology that goes into players being great. Yes the ability has to be there to an extent, but how its applied and used is a whole other world. 

My favourite example is Rudiger and the way he was just completely transformed by Tuchel. Tuchel's personality and approach to the game screamed that Rudiger would thrive. Tuchel took the animal that was in Rudiger and encouraged it, where others had tried to calm him down. I can imagine he would have done the same with someone like David Luiz. You can also say the same for some of Liverpool's squad in the period where they were keeping pace with City. Players like Robertson and Mane, Henderson and Van Dijk all bought in to Klopps game.

But for all of these who buy in, there are players that don't. Minamino is one for Liverpool, you could list numerous for Chelsea under Tuchel, Conte Mourinho, even in the squads that were successful. Even city have had players like Ferran Torres and Kalvin Phillips that didn't stick.

Its not as simply as to say, these players from Serie A would thrive under Pep or De Zerbi. They might, sure. But I would wager that a lot of their recruitment success is born from understanding the type of personality they need to feed into their culture. 

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

I never said that players from Serie A would be an instant success here, Im implying that it's a weak excuse that because they play in that league then they are not good enough to play in the premier league. What im trying to say is that we need to give them the best possible chance to do well here, especially if they are younger players.

Over the past few seasons we have not give players the best possible chance to do well here because we are unstable on and off the field.