Quite obviously a City fan on a wind up

 

So you've clearly recognised that I've been praising other players and are now going full retard. Brave choice. I'm excited to see how this goes.

I'm starting to lose my support to him, we didn't pay 30m for a player that only running and helping defense, we got Ramires for that. 

I'm starting to lose my support to him, we didn't pay 30m for a player that only running and helping defense, we got Ramires for that. 

 

If it helps, he might only have cost £25 million. So that's not quite so bad is it?

I personally think Blue Daze just has an opinion on Mikel and Willian, which is fair enough.

 

I do believe both players are really lacking. Nothing wrong with that. Willian was poor today, if he doesn't get any slack from people on this forum then it's a shame. He isn't doing enough for the side, and I will give him some credit, when things were going our way he was decent, but that's all it ever really is, nothing more than that.

 

Like I said before, if you sum up on average how many goals and assist Willian would get if he played every game, you wouldn't expect a big figure. He's a good player no doubt, but is it really enough? Personally I think he gets far too much game time on that right side, we need more rotation, Schurrle isn't doing himself many favours that's true but I wish we put more faith into him than we do Willian, at least Schurrle brings more goals and assists to his game.

There is a difference between having an opinion and having an agenda.

The fee is largely irrelevant.

If it helps, he might only have cost £25 million. So that's not quite so bad is it?

 

Doesn't matter, he doesn't reach the requirements.

Edited January 1, 201511 yr by IliyaKrostin

The fee is largely irrelevant.

 

Not in a world where FFP exists and every penny is counted. It's about using your resources as effectively as possible, something we do expertly in so many areas.

 

What it means is that a fee of £25 million (even if it's amortised over the life of the contract) is anything but irrelevant. 10 years ago you were correct because Roman could just spend more without restriction. That isn't the case now.

There is a difference between having an opinion and having an agenda.

 

But what is his agenda exactly?

 

I have seen him credit Mikel when he plays well, just because he still doesn't rate him doesn't mean he has an agenda, it actually just means he sticks by his opinion. I wish more posters were like that instead of fickle. Fickle might be a harsh word to describe so don't take that the wrong way, but what I mean is sticking to your opinion isn't a bad thing as long as you do credit the performances he put in. I am the exact same, I might not bring it up as much but I don't rate Mikel, I haven't for about 5 years. However I think he has done well and I wish he played today but I still stick to my belief of him not being what we need. I really do believe we could do with an upgrade and I've been saying it for years, it's not really an agenda.

 

If he had an agenda he wouldn't be giving Mikel any credit, same goes for Willian, Willian deserves the criticism today and I hope it's made some people realize that he isn't performing up to standard. Perhaps that's just my opinion but it seems to be just Hazard and Fabregas doing all the work these days in attack.

Not in a world where FFP exists and every penny is counted. It's about using your resources as effectively as possible, something we do expertly in so many areas.

What it means is that a fee of £25 million (even if it's amortised over the life of the contract) is anything but irrelevant. 10 years ago you were correct because Roman could just spend more without restriction. That isn't the case now.

I agree, he's not worth £30m, but we can't change the fee so I see little point in continually citing it.

Edited January 1, 201511 yr by Davey Baby

I agree, he's not worth £30m, but we can't change the fee so I see little point in continually citing it.

 

True. 

 

But it just raises the level of expectation on him. Salah was a punt, barely registering on the books and we could probably flog him for a small loss.

 

Willian's price puts him in a certain level of player that he will be judged by. Unfortunate for him but true.

But what is his agenda exactly?

 

I have seen him credit Mikel when he plays well, just because he still doesn't rate him doesn't mean he has an agenda, it actually just means he sticks by his opinion. I wish more posters were like that instead of fickle. Fickle might be a harsh word to describe so don't take that the wrong way, but what I mean is sticking to your opinion isn't a bad thing as long as you do credit the performances he put in. I am the exact same, I might not bring it up as much but I don't rate Mikel, I haven't for about 5 years. However I think he has done well and I wish he played today but I still stick to my belief of him not being what we need. I really do believe we could do with an upgrade and I've been saying it for years, it's not really an agenda.

 

If he had an agenda he wouldn't be giving Mikel any credit, same goes for Willian, Willian deserves the criticism today and I hope it's made some people realize that he isn't performing up to standard. Perhaps that's just my opinion but it seems to be just Hazard and Fabregas doing all the work these days in attack.

The constant attacks on Willian.

Cahill, Ivanovich and Matic all directly at fault for Tottenham goals tonight and far more worthy of criticism. JT also didn't cover himself in glory but, apparently, the biggest faults always to seem to lie with Mikel or Willian.

The constant attacks on Willian.

Cahill, Ivanovich and Matic all directly at fault for Tottenham goals tonight and far more worthy of criticism. JT also didn't cover himself in glory but, apparently, the biggest faults always to seem to lie with Mikel or Willian.

 

But that is just one perspective, don't you see, Ivanovic and Matic have delivered it all season, arguably our best players no matter what some think of Ivanovic. Cahill has been off and he has been getting a lot of stick on the forum, check the match day threads for that.

 

As for Willian it's not really attacks, it's just criticism, he doesn't do enough for the side, Blue Daze has been saying that from the start, I myself not so much but I do genuinely believe his point is being proven after each passing game. Games like this we need other players to turn up, when can we ever rely on Willian? Also how useful was his work rate today? Not very was it.

Willian is underrated by our fans sadly.

Blue Daze has to be a troll. Slags off every current Chelsea player yet is over the moon that Lampard is playing well for City. Ban the idiot.

Hold on a second, you have slagged off Cahill, Oscar and Willian yourself so you can't really say much. I don't see you praising any Chelsea players.

Willian is underrated by our fans sadly.

 

This coming from the guy that said Boga would be a better choice than Willian.........

As has been said, there's a difference between some criticism and an agenda.

ok

Edited January 1, 201511 yr by Guanches

If Hazard gets injured our title ambitions are over IMO. Willian, Salah, Schurrle, even Oscar, nowhere near his level. Willian is a starter every week and so deserves criticism because he never assumes responsibility. He never takes centre stage. There is no conviction to his attacking play. He has quality even if he had a bad game today but he doesn't hurt opponents, and that's the biggest criticism you can make.

If Hazard gets injured our title ambitions are over IMO. Willian, Salah, Schurrle, even Oscar, nowhere near his level. Willian is a starter every week and so deserves criticism because he never assumes responsibility. He never takes centre stage. There is no conviction to his attacking play. He has quality even if he had a bad game today but he doesn't hurt opponents, and that's the biggest criticism you can make.

As a willian fan this is the thing I have to agree with. He seems to have all the moves, just doesn't go for it

@ Slawth last post ∆

True perspective would see that same leeway given to all players. Willian included, and though you dont mention them he has had games where he has been as crucial to us getting a result. Maybe not as Hollywood as Hazard or Oscar, but crucial nonetheless.

Personally I will support all Chelsea players, unless I perceive from their on-pitch efforts and body language that they are not giving 100% to the cause every time they pull on the shirt. Hence my utter loathing for Torres.

Edited January 1, 201511 yr by just

Scott that was heat of the moment stuff, I was angry at that moment. I didn't mean it.

 

Heat of the moment or not, there must have been some meaning to it or you wouldn't have said it.

Just because I feel Boga has better aspects to his game than Willian doesn't mean I think Willian is a bad player, because Boga is an exceptional talent himself. What I meant and should have elaborated was that at this particular moment willian should be taken out of the firing line. Even Jose agrees but dosen't trust the other wingers so sticks with him.

But that is just one perspective, don't you see, Ivanovic and Matic have delivered it all season, arguably our best players no matter what some think of Ivanovic. Cahill has been off and he has been getting a lot of stick on the forum, check the match day threads for that.

 

As for Willian it's not really attacks, it's just criticism, he doesn't do enough for the side, Blue Daze has been saying that from the start, I myself not so much but I do genuinely believe his point is being proven after each passing game. Games like this we need other players to turn up, when can we ever rely on Willian? Also how useful was his work rate today? Not very was it.

Ive probably been one of Ivans biggest supporters since day 1,  Ive been saying for years what I only notice becoming a popular opinion now, that he is one of our best and most consistent defenders if not players ( I mean its between him and Terry as defender).  Yet this season, on purely defensive terms, he has been hugely disappointing compared to previous seasons.  I dont know if this is because JM wants him to push up more, but he is no longer Gandolf issuing "thou shall not pass" orders anymore.

 

Willian had a poor game, but I could come up with a list of players who were worse today.

If Hazard gets injured our title ambitions are over IMO. Willian, Salah, Schurrle, even Oscar, nowhere near his level. Willian is a starter every week and so deserves criticism because he never assumes responsibility. He never takes centre stage. There is no conviction to his attacking play. He has quality even if he had a bad game today but he doesn't hurt opponents, and that's the biggest criticism you can make.

 

That is the scariest part isn't it really.

 

That is kind of what I mean by our attacking quality, I think it's by some distance off Man Cities, and this could turn out really crucial from the title race. We are now halfway through the season, we are level on points and top of the league alphabetically.

 

Can't underestimate City anymore, they have much better depth than we do and more creative and attacking players. If Hazard is injured, sadly you're right I think the title is over for us.

Ive probably been one of Ivans biggest supporters since day 1,  Ive been saying for years what I only notice becoming a popular opinion now, that he is one of our best and most consistent defenders if not players ( I mean its between him and Terry as defender).  Yet this season, on purely defensive terms, he has been hugely disappointing compared to previous seasons.  I dont know if this is because JM wants him to push up more, but he is no longer Gandolf issuing "thou shall not pass" orders anymore.

 

Willian had a poor game, but I could come up with a list of players who were worse today.

 

Barry I couldn't agree anymore, his defensive side of the game has not been good this season. But he is also undroppable for a reason, he has been crucial to so many of our attacks down that flank and never gets the praise he deserves.

 

Today was easily the worst game I've ever saw from him that comes to memory, we've seen him have some shockers, Swansea game in league cup semi comes to mind for instance but he got absolutely turned inside out today. There are a few players that shouldn't play next week, and Cahill and Ivanovic are definitely two of them.

 

But it's not about who was the worst today, it's about going onwards, Willian hasn't contributed enough this season to attack, defensively he has been exceptional besides this game of course. But we should be looking to put more faith into Schurrle, Willian might have played better this season, but Schurrle is the better attacking player by some distance, I wish we just shown the faith we put into Schurrle than we do into Willian. It's not like Schurrle isn't a work horse, that's false, he was known before he came here as a hard worker and he still is.