I think we are all agreed on that. The worry is, whether he has it in him to do so - does he actually have another level or what we have seen up to now - is that basically it?

He has shown glimpses of another level, and its not that long ago he was getting man of the matches with SME very good displays. But he is far to inconsistent and really needs to produce more and more often.

Does anyone remember Willian's performances for Shakhtar against us a few years ago? He was all over the place, making things happen, displaying creativity in abundance, that's probably what initially sparked our interest in him. Wish we could see that type of play for us on a more consistent basis.

I think we are all agreed on that. The worry is, whether he has it in him to do so - does he actually have another level or what we have seen up to now - is that basically it?

 

Based on what he's done here, I don't know. It's not like he doesn't get chances and he's scored a couple of crackers but he's already 26 and the most goals he's scored in a season is 8 in the Ukraine.

 

People think I have an agenda against him and Mikel and they're similar players to me. They're both tidy footballers but neither one takes responsibility, steps up, grabs the game by the scruff of the neck, whatever you want to call it. If the team is playing well then they'll get carried along but they're never going to be the players who drag the team through the tough times.

Does anyone remember Willian's performances for Shakhtar against us a few years ago? He was all over the place, making things happen, displaying creativity in abundance, that's probably what initially sparked our interest in him. Wish we could see that type of play for us on a more consistent basis.

 

Salah was good against us as well if I recall correctly, and that hasn't turned out very well either.

Even if we remove his output thingy aside, he just doesn't contribute much in attacks he barely causes trouble in final third or oppositions half, or threaten them with creativity or trickery. That guy is just a mindless runner who can only run and retain ball imo.

 

There are players like Iniesta, Silva, Modric, Kroos etc.. these guys also doesn't have great outputs, but the attacking threat they pose are miles ahead of Willian hardly poses any threat.

 

And people defend him because he's good defensively, it's just a myth. He's bad defensively, he just runs and runs that's it.

Defensive work and running the whole game tirelessly are two other things. He isn't good defensively.

 

Argue that he isn't good enough because he doesn't produce enough in the final third but he isn't bad defensively. His excellent defensive work is constantly analysed and pointed out by pundits, regularly making tactics high up the pitch and breaking up attacks.

Edited January 2, 201511 yr by RichardCFC

Defensive work really? I think he gets praised because he runs everywhere on the pitch. His defensive work isn't that great imo. It's just the ground he covers makes it up for his defensive work.

 

Oscar is the one who does the defensive work, makes tackles, interceptions and everything without running like a madman.

Does anyone remember Willian's performances for Shakhtar against us a few years ago? He was all over the place, making things happen, displaying creativity in abundance, that's probably what initially sparked our interest in him. Wish we could see that type of play for us on a more consistent basis.

 

That match is a bit hazey in my memory now but I do seem to recall he was outstanding against us and by far the best player on the pitch - causing us loads of problems. We do seem to make a habit of signing players who have one or two decent games against us. Torres, Willian, Salah and KDB are all recent ones. none of which have turned out very well.

Argue that he isn't good enough because he doesn't produce enough in the final third but he isn't bad defensively. His excellent defensive work is constantly analysed and pointed out by pundits, regularly making tackles high up the pitch and breaking up attacks.

 

This is clearly what Jose likes about him. He gives energy to the midfield, and his ball retention is good. This allows players like Hazard more time to get into key pockets of space high up the pitch. One statistic I personally hate is the assist one, this to a large extent is meaningless as it takes in no account of the build up play prior to the goal. Costa's goal yesterday was a prime example.... Hazard did all the work, Oscar gets the assist.

Defensive work really? I think he gets praised because he runs everywhere on the pitch. His defensive work isn't that great imo. It's just the ground he covers makes it up for his defensive work.

 

Oscar is the one who does the defensive work, makes tackles, interceptions and everything without running like a madman.

 

Don't agree with that. Trust me I actually prefer Schurrle and would even like us to buy a new right winger, but Willian's defensive work is still good.

So it appears that the better a player plays against us, the less good he is. Ronaldo and Messi (several other examples) have rarely delivered against us. Salah, Willian and even Aaron Lennon (again many other examples) have looked like world beaters against us. What does this say about Harry Kane?

Don't agree with that. Trust me I actually prefer Schurrle and would even like us to buy a new right winger, but Willian's defensive work is still good.

I dont want Schurrle either, but I think there is more chance of him to score/assist than Willian. 

So it appears that the better a player plays against us, the less good he is. Ronaldo and Messi (several other examples) have rarely delivered against us. Salah, Willian and even Aaron Lennon (again many other examples) have looked like world beaters against us. What does this say about Harry Kane?

 

Sign him up Jose? 

That match is a bit hazey in my memory now but I do seem to recall he was outstanding against us and by far the best player on the pitch - causing us loads of problems. We do seem to make a habit of signing players who have one or two decent games against us. Torres, Willian, Salah and KDB are all recent ones. none of which have turned out very well.

that is why we bought him, but in a jose team that gets coached out and defensive duties are coached in, and with brana at RB, f**k knows we need that!

The excuse cannot be made that willian hasn't had a run in the team, as he's a regular starter now. I think José's anally rententive "track back" tactics are not allowing our creative players to fully express themselves, which is probably why the likes of oscar, willian, salah (although he hasn't been given a fair shake) and schurrle are not living up to their full potential. I don't think willian was clinical at shaktar tbh; it was mainly a few stand out games, whereas salah has gone from a dangerous player for basle, and the top player in the swiss league to absolute sh*te.

The excuse cannot be made that willian hasn't had a run in the team, as he's a regular starter now. I think José's anally rententive "track back" tactics are not allowing our creative players to fully express themselves, which is probably why the likes of oscar, willian, salah (although he hasn't been given a fair shake) and schurrle are not living up to their full potential. I don't think willian was clinical at shaktar tbh; it was mainly a few stand out games, whereas salah has gone from a dangerous player for basle, and the top player in the swiss league to absolute sh*te.

it's jose,lumbers the flair players to much defensive duties, just let the attackers attack, and do SOME defensive work!

it's jose,lumbers the flair players to much defensive duties, just let the attackers attack, and do SOME defensive work!

 

Because it's really held back Hazard and Fabregas hasn't it.

If we're now arguing that the attacking players have too many defensive duties and should be allowed to focus on attack more then we really should let Schurrle have a run of 5-8 games in the team without subbing him off early, a courtesy Willian has had.

It would be interesting to see how much of a difference it made to our attacking play but also the consequence on our defense, especially if Ivanovic isn't bombing forward with free license.

If we're now arguing that the attacking players have too many defensive duties and should be allowed to focus on attack more then we really should let Schurrle have a run of 5-8 games in the team without subbing him off early, a courtesy Willian has had.

It would be interesting to see how much of a difference it made to our attacking play but also the consequence on our defense, especially if Ivanovic isn't bombing forward with free license.

I think if Schurrle is to start, that must be a condition.  I'd like to atleast see Schurrle getting brough on at the 60th regularly, I think thats when he has the most impact.  I think its no coincidence that Schurrle did so well as a sub in Brazil, the conditions were perfect for tiring players who had started allowing Schurrle to do what he does best.  For me he disappears to much to just be given a run of games, unless he starts proving he had can have an influence even when not scoring. 

 

Willian isnt Makelele or Matic, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better defensive winger who can play at this level.  That he just runs around is pretty nonsense even if that is 80% of the job for his position defensively, just running and closing down space/eliminating options.

 

Perhaps they should have to bunk with each other.  Schurrle teaching Willian to take the shot on/be direct and Willian helping him with his dribbling/retaining possession/defensive work rate.  As many have stated, they would make a good hybrid if we had the technology!

This is why we bought willian i thought?

 

Edited January 3, 201511 yr by croydonblue

Notice it has willian goals!

problem is, the quality of defenders in the EPL is A LOT stronger than in russia. He may be able to humiliate opposing players there, but here it's not so easy.

Notice it has willian goals!

 

Four of them or did I miscount? That's about how many he scored in 2013.

 

Lots of stepovers and running into blind alleys as well.

Just diving in on the calls for Schurrle to get more time etc.. While he sure can score goals the biggest problem I see with him is that he makes a lot of passing mistakes, cant do that at this level. he needs to improve there or go.

Willian adds so much energy and creativity to the team, he is an inspiration to all. He's a keeper. 

 

Willian adds so much energy and creativity to the team, he is an inspiration to all. He's a keeper. 

 

Energy yes. Runs around a lot.

 

Creativity, absolutely not. 

 

I agree that Schurrle has looked sloppy but he has more end-product than Willian. He needs a run of games because Willian really hasn't done enough.

Almost every day I visit this thread to read the new posts, and almost every day those posts are the same as the day before.

 

Of course it's good to have discussions going but I don't see this going anywhere.

 

 

Carry on.