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We need to ponder our next managerial appointment very carefully...


Butch

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I'm going to shock a few of the regulars, I think, when I say that I am not sure we should be so keen to usher Rafa Benitez out the door.

 

I am well-cognizant of the fact Roman has his eye on Pep Guardiola, and while I cannot deny the lure of sexy football has its attraction, I do have my doubts about whether that can be achieved in the EPL. I certainly don't want us to become the English Barcelona - I hate them with a vengeance. And I think having to watch Pep strut along the Chelsea sidelines isn't going to be much different to seeing Benitez there at the moment. And if Pep cannot do it for us in, gulp, half a season, what then? We're running out of quality managers, and fast. Maybe Pep doesn't even fancy the high risk that comes with the Chelsea manager's position.

 

I wasn't particularly enamored with Benitez during his time at Liverpool, that much must be said. His tiff with Jose, my all-time favorite, just made matters worse. However, I didn't particularly care what he said about us fans. I always felt it was "heat of the moment", and utter cow dung anyway. It never really stuck with me. If you're manager of Liverpool, that is the official line; there isn't much else you can say, and you just hope upon hope that people believe you have passionate, true-to-the-bone fans, while other club's are just plastics. It is so ridiculous as to be pathetic.

 

Take him away from Liverpool and what do you have? A passion-less, but shrewd and methodological manager. He has the personality of Avram Grant, but the footballing pedigree of an Ancelotti or Mourinho. I am not entirely convinced we could do much better. The obvious problem is with the fans hatred of the man and the resultant negative atmosphere. If we can't get past this, I suppose it could be a problem. But I'm hoping that time will heal, and that cool heads will prevail, if Benitez can make us successful, that is. Of course if we continue to stumble at inopportune times and end up empty-handed, the writing would be on the wall. When you are starting at such a disadvantage, it is clear you have to really deliver the moon and stars in order to have a chance.

 

If Pep is really available and interested, there would be no doubt who our manager would be next season. Clearly (and so I am not going to really bother complaining). Or if Jose made himself available and showed an interest in returning to Chelsea, there would still be the big hurdle of Roman's ego, but there might just be a possibility there as well (and I will praise Roman). However, failing these two options, I really hope we think long and hard about our remaining options. While we had not appointed anyone yet after Robbie, I was somewhat against us signing up Rafa, but now that he is here, I am somewhat interested to see what he can do.

 

I really hope it is not another summer of change for change's sake.

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

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If you're manager of Liverpool, that is the official line; there isn't much else you can say, and you just hope upon hope that people believe you have passionate, true-to-the-bone fans, while other club's are just plastics. It is so ridiculous as to be pathetic.

 

 

I have to disagree with this, I don't recall Houllier, Dalglish, Hodgson or Rodgers ever slagging us off, or any other opposition supporters for that matter.

 

It was completely crass.

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I'm going to shock a few of the regulars, I think, when I say that I am not sure we should be so keen to usher Rafa Benitez out the door.

 

I am well-cognizant of the fact Roman has his eye on Pep Guardiola, and while I cannot deny the lure of sexy football has its attraction, I do have my doubts about whether that can be achieved in the EPL. I certainly don't want us to become the English Barcelona - I hate them with a vengeance. And I think having to watch Pep strut along the Chelsea sidelines isn't going to be much different to seeing Benitez there at the moment. And if Pep cannot do it for us in, gulp, half a season, what then? We're running out of quality managers, and fast. Maybe Pep doesn't even fancy the high risk that comes with the Chelsea manager's position.

 

I wasn't particularly enamored with Benitez during his time at Liverpool, that much must be said. His tiff with Jose, my all-time favorite, just made matters worse. However, I didn't particularly care what he said about us fans. I always felt it was "heat of the moment", and utter cow dung anyway. It never really stuck with me. If you're manager of Liverpool, that is the official line; there isn't much else you can say, and you just hope upon hope that people believe you have passionate, true-to-the-bone fans, while other club's are just plastics. It is so ridiculous as to be pathetic.

 

Take him away from Liverpool and what do you have? A passion-less, but shrewd and methodological manager. He has the personality of Avram Grant, but the footballing pedigree of an Ancelotti or Mourinho. I am not entirely convinced we could do much better. The obvious problem is with the fans hatred of the man and the resultant negative atmosphere. If we can't get past this, I suppose it could be a problem. But I'm hoping that time will heal, and that cool heads will prevail, if Benitez can make us successful, that is. Of course if we continue to stumble at inopportune times and end up empty-handed, the writing would be on the wall. When you are starting at such a disadvantage, it is clear you have to really deliver the moon and stars in order to have a chance.

 

If Pep is really available and interested, there would be no doubt who our manager would be next season. Clearly (and so I am not going to really bother complaining). Or if Jose made himself available and showed an interest in returning to Chelsea, there would still be the big hurdle of Roman's ego, but there might just be a possibility there as well (and I will praise Roman). However, failing these two options, I really hope we think long and hard about our remaining options. While we had not appointed anyone yet after Robbie, I was somewhat against us signing up Rafa, but now that he is here, I am somewhat interested to see what he can do.

 

I really hope it is not another summer of change for change's sake.

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

Non sense.

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That's a good level-headed post Butch. No matter how much anyone can agree or disagree, you make some very solid points.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that the position of Chelsea manager is becoming more toxic as we continue to make rash firings because our managers are not getting the instant gratification that the board desires. It is not just the appointment that we need to think about very carefully, it is giving that manager the time and ability to truly shape the team into their mold so to speak. We had an up-and-coming manager with AVB, who was supposed to start this process, but he made a mistake and alienated the locker room (for the most part) which caused a loss in morale, a dip in form, and ultimately led to his firing. 

 

Our next manager is going to need time to put his stamp on the squad. We have a great core foundation of young and exciting players, but each manager has different thoughts of formations, style of play, etc as we all well know. With some of the old guard leaving (or close to leaving), that process could take a bit to implement and unfortunately the chances of us taking a dip in form while that occurs is pretty high.

 

So where does that leave us currently? Let's put aside the vile for Benitez for a moment and look at what is happening on the pitch. Can you tell me that you have seen an improvement on the pitch that warrants Benitez getting the job full time? Comparing a few items to Robbie for a minute... For example, I believe there is some truth that defensively we have recaptured a bit of our discipline under Benitez. The negative to that point is that we have failed in taking advantage of teams that we should very well have beaten or at the very least given it a go (against Fulham is a prime example). Another example would be substitutions. Personally I believe Robbie was better at adjusting and making more "impact" substitutions than Benitez. I just do not see enough results on the pitch that tells me that Benitez is a good choice moving forward.

 

That amplifies when the vile is added back in to the equation.

 

Pep is more than likely a managerial upgrade to Benitez. To be honest, we really do not know since we have not seen Pep manage outside of the Barca system. However if that is what Roman wants, then he will do everything he can to get Pep to come here. And if Pep is interested, then by all means go for it. While I agree with you that I do not want to see us become the "English Barcelona" equivalent (unless we are talking about winning, which admittedly they do a lot of), I certainly feel that Pep as an appointment would be much better than Benitez. And I believe there are a lot better managers out there for us than Benitez. We just have to break our own mold and give our next appointment some time and support. Hopefully we will make the right choice for us.

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Take him away from Liverpool and what do you have? A passion-less, but shrewd and methodological manager. He has the personality of Avram Grant, but the footballing pedigree of an Ancelotti or Mourinho. I am not entirely convinced we could do much better. The obvious problem is with the fans hatred of the man and the resultant negative atmosphere. If we can't get past this, I suppose it could be a problem. But I'm hoping that time will heal, and that cool heads will prevail, if Benitez can make us successful, that is. Of course if we continue to stumble at inopportune times and end up empty-handed, the writing would be on the wall. When you are starting at such a disadvantage, it is clear you have to really deliver the moon and stars in order to have a chance.

 

Where has he demonstrated that he's shrewd? In Valencia, a decade ago? I don't think it was very shrewd to launch that diatribe against Ferguson when Liverpool were in first place. I don't think his conservative, uninspired tactics are very shrewd. He still doesn't seem to understand the concept of making substitutions that aren't like for like. 

 

There are two reasons that I could never accept Benitez, either of which would be sufficient cause for anger at his appointment. The first is that he's a poor excuse for a man. This seems to be where many of our supporters are coming from with their discontent. My second reason is that, his personality and employment history aside, he's really not a good manager at all. 

 

I'm under no illusion that Robbie was one of the best managers in the world (if by "best", we're talking the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Hiddink, etc), but I see no evidence that the FSW is currently his equal, let alone superior. I don't want to rehash all the reasons that his dismissal was abhorrent, because I don't want to turn this into a discussion of Robbie. Even if he never existed and even if the FSW had a personality, I don't think he'd be Chelsea calibre. The thought of having him on for another year because there aren't a lot of quality managers available seems silly to me, primarily because he isn't a quality manager either.

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Some valid points but why would Rafa get better treatment than AVB, Carlo, Scolari or Robbie? He probably has the worst record out of the formerly mentioned and we should love him and cherish him and give him a new contract.

What really makes me feel for Robbie is he defended us the CL and only months after he was clearly informed to play open and free flowing football which actually worked like a charm for a good while. One bad moment and was sacked for a man who every one hates and he reverted us to this defending team again. How is that not messed up??

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Whilst i cannot agree that i would be open to Benitez staying, i am sure that Chippy will be with you.

 

whislt i dont hate the man like some, he has done sweet FA in his time with us so far other than over see us  losing the CWC and likely getting knoecked out of the COC. I would prefer a manager with a lesser CV but who wasnt afraid or timid with his selections.

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Assuming that the interim lasts until the end of the season, then it won't be change for the sake of change, but a straightforward matter of his contract coming to an end and (let's all hope to God) not being extended. We could also assume that the board have another longer term candidate in mind, be it Guardialo, Mourinho or A.N. Other, aka AABB.(Almost Anyone But Benitez).

 

Ok we all know what "longer term" really means in relation to the job of Chelsea manager but for once a change of manager will be a planned change. Not that I'm giving the board any credit here. The principle still stands regarding Benitez. There was neither objective nor subjective justification for giving him the job in the first place, but with the situation as it stands, all we can do is grimace and bear it till the end of the season, hanging on to the twin hopes and not unreasonable expectations that the interim manager doesn't get that contract extension and that for once the board choose wisely when they come to appoint the next "permanent" manager.

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 He has the personality of Avram Grant, and the footballing pedigree of an Avram Grant.

 

 

 

He is to blame for the losses against Swansea and QPR for his team selection - we will never finish in the top 2 with him in charge! - let alone first!

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Some valid points but why would Rafa get better treatment than AVB, Carlo, Scolari or Robbie? He probably has the worst record out of the formerly mentioned and we should love him and cherish him and give him a new contract.

What really makes me feel for Robbie is he defended us the CL and only months after he was clearly informed to play open and free flowing football which actually worked like a charm for a good while. One bad moment and was sacked for a man who every one hates and he reverted us to this defending team again. How is that not messed up??

 

 

Based on his first 12 games he's the worst intierim we've ever had results wise - FACT!

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When you say "WE need to ponder our next managerial appointment ," you use the word WE in the loosest possible sense, presumably.  

 

RA has made it perfectly clear time and time again that it has nothing to do with US the fans, that he doesn't give one good god damn for our thoughts on the matter.

 

I take on board your reservations about Guardiola, but I would rather have Mod and Loz managing Chelsea than Benitez.

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What really makes me feel for Robbie is he defended us the CL and only months after he was clearly informed to play open and free flowing football which actually worked like a charm for a good while. One bad moment and was sacked for a man who every one hates and he reverted us to this defending team again. How is that not messed up??

Absolutely it's messed up, I don't think many are doubting that.

 

I have to disagree with this, I don't recall Houllier, Dalglish, Hodgson or Rodgers ever slagging us off, or any other opposition supporters for that matter.

 

It was completely crass.

 

 

Mate, well boo hoo in the nicest possible way. I agree there are principles but there are so many tears flowing over this I surprised the Thames hasn't flooded. Personally I don't give a f**k what he's said. The Board have got us in this mess and now they can jolly well get us out of it - Laudrup , Clarke, et al will do, but I'm not overly enamoured with a Pep appt.

 

However, I didn't particularly care what he said about us fans. I always felt it was "heat of the moment", and utter cow dung anyway. It never really stuck with me. If you're manager of Liverpool, that is the official line; there isn't much else you can say, and you just hope upon hope that people believe you have passionate, true-to-the-bone fans, while other club's are just plastics. It is so ridiculous as to be pathetic.

 

Which brings me to my point, the tosspot could have said what he liked but I'm really not that thin-skinned it's hurt me beyond measure.

For me it's a bit like the fans who constantly give a player/manager stick but then erupt in fury when that person shushes their lips (a la Liverpool)- I'd have given him stick then as much as he Thought I was plastic.

Overall, I don't fully disagree with the fury of this because positively it has sent a message to the club that we the fans do count. Others outside of the club aren't seeing it that way tho, I believe they see us as whingers but either way I don't want this issue affect the overall team/players or see Roman leaving or go back to old div 2 (cause it wasn't that good) - unlike I believe some do.

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Absolutely it's messed up, I don't think many are doubting that.

  

 

Mate, well boo hoo in the nicest possible way. I agree there are principles but there are so many tears flowing over this I surprised the Thames hasn't flooded. Personally I don't give a f**k what he's said. The Board have got us in this mess and now they can jolly well get us out of it - Laudrup , Clarke, et al will do, but I'm not overly enamoured with a Pep appt.

 

Which brings me to my point, the tosspot could have said what he liked but I'm really not that thin-skinned it's hurt me beyond measure.

For me it's a bit like the fans who constantly give a player/manager stick but then erupt in fury when that person shushes their lips (a la Liverpool)- I'd have given him stick then as much as he Thought I was plastic.

Overall, I don't fully disagree with the fury of this because positively it has sent a message to the club that we the fans do count. Others outside of the club aren't seeing it that way tho, I believe they see us as whingers but either way I don't want this issue affect the overall team/players or see Roman leaving or go back to old div 2 (cause it wasn't that good) - unlike I believe some do.

It's not just about being thin-skinned though. He wasn't exactly popular with Chelsea fans before he made those comments. Even if you're weren't offended or if you're ready to forgive and forget and put personal feelings aside, you're left with the facts of his managerial career. Sacked from his last two jobs, unemployed for almost two years. And I haven't even mentioned the way Robbie was disposed of.

 

Division 2 was all kinds of fun, arguably more so off the field than on the field. But you could say the same of any of the relegation seasons. The football was sh*te but the crack was brilliant.

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Butch with all due respect, you are talking for the minority on here, most of us have made up our minds, no matter what happens when he's here, no matter who is available to come in and take over, we don't want him here full stop.

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"

 

I'm going to shock a few of the regulars, I think, when I say that I am not sure we should be so keen to usher Rafa Benitez out the door.

 

I am well-cognizant of the fact Roman has his eye on Pep Guardiola, and while I cannot deny the lure of sexy football has its attraction, I do have my doubts about whether that can be achieved in the EPL. I certainly don't want us to become the English Barcelona - I hate them with a vengeance. And I think having to watch Pep strut along the Chelsea sidelines isn't going to be much different to seeing Benitez there at the moment. And if Pep cannot do it for us in, gulp, half a season, what then? We're running out of quality managers, and fast. Maybe Pep doesn't even fancy the high risk that comes with the Chelsea manager's position.

 

I wasn't particularly enamored with Benitez during his time at Liverpool, that much must be said. His tiff with Jose, my all-time favorite, just made matters worse. However, I didn't particularly care what he said about us fans. I always felt it was "heat of the moment", and utter cow dung anyway. It never really stuck with me. If you're manager of Liverpool, that is the official line; there isn't much else you can say, and you just hope upon hope that people believe you have passionate, true-to-the-bone fans, while other club's are just plastics. It is so ridiculous as to be pathetic.

 

Take him away from Liverpool and what do you have? A passion-less, but shrewd and methodological manager. He has the personality of Avram Grant, but the footballing pedigree of an Ancelotti or Mourinho. I am not entirely convinced we could do much better. The obvious problem is with the fans hatred of the man and the resultant negative atmosphere. If we can't get past this, I suppose it could be a problem. But I'm hoping that time will heal, and that cool heads will prevail, if Benitez can make us successful, that is. Of course if we continue to stumble at inopportune times and end up empty-handed, the writing would be on the wall. When you are starting at such a disadvantage, it is clear you have to really deliver the moon and stars in order to have a chance.

 

If Pep is really available and interested, there would be no doubt who our manager would be next season. Clearly (and so I am not going to really bother complaining). Or if Jose made himself available and showed an interest in returning to Chelsea, there would still be the big hurdle of Roman's ego, but there might just be a possibility there as well (and I will praise Roman). However, failing these two options, I really hope we think long and hard about our remaining options. While we had not appointed anyone yet after Robbie, I was somewhat against us signing up Rafa, but now that he is here, I am somewhat interested to see what he can do.

 

I really hope it is not another summer of change for change's sake.

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

Shrewd? The pedigree of Mourinho?

 

Are you sure?

 

When you said the Interim was "shrewd" I started shaking my head. When you said he has the pedigree of Mourinho I wanted to shake yours.

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It's not just about being thin-skinned though. He wasn't exactly popular with Chelsea fans before he made those comments. Even if you're weren't offended or if you're ready to forgive and forget and put personal feelings aside, you're left with the facts of his managerial career. Sacked from his last two jobs, unemployed for almost two years. And I haven't even mentioned the way Robbie was disposed of.

 

Division 2 was all kinds of fun, arguably more so off the field than on the field. But you could say the same of any of the relegation seasons. The football was sh*te but the crack was brilliant.

 

Agreed... and I was there when we were sh*te. I'm far less concerned about the man's petty comments than his team rotation, his ineptitude, his lack of passion for the club - compare him to Jose, who, as he said, wore the shirt and FELT a part of Chelsea - his seeming lack of real warmth and empathy with the lads, his yes-man yet self-serving personality and his recent managerial CV.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the way Robbie was disposed of yet either.

 

The only thing I will question is the "Division 2 was all kinds of fun, arguably more so off the field than on the field" which, if you mean what I think you mean, is far from how I feel. If I've misunderstood you I apologise from the heart.

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A good reasoned topic....................... BUT!!!

 

Taking away Benitez as a person, I just don't believe he's a very good manager, I think he was a good a manager, but his time has passed.

 

The lack of options is what makes the next choice tough though. I'm not overly enamoured with Pep, the Spanish league is a very different beast than the English League, that sexy football may be good on the eye but it doesn't bring success, just look at Arsenal.

 

People talking about Luadrup, need to have their heads read, so far he's had minor success with small clubs, if he can turn that into genuine success with these clubs then he can be touted for a job with a bigger club.

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It's not just about being thin-skinned though. He wasn't exactly popular with Chelsea fans before he made those comments. Even if you're weren't offended or if you're ready to forgive and forget and put personal feelings aside, you're left with the facts of his managerial career. Sacked from his last two jobs, unemployed for almost two years. And I haven't even mentioned the way Robbie was disposed of.

 

Division 2 was all kinds of fun, arguably more so off the field than on the field. But you could say the same of any of the relegation seasons. The football was sh*te but the crack was brilliant.

 

Totally agree with this, yeah the football was pretty piss poor, but we had a laugh, and were pretty much winning every week, which for me was something unusual.

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Anyone but Rafa. He will never take our club forwards. Look at what he did at Liverpool, they are still trying to recover now.

Did provide them with some very good youngsters though that are now breaking into the team.

 

I think they were already breaking apart from within to be honest but that topic is for another time perhaps.

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Was it Rafa who got those young players in or the scouts at Liverpool?

Rafa was the one who wanted to replace Alonso with Barry!!!!!

 

Judging from the transfers that was made before Rafa joined Liverpool, I would be very surprised if it was the scouts. Not to say they didn't have an imput but it was mainly Rafa, I think. 

 

Hindsight, I can't recall whether Barry was good or not back then but there must have been a reason for it.

I think those youngsters were brought in AFTER Rafa

 

Anyway he'd never get to control the purse strings here. - No manager has since Jose 

Vast majority of them were from Rafa, such as Suso, Sterling, Shelvey, Kelly, Flanagan, Spearing and Pacheco. Even the ones who came through the academy such as Wisdom benefited from the input Rafa had over the academy. 

 

Ironically he was awful at utilising youngsters (Still is by the looks of things) but had a decent eye for them.

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